Hello everyone!

There are two schools I am seriously considering going to next fall, first choice being the University of Utah and second being the University of Montana. My GPA is 3.92, so above the 75th percentile for both schools, but my LSAT is 159, which is above the 75th percentile for Montana but at the median for Utah.

In order for me to financially justify going to Utah (would have to pay all 3 years of out of state tuition, their new policy) I would need a substantial scholarship. With the LSAT score I have, I don't think I will be offered enough in scholarships to justify going there. However, I just recently found out the Utah just implemented an ED program. In general, I think applying ED is a bad idea in most instances, but for out of state students that are accepted ED at Utah receive a $75,000 scholarship (roughly 65% of base tuition for 3 years). The only conditions to keep the scholarship are to 1). maintain a 2.5 GPA and 2). don't violate any student conduct rules.

While it would be great to receive a scholarship of that size to a school I want to go to, I am uncertain of how difficult it is to attain a 2.5 GPA in 1L. While I take pride in my academic performance and don't think I would have an issue keeping that GPA, I have no clue what types of grades are generally given out in 1L and how the grading curve would factor into that? I am just trying to be as cautious as possible since it would be very unfortunate to lose out on that amount of money and end up paying sticker price after the first year.

Montana is far more affordable, and I can be reclassified as an in-state student after the first year. I suppose my question is how do you guys feel about receiving scholarships with GPA conditions? And from your perspective, would it be worth the risk to apply ED to Utah? Thanks in advance for the help!

Hey all!

JK on the title, there are just going to be some difficult decisions to make in the coming months. This post is mainly me just decompressing after receiving my LSAT score and asking for input from others on my current situation, as I don't like to just sit and think to myself at times like these.

So like many people, I got my score back today and was kind of disappointed with the result. My last three PT's averaged like 162.7 and I got a 159 on the actual test. The main school I was highly considering was the University of Utah and their median LSAT is 158. My GPA is 3.92, so I'm not really worried about being accepted, but the issue is that I don't think I will receive much in the way of scholarship money. Utah changed their residency policy so now if you are classified as an out of state student (which I would be) you have to pay out of state tuition all 3 years (base is around $38,000, they are still figuring what the final number will be). I am pretty debt averse, so being over 100k in debt after school sounds like a bad financial decision. My "safety" school (I use quotations because I would enjoy living in the area because I love the mountains and am not really going into law for the money) is the University of Montana. Their median LSAT is 154 and I would be paying significantly less in tuition. I plan on going into environmental law, and Utah has a top 10 EL program, while Montana does not.

For some reason I seem to have a weird ego thing where I would be less excited about going to a school ranked where Montana is ranked (although I could probably accomplish the goals I have there). As for taking the test again in November, I seem to have no motivation to go through prepping and actually taking the test again. I am just trying to make the decision whether to apply with my current score and get into Montana and most likely Utah (but without scholarship money), or to apply to Montana in October with the 159 and then retake in November to see if I could get a better score for more scholarship money at Utah.

So a few questions for everyone: How highly do you consider school (and program) rank when comparing schools if you would enjoy living in both states and would plan to stay in those states to practice law? Given the information in this post, would you recommend applying to both schools in October with the score I have or to apply to Montana in October and then retake in November and apply to Utah in December?

A lot of this post might be me getting my thoughts and feelings off my chest, but I feel that is the best way for me to rationalize the score I got since I tend to be way too hard on myself when it comes to things like this. Thanks in advance for any insight!

Admin note: edited title, no all caps please

The following is the wording of a question on the Character and Fitness portion of the application for the S.J. Quinney College of Law at the University of Utah:

"Have you ever been disciplined in connection with any misconduct matter related to any educational, personal, professional, military, business, or employment behavior or activity? Being disciplined includes, but is not limited to, being sanctioned, placed on probation, suspended, dismissed, resigning in lieu of termination, surrendering a professional license, or having a civil judgment obtained against you."

Beings the wording of this question states "any misconduct matter related to ANY educational ... behavior or action," would that include disciplinary action in high school? There is a seperate question that specifically asks this type of behavior at post-secondary institutions, as well.

I am concerned because I was suspended for two days in my Senior year of high school for making a sexually suggestive joke toward a teacher. While I don't think it will keep me from being admitted if I disclose, any behavior related to misconduct of a sexual nature can be very detrimental to your show of good character. So does anyone think I should answer "Yes" to this question based on high school disciplinary action?

Thanks for the insight!

Hello all!

So over the last couple of months my PT scoring has seemed to plateau, with my average over the last 4 being 161.8 and tightly grouped (5th one seemed to be an outlier of 166). My section breakdown for those PT's is roughly -10 LR total, -5 LG, and -8 RC. I just took my first 5 section PT and it was the also my first recent PT (made the jump from PT44 to PT78). I felt really good about PT 78 as a whole while taking it, so I was kind of disappointed with the 162 I got. It may be because I made the jump from 2004 tests to a 2016 test (RC was much more difficult), or because the RC section where I went -10 was the 5th section I did (most likely just excuses). I finish each section with roughly 3-7 minutes remaining.

I guess I am just wondering if anyone has any study strategies for breaking through the score plateau? Recently I have focused on fool proofing more games, working on LR by question type, and doing untimed RC sections while also combing through The Economist articles. I am feeling good about the progress I am making on LG, but LR and especially RC need work. I am sitting for the September test and am hoping to go 164+ since the median at schools I am interested in were at 161 last cycle.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Hello all!

So I am trying to brainstorm various topics or events that I could write my personal statement about. There is one particular experience I had a while back that I am thinking could work well for me. During my first semester of college, I was experiencing some symptoms related to drug induced lupus where I would have severe joint pain to the point of not being able to get out of bed on one occasion. While this was going on, my father (who has never been a very emotional man) had a breakdown due to other family issues that landed him in the psychiatric ward twice over a two month period. It was a difficult situation, trying to stay upbeat while it was usually painful to walk long distances and while my family was having a hard time dealing with my father's situation. I also vividly remember trying to calm my father down when he was having overwhelming anxiety attacks at home between stays at the psych ward. I was able to remain positive and support my family emotionally while also working a part-time job and landing on the Dean's List that semester (although academically it was my worst semester).

While I think it could work well for a personal statement, I have seen some suggestions not to use stories or events that took place some time ago. While my specific life event did not occur in high school or earlier, it did occur in my first semester of college after graduating high school. My question is whether the fact that this event took place nearly four years ago will matter to adcoms? Are they looking for more recent personal development?

Thanks in advance for the help!

Hey all!

I have currently taken 3 PT's and am confident on the LR and RC sections (still room for improvement, but doing well). However, I am consistently getting annihilated in the LG sections (like -10 average). When I am fool proofing individual games, I usually complete them under or close to under the suggested time, but when I take timed sections I still end up usually completing only 3 games and miss 10 questions. I don't know if it is solely a product of the added stress of the clock or if my strategy is just messed up. I usually try to initially find easier games to start with, but I noticed on the last timed section I did I skipped to other games before completing the one I was on. Do others see this as detrimental? I also find myself brute forcing the questions and plugging in the answer choices quite often. It seems I have a difficult time making the inferences up front under timed conditions. Does anyone else struggle with this?

I guess I am wondering if I just need to keep fool proofing the games from the PT's I've already took, or if anyone has specific strategies they use for reducing the stress of the clock? I'm currently doing 1-2 timed sections a day and 1 PT a week. Any help is appreciated!