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alexmedley502
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Hey everyone! This website and forum are amazing and have been very encouraging. So here's my story: I have been very slow at studying for the LSAT. I completed university (BA and MA), worked in social services for two years and dropped everything to study LSAT. I gave myself from August - December to do the Dec LSAT, during which I read the Powerscore books once, studied awfully without Blind Review until I came across 7sage in early November and by that time, burnout began to kick in. I have now fully gotten into the 7sage way of studying but I became burned out before the December test and didn't prepare as thoroughly as I could have. My diagnostic was at a 147 (low, I know) and I have only recently gotten into the mid-high 150s. I applied to Ontario law schools for September 2017 and am thinking of taking the February LSAT. Logic Games is my worst section followed by Logical Reasoning, I'm surprisingly decent at Reading Comprehension and am typically -5 (still room for improvement though). Is it worth it to take the February LSAT and take it in June if I don't do well? I am hoping to get at least low 160s. Or should I just get a refund and take the June LSAT to give myself more time. I just feel very rushed right now and know I can improve drastically after learning how to BR properly and after doing the fool-proof method for the LG section. I know these problems are insignificant but I just need some advice lol

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Wednesday, Mar 29 2017

alexmedley502

LR - Where to go from here?

Hey 7sagers! I am wondering if anyone can provide me with some advice on where to go from here in LR...

LR might be my worst section and I am having so much difficulty improving. It's not that a particular type of question gets me (in fact I tend to actually be better at the more technical lawgic based types like flawed parallel method of reasoning), it just seems that I am getting the majority of the answers wrong from questions 15-22 across every section. Often times I will misunderstand the stimulus or I will understand what the stimulus is implying and what to pick in the answer choice but will get confused about the wording in the answer choices and end up picking the wrong one. Note: English is my first language, I read extensively and have an MA degree and wrote a thesis paper. Is there any way to improve, or is it simply a matter of doing a ton of LR questions?

I have gone through the CC once and paid close attention to every different type of LR question while taking extensive notes, but it was a couple of months ago. Would a refresher be useful? I also have every LSAT from PT 1-75 and the accompanying Kaplan Explanations, so I began doing sections from early PTs untimed while taking notes on my computer to map out my reasoning, but am not seeing results, although it is still early (I have only done about three sections).

Any recommendations on where to go from here? Everyone provided me with amazing LG advice and I have been doing very well in that section so thank you to anyone who is reading this who helped me in that area, it feels great and I can confirm that the fool proof method is sound.

I will also be joining in the online study group for PT 70 this Saturday!

Thanks!

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alexmedley502
Wednesday, Feb 28 2018

I felt like it was easier than many of the practice tests I did and that I should score my average or higher... So if I score lower it will be crushing :(

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alexmedley502
Monday, Nov 27 2017

@ said:

So, way back in May when I first took my diagnostic, I got a 138. I remember seeing my score and feeling my heart completely drop. What made it even worse was way before I got on 7sage, I kept reading other forums about how it's practically impossible to raise your score up anything beyond 11 points in a short period of time.

I decided to just keep at it. Went at it full time. I dedicated at least 40 hours a week to it, if not more. I still felt like it was an impossible task though, but I figured I had to get the full 11 points, if I was going to try. Sometime in August, though, I stumbled upon the 7sage forum and it was seriously the greatest thing that has ever happened to me. Someone on the discussion page had mentioned that the test is really doable and you can definitely learn how to master it.

So, with the last bit of energy I had left, I sat in for the test in September and restrategized for the test in December. I was PT-ing at 151 before I sat in on the Sept test. Took it, then took a week off after. Knowing I hadn't reached my full potential, I went back to it a week after. I refused to cancel my score. I wanted to know how much test anxiety would affect me. I got a 149. Which, considering from where I started from, it wasn't too shabby.

I kept at it though. Got my third 160 today on my practice test. I still have room for improvement (especially with logic games), but I can't thank this site enough for all the energy and motivation it's given me.

I'm taking it on Saturday, but by then I'm going to push for another jump in my score. Someone kept telling me it was an impossible jump to hit 160, but I can't wait to prove them wrong.

If you're in my boat, keep chugging along. You get what you put into this test. If you aren't willing to learn from your mistakes, you're not trying hard enough. Every bit counts. I've given up a lot of social gatherings, so it's definitely been a struggle but go on more runs, do yoga, meditate and find a way to keep your mental health intact.

Sign up for the core classes, get yourself the powerscore books, and stay committed. If you work hard enough, you'll thank yourself when you get your acceptances. As someone once told me, "as long as you don't quit, you'll succeed".

Hope this helped ease some anxiety for Saturday!

Great job! What would you say was the biggest thing that helped you in your jump from PTing at 150 to 160?

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alexmedley502
Monday, Mar 26 2018

If you can try writing at McMaster. They have small rooms, lots of desk space and it is very quiet there. I have written there twice.

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alexmedley502
Wednesday, Nov 22 2017

I'm aiming for February but want to be fully prepared by mid-late Jan, so each day I have been doing fool-proofed sections. I start off by fool proofing the games from the sections I did yesterday and one week ago, then do a fresh section from the later series timed. I score it, put it aside, log the progress and wait to fool proof it tomorrow. I focus the remainder of the time going over any games I am having difficulty with based on my previous performance. I log the performance in each section and have a spreadsheet going on. I have found this to be the most time efficient way of honing in on weaknesses and practicing timed sections, while not burning myself out. In total it takes about 3-4 hours per day at the most. Well worth it.

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Saturday, Jul 22 2017

alexmedley502

Back to the Drawing Board...

Hi 7sage!

After spending the last 3 months or so focusing intensely on LR and RC and making great improvements... I feel like I lost some of the momentum I had going with the logic games. Between January and April I fool-proofed PTs 1-25 and now am having similar difficulties as to when I started doing timed logic games (i.e. misreading rules, making careless errors, being generally slow in identifying inferences)... I am going back to basics and redoing the entire LG portion of the CC and am going back to foolproofing and will tackle games that gave me difficulty from 1-25 and will foolproof 25-35 in the coming weeks. Any other recommendations? I'm feeling nervous that maybe I wasn't progressing as quickly as I thought I was with the foolproof method and maybe I was just redoing games that I was already familiar with and that was where my success came from... Any advice would be much appreciated. Love this forum, love the LSAT!

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Tuesday, Feb 21 2017

alexmedley502

More Fool Proof Method Questions

Hi everyone! Sorry if this is redundant. I have been going at the fool proof method for about 2.5 weeks now and here is what I'm finding and where I am struggling:

  • I am finding that I am slightly over time and typically -2 to -3 when I do a tackle a game, which is a major improvement from when I first started but still not close to where I want to be
  • I am often able to get all inferences and perfect when I go through the game 3-4 times on the first day, perfect and all inferences on the day after in one to two tries, but then when I go back to the question in a week, it is often the same result as my first try on the first day. What should I do in this case? If I repeat the process I will be just completing the same questions over again with a huge back log, what did you do to overcome this?
  • Also, how long did it take you to master the games to a point where you felt comfortable and how did you balance studying for the other sections? I am hoping to take the test in June but am willing to push it if I am not averaging my target score by then (160-163, I am a mature Canadian student). Should I be focusing on other sections while doing LG every day up until the exam?
  • Thanks!

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    alexmedley502
    Monday, Nov 20 2017

    https://classic.7sage.com/question-bank/

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    Tuesday, Sep 19 2017

    alexmedley502

    Drilling LR Strategy

    Hi everyone,

    Sorry if this was mentioned somewhere before, like maybe in the CC, but I am really looking for an LR study strategy that is as thorough and ordered as the LG fool proof method (which I have began applying to RC using PTs 1-35)...

    My average for LR is -10 to -11 timed and -6 to -7 in BR. I have done four full PTs and the analytics tell me that Flaw and NA are my worst areas. However, I have done a number of LR sections and had the same results with no clear pattern of question type that sticks out. Now, I have done the CC for LR twice at this point and really don't want to do it for a third time. Especially since I feel I have made improvements since doing it before (especially in relation to conditional logic.)

    Some have told me just to drill different question types but I'm not sure what that means... How do I put them together? Do I start by doing them timed and then do BR? How many should I do and how often? If anyone has suggestions on how to design a structured and targeted LR study strategy, similar to the LG fool proof method, it would be greatly appreciated...

    If any tutors are reading this, I am considering employing one to help me for the December and/or February LSAT - I definitely have to apply for this cycle, I have been at this almost full-time for one year now.

    Thanks!

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    alexmedley502
    Friday, Nov 17 2017

    @ said:

    I feel like a lot of LR argument based questions really focus on the support between the premise and conclusion. When eliminating answer choices, ask yourself "does this really weaken/strengthen the premise/conclusion relationship? A lot of the answer choices won't actually directly impact your premise/conclusion relationship. In my mind, when reading answer choices I constantly say so what? how does this help/break the argument?

    I'm not sure if this is making sense, but the conclusion and the premise are key. I find that a lot of answers can be eliminated by just looking at the relationship between the conclusion/premise.

    You honestly just need to find a way to understand that every argument based question will have type of flaw. You already know that. Now the question is: how do I weaken it? How do I break this argument? What assumption is this argument based off?

    I would recommend listening to the podcast LSAT Thinking Episode 53. I would skip the first bit where they talk about star wars though... But this podcast really forced me to take a different approach when tackling LR questions. It's safe to say that this podcast helped me go from -8 on BR to -3. Sometimes it's just about perspective.

    Good luck!

    Awesome! I am totally going to check out that podcast. Are there any other episodes you would recommend that you found helpful for LR? Probably a more constructive use of down time compared to the podcasts I normally go to (i.e. Chapo Trap House, This American Life... lol)

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    alexmedley502
    Friday, Nov 17 2017

    Maybe misidentifying the premise and conclusion. I'd also guess a general misunderstanding or misreading of the stimulus before attacking the answer choices. Are you paraphrasing the question as you read it so you can understand it in your terms and not get thrown off by the purposely intimidating language in LR? How are your conditional logic diagramming skills (i.e. do you know your Groups 1-4 off by heart? Can you separate the context from the argument in your diagramming?) Also, how is your understanding of various argument flaws and valid argument forms? I actually am struggling in the same areas as you are and this is what I'm focusing on to maximize my LR potential and it seems to be working. On top of these things, we also have to practice timed sections so we develop a solid skipping strategy and not wasting time on questions that are time sinks :)

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    alexmedley502
    Wednesday, Jan 17 2018

    I don't think focusing time on reading and figuring it out and skipping are mutually exclusive. For each question in LR you MUST read the stimulus and understand how the premises support the argument, or just the overall point of the stimulus if there is no conclusion. I personally don't use that 25-26 questions in 25 minutes method because I believe skipping that fast and leaving only the 4 to 5 level difficulty curve breakers to the end will result in lots of careless errors and misinterpretations of the stimulus on easy questions. What I try to do is set benchmarks, like if I have completed the first 10 questions in 10-11 minutes, it often means I'm in good shape. If I can get to the last five questions and still have 10 minutes remaining, rare but doable, that is the most optimal situation.

    Also, I have found that reading the question stem is helpful, especially on Main Point questions because you can just underline the phrase and find it in the passage. For example, if you begin reading the stimulus and it's a seemingly complicated stimulus about science, you may begin to get hung up over the intricate details - not that they're unimportant necessarily - before realizing in the question stem that it's a Main Point question.

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    alexmedley502
    Friday, Mar 16 2018

    Mine is up! Hoping to hear from Osgood or anyone at all very soon

    Hey guys,

    I am in the middle of the fool proof method, working on all logic games from PTs 1-39. In the beginning I was just skipping the miscellaneous games because JY would say "you don't need to worry about this, you won't encounter it on a modern-day LSAT etc." However, after exploring the question bank and different types of questions it appears that there are very difficult miscellaneous games recently (especially with the virus game last October). So I'm wondering how closely I should be reviewing these miscellaneous games and I guess I am answering my own question as I type this... so I guess my real question is how were your experiences with miscellaneous games after using the fool proof method? How closely did you focus on them? Did you find that the lessons you learned from the more common types helped prepare you? I find my speed and accuracy, along with my understanding of sequencing, in/out, grouping games and grasp of conditional logic are all increasing at a normal rate, but then I get totally discouraged when I can't even do a miscellaneous game in under something like 20 mins.

    I also just want to thank everyone who posts on here, I am going at this 6-7 hours per day, some days are better than others and when I'm at my lowest I usually go on here and am just constantly reassured that I am normal and so many other people have been in the exact same situation I am in... the only solution is to keep pushing forward.

    Thanks!

    I dreamed of one day being able to make one of these posts...

    In mid 2016, I quit my job, moved back home and began pursuing my path to getting into a Canadian law school. I had completed a 4 year honours BA in 2011 and an MA in 2013. Upon graduation, I began a job in the social services that was rewarding but very low paying and ultimately unfulfilling in regards to my broader goals pertaining to social justice. For two years I worked this job while struggling to make ends meet living alone in a big Canadian city. In the summer of 2016, I made the decision to leave my job and begin pursuing law school, which had been in the back of my mind since beginning undergrad.

    I began studying for the December 2016 LSAT in late August of that year in my parents' basement. I took a part-time research job with a professor from my alma mater, which I only thought would last for a few months to a year at the most. Despite my best efforts and having read the PowerScore Logic Games and Logical Reasoning books cover to cover (huge waste of time), I still couldn't pull off a score higher than 145 by the time late October rolled around. Panic and anxiety clouded my judgment as I clumsily threw together many poorly written and unfocused personal statements mere days before the November 1 deadline for applying to law school. When the test date rolled around, I knew I was doomed but something compelled me to write it. I walked out of the test with my head pounding and knew I had failed. Why I didn't cancel my score, I have no idea, but it accurately reflected how I felt walking out of the test... 145. I realized how poor my approach was and the extent of my mistakes once I discovered the 7sage forums...

    I discovered 7sage shortly after writing the Dec 2016 LSAT and began doing the core curriculum. I would spend the entirety of 2017 on 7sage and doing research for my part-time job remotely... all from my parents' basement. My girlfriend was living in another city with her parents and we had to commute to see each other this entire time. I kept thinking I was getting better at the test but would only improve in small increments. I kept booking new LSAT test dates and then cancelling them one or two months before the date. Eventually, I settled on a drop dead date of February 2018 to get in for September of that year. I had a mini breakthrough and began scoring in the mid 150s by December of last year. I eventually got a tutor from 7sage (shoutouts to Daniel). I spent all of January doing prep tests and thorough blind reviews. My triumph was hitting a 160 and my low point was scoring a 150 two weeks before the test date. I wrote the Feb 2018 LSAT and felt much better walking out of the testing room. My partner and I took a long planned three month vacation to travel throughout South East Asia two days after the test date. I remember reading my score in an airport in Laos... 156. I was elated. Even though I didn't hit a 160, I had told myself previously that I would settle for anything above 155 in hopes that my age, work and academic success would make up for it.

    Between March and August of this year, I must have checked my application pages to the four law schools I applied to in excess of 2,000 times. I knew the LSAT scores were delivered late for the Feb 2018 test and wondered how this was going to impact my chances. Once May rolled around I learned I was waitlisted for U of Ottawa and this excited me. I was sure I was going to get in because the year before, the majority of those on the waitlist ended up getting accepted, according to lawstudents.ca. One week later, I was waitlisted for Windsor... I got this in the bag, or so I thought. My hopes were crushed significantly upon finding out my place on the waitlist in late June for Ottawa... 221/298. Devastating. I began dashing any hopes of going to law school and began thinking about career opportunities in my field of research.

    I really hunkered down for the 2019 application cycle. I arranged for a second strong academic reference and the professor from my alma mater, whom I am still working with presently, wrote an exceptional letter of recommendation about the work we had done together since 2016. My personal statement was now clearly worded and well-focused. I submitted my applications but without high hopes after having such a negative experience in the previous cycle. The past two months were miserable, as I faced the prospect of unemployment in the near future as my research grants are coming to a close. I had essentially given up on the idea of becoming a lawyer and was certain that I would not get accepted this cycle, similarly to last. However, on Tuesday night I learned that I received admission to the University of Ottawa for next September. I was so elated that tears streamed down my cheeks.

    My partner and I are moving to Ottawa in September and I will go to law school. Even though I felt like I was in a rut for the better part of two years, this all makes it worth it. So for anyone who is struggling, doing PTs, and feeling like they are going nowhere in their pursuit, I encourage you to keep going and don't give up. If I can do it, you can. This was long but brief in relation to how my life has been for the past two years so I encourage you to ask me any questions about LSAT prep or admissions that you may have and I'd be happy to share my experiences with you.

    Thank you for reading

    tl;dr - spent two years studying, writing LSATs, finally got a decent score this year, but ultimately was rejected last cycle, got depressed, applied one more time not thinking i would get in, got into law school this week

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    alexmedley502
    Monday, Nov 13 2017

    Make some flash cards

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    Sunday, Mar 11 2018

    alexmedley502

    OUAC and Feb 2018 Score Updates

    Just wondering if any 2018 Ontario law school hopefuls have had their OUAC profiles updated with their February score? Mine’s not showing and just want to see if it’s the same for everyone and if so, when they’re usually up by. Thanks!

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    alexmedley502
    Thursday, Nov 09 2017

    Making the flashcards as I type this. I should probably make some for valid and invalid argument forms as well. These will be the first flashcards I have ever made in my life. I also never thought I would be waking up at 5:30AM every weekday... This test really changes you, man.

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    Thursday, Nov 09 2017

    alexmedley502

    Applying Valid / Invalid Argument Forms in LR

    Hi everyone,

    I'm just wondering if anyone has any advice, resources or recommendations on how to sharpen one's skills at recognizing valid / invalid argument forms in the LR sections. I know there is lots about this is in the core curriculum but it's mainly within the context of formal diagramming lawgic-type methods. I feel like this is giving me trouble in Flaw, NA/SA/PSA question types which are my worst along with Strengthen and Weakening questions. I can actually get Parallel Method of Reasoning (Flaw and Regular) questions because of how basic the structures tend to be, but usually only in blind review. I'm basically terrible at every type of question that involves being critical about and analyzing the merits of an abstract argument :( Any help would be appreciated!

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    alexmedley502
    Friday, Dec 08 2017

    The curve breaker questions for both are difficult when the answer choice is acting like a shield for an argument that slightly strengthens or weakens. For cookie-cutter, I'd say weaken are easier. Your task is better laid out for you.

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    alexmedley502
    Wednesday, Nov 08 2017

    @ said:

    @ said:

    Over my last couple of ptests I have scored in my goal range for one (ex -4) and then like 5 below that (-10). It's really hurting my score. I was wondering if anyone has had experience with this problem and if there was a solution for it. It's frustrating because I know what my potential is and I am not even close on one LR section to it.

    I can't find the link right now, but LSAC administered a public document years ago explaining that they have a formula to gauge how hard the test is (specifically, how hard each section of the test is, on a scale) and the total difficulty of each test is supposed to add up to about the same number across the board.

    For example, if one test's LG is significantly harder than the previously administered test, than at least one of that test's LR or RC will be easier than its predecessor. LR is no exception. That is why, typically, one LR section is considered "objectively" harder by LSAC's standards almost every time. The degree to which one LR section is harder than the other varies test by test, but it is to my understanding that there is no pattern for the difficult LR section preceding or following the other -- so you were right to rule out that possibility!

    Good to know!

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    Friday, Sep 08 2017

    alexmedley502

    PT33.S4.Q12 (G2) - there are exactly ten

    A great grouping game with conditional logic, but I am having some trouble...

    I am having trouble understanding how to link up the new condition in this question. I understand what JY is saying in the explanation video and it makes sense but I have no idea how I can apply that in future questions that are similar.

    With the new condition I cannot help but see H -> /S -> J .... "contraposed" as /J -> S -> /H. I don't see how the /S -> J relationship changes, I am trying so hard. Any advice?

    https://classic.7sage.com/lsat_explanations/lsat-33-section-4-game-2/

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    alexmedley502
    Wednesday, Nov 08 2017

    The only answer I can give you based on my experience is to make sure you are doing RC every day timed, blind reviewing it and then watching the explanation videos to see where you can improve. Doing RC, like this entire test, is kind of like going to the gym... if you don't use it, you lose it. But if you exercise those same muscles every day, it will eventually become easier, you will notice patterns and the load will become lighter. Also, make sure you are logging your progress in a spreadsheet. With RC, everyone's strategy tends to differ based on their preferences but maybe a different notation strategy could work for you, so consider that. Have you watched Nicole's video on notation strategies? Take note of the types of passages that are causing you the most trouble and use the analytics tool to target practice those particular ones as well.

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    alexmedley502
    Wednesday, Nov 08 2017

    I feel like in some of the prep tests, especially in the early ones, the first LR section is objectively easier than the second. I noticed the second has many more "EXCEPT" questions and difficult Parallel Method of Reasoning ones. The key is always of course, more LR drilling :smile:

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    alexmedley502
    Monday, Nov 06 2017

    Can't emphasize enough the importance of paraphrasing the stimulus as you're reading along. Putting it into your own words and not reading word-for-word will really help you better understand what is going on with the argument and how they are trying to trick you.

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    alexmedley502
    Monday, Nov 06 2017

    I hate it when I misread things in LR and it happens almost every time I do it timed. Unfortunately, I think the only answer is to keep practicing it timed and sharpen your reading skills that way. When I'm doing LR timed I always make sure to paraphrase what the stimulus is saying instead of just reading it word for word, kind of like how J.Y. does it in the video explanations, that seems to help!

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    alexmedley502
    Monday, Nov 06 2017

    I'm not shocked at all, but I'm maintaining a degree of skepticism! That's all...

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    alexmedley502
    Monday, Nov 06 2017

    @ said:

    You're all assuming he didn't lie about his actual score...

    True, I guess I assumed journalistic integrity. #fakenews ? (hopefully not)

    Well, it is Vice and it's a column based on one's personal experience...

    158 is not an unreasonable diagnostic score, but after studying for this test I have become really skeptical of all who proclaim "oh I took the LSAT on a whim and got a 160." Hearing these stories does nothing to help those studying and struggling to achieve their goal score.

    Also, the author indicates he spent 10 mins on the first question of the LG section and had to rush through the rest. Meaning, he had to have scored very well on both LR sections and RC in order to get close to 160 after presumably bombing the LG section, unless he got really lucky.

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    alexmedley502
    Monday, Nov 06 2017

    Here are some strategies I have used to increase my LR timed score, which is at this point still not that great (I'm actually in a very similar situation as you but aiming to write in Feb), but is much better than it was before:

    When doing the section timed, make sure you are not getting lost in the wording they are using, treat the question as J.Y. does in the video lessons and paraphrase it in your own words. For example, if you are reading a confusing stimulus about a certain animal with a name you can't recognize or pronounce, just call it "A" and the other thing "B." This is an essential part of seeing through the BS that is on LR because it reveals the core flaw of the argument in the stimulus and, in turn, should help you easily eliminate wrong answer choices.

    Make sure you are following the approach to LR that 7sage recommends:

    Read the question stem so you know what to look for

    Read the stimulus, find the conclusion and supporting premise(s), all while putting it into your own words

    2.5 - optional) If you can't understand what's going on by this point, circle the question, put in a default answer choice and come back to it later

    Eliminate wrong answer choices

    When choosing between two remaining answer choices, make sure you are evaluating each one INDEPENDENTLY of the other, not in relation to the other

    Make sure you know your flaws inside and out, and not just what they are, but how to apply them. Most importantly, make sure you know the flaws the LSAT constantly uses as wrong answer choices (i.e. ad hominem)

    Really practice diagramming conditional logic. I am currently using the PowerScore LR drill textbook for this and it's helping quite a bit. I'm sure you can find other resources for exercises in diagramming sentences online

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    alexmedley502
    Monday, Nov 06 2017

    @ said:

    @ said:

    You're all assuming he didn't lie about his actual score...

    158 isn't a far fetched diagnostic but you are right

    Right, I definitely don't think it's a far fetched diagnostic. But it would be a shame for someone to see this and be discouraged by it when there is a possibility that the author is not being truthful about his actual score.

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    alexmedley502
    Monday, Nov 06 2017

    You're all assuming he didn't lie about his actual score...

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    alexmedley502
    Friday, Oct 05 2018

    Great job! Mind if I ask why you think you were rejected with such a high LSAT score + 10 years of experience. Does your cGPA matter that much?

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    alexmedley502
    Tuesday, Apr 02 2019

    I'm gonna be 30

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