Hi, sagers. When I took the digital LSAT in July, we weren't given stylus pens, so I wrote a note to LSAC and they agreed to send their own note to any school I apply to saying the test center made a mistake, and I felt good about that because I did end up canceling my score. But yesterday, we started 2 hours after the ticket time (how much is reasonable to expect? 2 hours seems excessive and it did make me a ton more anxious) and then had a false start: The director said, "OK, we will now begin the tutorial. Please press start." We pressed start and the real test began! So we lost about 30 seconds because people were yelling, "Wait, this is the real test! Stop it! Start it over!" and whatnot. There was also an incessant squeaking/beeping noise in the room near my desk, which I mentioned to administrators, but they couldn't figure out what was causing it. So at the end, one of the administrators told me that they will be sending a note to LSAC about the delay and the false start. He also told said they'd send another note that I specifically was distracted by a noise they couldn't stop. My question is, do I follow that up with another complaint e-mail to LSAC today or do I just leave it alone? I wouldn't want admissions people to think I'm a "problem test taker" or a complainer! But I do think there's a discrepancy between the test experience I've anticipated and paid money for and the actual experience I've had. Thank you for reading and pretty please advise if you have an informed opinion on this! #help
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The waiting is already kinda killing me, though, if we're being honest. My husband and I got our lease renewal today...and because of me...we have no idea where the ideal place is for us to live based on where I'm going to start school. Anyone have a crystal ball? Patience is the superpower I would choose if someone were handing them out. How will I get through this?
do it! i highly recommend their admissions and essay consultants!
Hi, friends. I had this bookmarked so I wanted to reach out about my 0L prep in case anyone else is there now and looking for ideas on the matter.
I want to preface this by saying that I believe all of the law students and professors who have said there's no real way - and no real need - to prep for law school. I am positive that every 1L class is professor-specific, including the topics they focus on, which parts of those topics they emphasize and the writing style they prefer based on their past model exam answers. I get why people recommend just goofing off or enjoying the months leading up to it, especially because the workload will be so intense one you're out of the gate.
All that said, I feel the way @ felt when he started this post. Only more so. I've also had the privilege of tons of extra time for the whole process. I finished grad school in 2004 and became a newspaper editor. I was a good student and I loved it, but it's been forever. And I'm the kind of person who plans and prepares big-time. The earliest I'll start is May (Cardozo May entry), and otherwise it will be September.
When I decided to go to law school three years ago, a friend of mine (179 LSAT, shit you not) who graduated from Columbia in 2006 told me she wished she had read Planet Law School by Atticus Falcon (pseudonym). (I have no relation or stake in his books or ideas.) The latest version was written in 2003, but I can't imagine 1L classes have changed that much in the past 20 years. I mean, of course they have changed in practical ways like taking notes and exams with our laptops, but the core concepts, and how to think, write and evolve as a lawyer? Those seem fundamental. The book is massive. But not really. And the thing is, it emphasizes how professor-specific each course will be. It's more about how to be a good law student no matter what. I was so excited that I read the 820 pages over about a month in 2018. It's also a book about what books to get. And boy is it a big list. I am NOT recommending anyone do this whole list or cram for law school. I'm just saying, here's what I'm doing, because again, I had the privilege of extra time.
These books pair nicely with the 7Sage Law School Curriculum, and if it's a choice between the books and 7Sage, stick with 7Sage.
One thing I learned from the LSAT is to never obsess. I'm taking these lessons with a grain of salt, really just because I'm so curious about the law and I want to get my feet wet with the concepts. I know the real learning begins when I meet the professors. I'm not holding myself to any strict deadlines, and I'll never get through it all by April, but at that point I'll put the books away (saving them to consult once I know what my real courses are like) and party for a week in New Orleans. I'm also reading my dad's Stephen King books because he had so many, and I'll never read them once I start law school.
So I'm sorry to write such a long post on a 5-month-old thread, but if anyone wants to continue this on a new thread and read some of these books with me, hit me up. If you all just think I'm a complete nut after this, well that's a risk I'm finally willing to take. Just know I have no reason to share this other than to offer ideas. Most of these are available used and relatively cheap on Amazon. I splurged for the "Like New" ones.
Delaney: Learning Legal Reasoning (finished)
Learning Criminal Law as Advocacy Argument (finished)
How To Do Your Best on Law School Exams (finished)
Aspen: The Law of Torts (Glannon) (finished)
Contracts (Blum) (finished)
Constitutional Law--National Power and Federalism (May & Ides)
Civil Procedure (Glannon)
Property (Burke & Snoe)
ABA: The ABCs of the UCC, Articles 2 and 1 (in that order)
Phew. Our friend Atticus also recommends getting ALI Restatements for Contracts and Torts, but I regret that and see it as overboard. He also suggests getting a CALI Library of Lessons Account and checking out the LEEWs CDs. That I'm dabbling in.
In my specific case, getting on GW's WL so early is a good sign, since I'm exactly at their median GPA and 10 whole points below their median LSAT. I know that every school has a different philosophy, but I think (and pray) that means that my chances at the schools where my LSAT is closer to their median are pretty good. Even though we all know those two numbers are the starting point for every school, I'm confident that the softs do matter, and that showing our enthusiasm and passion can sometimes go a long way. I, too, submitted my LOCI, and it was received warmly, but I'm not counting on GW accepting me. But it's different because they are not my top choice, either. Your chances @ don't only depend on your application, they now depend on everything else that happens down the line, with the folks that have already been offered acceptance. We're living in a particularly volatile time, so my gut tells me we're in for a long ride this cycle, and it will only make us crazy to guess. One thing to consider, too, is that I don't think students admitted from the waitlist get much, if any, money, since they will have handed it all out to the already-admitted students. I could be wrong, and I'm not trying to bum you out, but for me, that is a huge consideration.
Hi, J.Y. Just wondering if you have an ETA on the results. It's a nice distraction from waiting to hear back from schools. :smile:
I've only heard back from one of 14 - - waitlisted at GW. But with my stats. that's actually really good news -- a sign that my application is fairly strong. I'm a New Yorker, but I applied to some other good schools in the Northeast just to make sure I have options. I'm smiling a big smile that a few of you responded. We're in this together now :smile:
I am juggling all of those things too, so I completely get it. Feel free to PM me.
I have to respectfully disagree, @. For me, the LSAT was much harder. I'm here for you if you want any app advice. Otherwise, do let me know once they're in so I can congratulate you!
Anyone else trying to come to terms with how to stay calm and patient while we to see how all of the pieces of the puzzle will come together? Want to tell jokes and make each other feel good for coming this far? I'd be happy to start a small group of people who want to just compare notes and share a toast when anyone gets any good news. Anything to keep me from obsessively checking my statuses. I love this community. Let me know.
Please remember to take it easy this week. If, like me, you woke up this morning after crazy test dreams, with a headache ~ take today off. Only light studying from now on...we're prepared, we're awesome...and we're NOT going to blow it with burnout. Cheers.
Just checking :)
Hey, friends. I'm deciding very soon which 7Sage admissions package to get, and if anyone out there is willing to discuss your experiences with it, I'd be so grateful! Please send me a message if you're willing to share briefly. Thanks :)
on pins and needles about tomorrow?! I have to actively try to think about anything and everything else.
We're looking for the NA.
P1: When a driver is talking on her cell, the person on the other end of the call can't see if her driving conditions become difficult.
P2: If the driver is instead talking to a passenger, the passenger is usually quiet or can help by warning about any difficulties.
Therefore, talking on a cell while driving is more dangerous than talking to a passenger.
What absolutely HAS to be true?
E ) Talking on a cell is no more dangerous than talking to a passenger who continues to talk during difficult driving situations. This is certainly not our NA since our conclusion is about talking on a cell being MORE dangerous, especially because the continuing to talk could be the passenger providing helpful warnings.
D ) If a passenger's helpful warnings are just as likely to distract the driver, this actually weakens our argument.
C ) Don't give a hoot what the drivers believe.
B ) Of course driving is less dangerous if the driver isn't talking to anyone, but that's not what we're comparing.
A ) For this argument to hold up, we have to assume that speaking to a driver during a difficult driving situation increases the danger (ie, risk of accident), the one exception being (unless) the person she's speaking to is providing helpful warnings. Bingo. I overlooked this AC at first because it's asking us to infer that since the person on the other end of the call can't see the difficult driving situation, they are going to keep talking. But I guess that's a small enough and fair enough inference.
Email the admissions office of the school. They all handle it differently.
I would add that there are some of us who never quite get the LSAT score we want and can feel crushed after getting a similar score several times. If, and only if, that happens to you, I HIGHLY recommend the 7Sage Admissions Consulting package. It has been well worth it for me so far, but I will update everyone when I start finding out about decisions.
Is anyone else developing a crazy love/hate relationship with Autofill in the apps? It's nice to have certain fields populate, but man, be careful because it can create mistakes if you don't watch it like a hawk.
Does anyone else thing AP questions are getting harder? I chose D for this because it reads more like a clarification - or even a necessary assumption - than direct support for the conditional conclusion. #help
Admin note: edited title; please use the format of "PT#.S#.Q# - [brief description]"
First decision! Hopefully, it's a good sign. If anyone else gets a waitlist email from GW, let's connect. Quick turnaround!
Now that I'm starting at Cardozo (yay) in May, I'm tossing the Stephen King books. LOL. And I'm glad I mostly got all the way through Contracts and Crim Law since I'll be starting with those classes. Now I'm only going to finish Getting to Maybe and read How To Do Your Best on Law School Exams and that's more than enough.
Hi! Also just double-checking that you got mine since there's something anticlimactic about merely hitting save.
Feeling a headache today, which is reminding me to send positive vibes and wish calming, clear thoughts to everyone. Let's remember to lighten the study load this week, breathe, slow down and stay confident. We are superstars, and we're going to knock it out of the park!
In at Temple today too! Hopefully Cardozo is next :blush:
Thanks so much for continuing to do these! Just a note that it doesn't say 9pm here, but I'm so glad it's a time that I can attend. Cheers!
Reposting, hoping someone feels me on this: If we do all the work upfront, then the questions will fly by.
If we do all the work upfront, then the questions will fly by.
You guys, this is my new mantra. So simple, but so hard to grasp. I've been watching videos of terrified me ~ staring at answer choices for way too long and hesitating for what looks like an eternity ~ and it hit me! If we do all the work upfront, then the questions will fly by. JY has told us this, but we have to live it and learn it. This mantra may just save my ass on June 3. All together now, "If we do all the work upfront, then the questions will fly by!"
Anyone else taking it at the tourist nightmare hotel across from Penn Station?
Please hit me up if you were recently accepted too and considering it. Exciting news :)
Hey, sagers. For those of you over this hump, I'm seeking advice as I approach my retake on Oct. 28. The Sept. test, 88, which just dropped, is basically the only fresh material for me at this point, so I'm glad I'll have the chance to take it this Sunday. But, I've heard it's actually a good idea to refrain from scoring and reviewing the final PT before the real deal because if I do well (yay!) I'll be confident, but if I suck (boo!) I'll be terrified. I retook 87 today, which I haven't spent much time with since June and did OK, so the alternative plan would be to focus on BRing the heck out of that one and spending the rest of the week doing single sections, reviewing my notes and chilling out to get in the right mindset. Please advise if you can. I love 7Sage so much, but I can't wait for this journey to end!
The site is down! This was the day I had planned to start applying to schools. So this is really frustrating. But now I see that it's probably because it's also LSAT score day. Time to meditate.
... and waitlisted today. But it's not a top choice for me, so I'm fine with it.
Even though conditional logic seemed easy when I went through the CC, it continues to trip me up on harder questions, so I'm reviewing some basics:
To have a valid conditional statement, the SOME or MOST statement must come first followed by the ALL statement. (You can't conclude ANYTHING if the ALL statement comes before a SOME or MOST statement.) So A some B->C, therefore A some C is valid. Also A most B->C, therefore A most C is valid.
In a valid argument, the conclusion must be true. Basic valid argument examples include affirming the sufficient (A->B, A, therefore B ) ; denying the necessary (A->B, /B, therefore /A); transitive property (A->B->C, therefore A->C).
Other valid arguments show us instances where one thing (A) arrows out to two other things and there's therefore overlap between those two other things:
If A->B and A->C, then B some C.
If A->B and A some C, then B some C.
If A->B and A most C, then B some C.
If A most B and A most C, then B some C.
Invalid arguments mean the conclusion doesn't have to be true. Examples include affirming the necessary (A->B, B, therefore A); denying the sufficient (A->B, /A, therefore /B), and putting the ALL statement before the MOST or SOME statement (A->B some C, therefore A some C OR A->B most C, therefore A most C).
Other invalid arguments show us that we can't conclude anything from 2 some SOME statements:
A some B some C, therefore A some C (transitive property does NOT apply to SOME statements)
A most B most C, therefore A most C (transitive property does NOT apply to MOST statements)
A some B, A some C, therefore B some C.
You cannot take a contrapositive of a SOME or MOST statement.
Quantifiers have specific meanings on the LSAT that are often counterintuitive. Some is the trickiest one because it means at least one, but could be limited to one, and could go up to all. Be suspicious 😒 of ACs that use any variation of some, such as sometimes and somewhat. Always ask, “just one??” Many sucks too because is the same as some; it is not MOST. Few means some are, most are not. In most cases, we're talking about 3 or 4, but we can think of the range as up to 50 because more than that is MOST.
Logged onto LSAC today and was able to switch my Oct. test center from God-forsaken Newark to a hotel near Penn Station. Head's up - limited availability.
Schools are taking a long time this cycle. I applied Sept. 24 and went under review on Nov. 3.
In case this helps anyone:
When down to 2 ACs that weaken an argument to 2 different degrees, pick the one that matches the degree of the conclusion.
When down to ACs that provide sufficient and/or necessary conditions that could serve as the missing link (SA), pick the one that clearly triggers or fails something. If it's a mystery, that doesn't help at all.
Don't second guess yourself when only one AC is right. If all other ACs have been confidently eliminated, flagging that question will only cost you valuable time.
When down to 2 ACs that both mention the key word or concept you know will be in the correct AC, only one is in precisely the right context. Make sure the key element is performing/describing the correct thing.
If you're confused when piecing together a list of facts, some with numbers, some with %s, give the situation real round numbers and apply them to the contending ACs. Don't mistake many for most. Many could be some, which could be a different subset from some other some. (Some historians claim X, many historians are wrong - do not assume overlap.) Some can mean just one.
When looking for a NA in an argument that strikes you as just plain weak, say to yourself, "Within the universe of this shitty argument, which AC points out something that matters, something that absolutely has to be true or else the shitty argument has no leg to stand on in the first place?"
When 2 ACs have the proper conditions to satisfy what MBT, pick the one that matches the stimulus in terms of what is sufficient versus what is necessary. Don't get turned around by the language. What is literally required? Put everything methodically into S->N. Don't overthink.
Parse out the conclusion of convoluted arguments. Sometimes it's just stating that an action will lead to a goal, the NA is that it's possible for said action to lead to said goal.
With parallels, remember sentence order NEVER matters and logic order ALWAYS matters. Be sensitive to distinctions such as "any" versus "one instance."
When there's no obvious explanation for a phenomenon in a RRE, look for an AC that would push one element of the equation in the particular direction that would provide an alternative explanation of the phenomenon. Do NOT give in to bringing in outside bias (such as generic costs less than brand names).
Don't let ACs bait you into "attacking" or "rethinking" a premise - you must assume all premises are completely true no matter what. Period. You are only trying to attack the manner in which the premises "prove" the conclusion. Never pick an AC that merely restates a premise. That's not even good enough for PSA. It does NOTHING.
Never settle for, pick or eliminate an AC you don't understand. Never help an AC out and try to make it fit the mold of a particular flaw. ONLY pick it if it makes total sense.
Be sensitive to WHILE as a conclusion indicator. While X (concession), really Y (conclusion).
Argument parts sometimes can be assumptions or denials of assumptions. Label them as you go.
Don't assume the exact same number of people need to be tested in an experiment. Pay attention when a stimulus starts to compare apples to oranges (or bone samples to blood samples).
Be sensitive to subtlety. (Saying it's wrong for a country to diminish prosperity isn't the same as saying it's wrong to hinder the growth of prosperity.)
If you're spending too much time stuck between 2 ACs, SKIP, read again on Round 2 with the rest eliminated.
Always bear in mind that just because someone claims, says, believes, thinks something does NOT make it one of the things in the stimulus that we accept as true. Accept what the author says. Everything else is suspect.
Thanks. And you'll never believe this, but I just got the merit scholarship email, and it's 11pm! These guys must be working from home and their kids are asleep :wink:
I got accepted to UConn today, and it's Sunday. Who knew that was possible?
Anyone else get an email of postponement? I'm trying to figure out if this is a new thing unique to this cycle because of the sheer volume of applicants. Instead of waitlisting me, they said my decision is going to be delayed until February and reviewed a second time. Please let me know if you're joining me in this peculiar boat.
Thanks for your response @
It's possible I'll be starting school in May (please accept me already, Cardozo!), but if not I'll be starting in August, so I'm going to keep casually reading all of the above books and updating this post when I finish them. You, and any other Sager, are welcome to chime in any time you're ready, and I'd love to have discussions about them. But no pressure. I'm treating this whole list as a no-pressure, casual experience. But for the most part (except for maybe Contracts), I'm really into the material!
I added "Getting to Maybe." And I even finished "The Running Man." No, I don't think Stephen King is preparing me for law school. I just want to read for fun to start getting used to the idea of reading a lot, all the time. And it may be the last time I read for fun for a long time.
thank you so much. it was worth holding off on the champagne until after the session. long live democracy!
Can't wait! :smile:
Just in case it helps anyone’s spirits, I struggled for 3 years with the LSAT and never got a high score. But I got into my top choice school and got straight A’s my first semester. Now I just have to keep my foot on the gas pedal.
I'm wondering if it would do any good to e-mail LSAC about the fact that at my center (CUNY LIC), we were forced to wait in a single-file line silently for an hour and a half before starting the test. The proctor said that the "new rules" stipulated that we had to write out the identity certification sentences on our admission ticket and sign and date them in front of her individually. Because of this we didn't begin until 2pm. Does this matter? It's hard to say how much if affected me, but I do know that I timed my morning perfectly in terms of a workout, meditation, breakfast, bathroom time...and this hour and a half delay was an enormous bummer that threw me off my game at least a little. If enough of us write in, would anything be done? Could it reflect poorly on me to complain? I guess it can't be done anonymously since it would be coming from my e-mail address? Any advice is appreciated.
I've been on here so long that I'm not sure if any of my study buddies are still here, but I will share some things I learned, in case it's helpful. I decided more than 3 years ago to go to law school to pursue a second career. (Note: Make sure you're not deciding IF you want to go to law school, but that you ARE going, before you even start the LSAT process.) My diagnostic was 148 and after studying with Powerscore, I scored a 152. Enter Loophole, Trainer and the entire 7Sage course (more helpful than all of the books), and I still NEVER scored above a 155. Was I working full-time as a managing editor? Yes. Did I score way higher on the PTs? Yes. Did it hurt me that I did too many PTs (quality over quantity, folks) and sometimes gave myself extra time on them? Definitely! Don't do that! As awesome as I was at the Games after I'd already done them once, the anxiety around facing fresh Games on each real test was just too overwhelming. That's where I lost points every time. But the reported score is all that matters. Except it's not! What matters is that I learned not to obsess. I'm passionate and diligent about studying, but it almost took over my entire life, and then I simply didn't let it. And I had so many luxuries: plenty of time, a master's in journalism, mad years of work experience (15) and a decent GPA (3.7). I also had the support group that this Forum provided me. I also workshopped my essays for a whole year. And if you're in any situation remotely similar, I highly recommend the Unlimited Admissions help on here. It has been a tremendous help, every step of the way (in fact, we're still not done). It's worth every penny. It really is true that you're more than your score, and here's proof (in reverse order of how much I wanted to attend):
Rutgers - Accepted ($$)
Temple - Accepted
GMU - who knows, who cares at this point
Loyola (LA) - who knows, who cares at this point
BC - WL - giving up my spot
UConn - Accepted ($)
St. John's - Accepted
GW - WL - giving up my spot
BU - Rejected
Brooklyn - Accepted ($$)
NYU - Rejected
Columbia - hasn't got around to rejecting me, but I'm not delusional
Fordham - WL (not quite giving up my spot yet just in case something crazy happens)
Cardozo - ACCEPTED YESTERDAY ($) and starting in May
Trust 7Sage. Get some experience. Get the highest score you can on this beast, but don't obsess. Don't let it take over your life. Take care of yourself. Do your research. Cast a wide net. Follow the wise words of Dean David Martinidez: “Do your own version of ranking specific to what is important to you. Why? ... Be passionate and pursue passions. Let us know how our school will benefit by admitting you."
Just reviving this post again to say that even though it seems like nothing exists besides the LSAT, the only time that E&E books really help is before you start - especially since that's the only time you'll have time for them. The Law School Explained videos on 7Sage are superior, but for those who like actual books, these Aspen E&Es are a good companion. They are for sale, and they did help me get good 1L grades. PM me if you're interested:
The Law of Torts (Glannon) 6th edition
Constitutional Law--National Power and Federalism (May & Ides) 3rd edition
Civil Procedure (Glannon) 8th edition
Property (Burke & Snoe) 6th edition
Quick question: Should professors use our first names in LORs or is that considered too informal? @help
Hi! I'm just wondering if anyone knows when the last 3 videos on Torts in the Law School site will go up? I'm awaiting them :)
Woo-hoo! Only one more to go!