Both. So when I started PTing about a year ago, I regularly (and embarrassingly) went -12 on games. I could go -2 on every other section and games would just crush me. I now average about -1/-2 which for me is a level of improvement I truly never thought I'd see. I can tell you in a state of absolute shock that LG was my best section on the September test, which was a first take for me. I was a total skeptic but it works! I had been using a different tutoring program before 7sage and it just wasn't clicking but with the fp method, I improved slowly and steadily for months.

You will eventually get to the point where you're like, "Oh yeah! I've seen that deduction before," and it'll feel reflexive. Just make sure you really interrogate why you made certain decisions when you were setting up your game boards and making deductions. Anyway, just thought it'd help to hear from someone who seriously sucked at games before foolproofing. Good luck!

Hey there :) Most applications I've done/seen have had an option to explicitly state that you would like to hold your application until a certain test score or LOR comes in, so if you definitely want a certain school to hold your app until then, just tick the box or fill out the space provided for you to request that.

If you don't do that, many schools will go ahead and submit your app to the committee for review once all requirements are met. Of course, this will vary by school. I recently sent an application to a school that asked when I was registered to take the LSAT next, with no language on the application itself saying that they would be holding until that score was submitted. Even so, I looked at my status checker and saw that it was marked "incomplete pending december LSAT score," which I did not want. All I did was call and ask that the hold be removed and the school did it promptly. (Now, this could be the norm and I am certainly no expert, so someone chime in if this automatic hold is commonplace!) As far as the chances/timing situation, it's kind of a dance.

I'll give another example from my experience. I submitted to a target school super early for the benefit of rolling admissions with a GPA in the top 75th percentile and an LSAT around the median, so it's kind of a coin toss for me at this point. I do plan on taking the December LSAT, however. So if that school does not yet have a decision for me by the time December scores come out and I end up scoring better, I can submit a letter of continuing interest stating the new score for their consideration. If they have already rejected me before scores come out, then I obviously can't submit the new one. It's tough to answer these questions because it's all so school-dependent, but I do hope this helps in some way. You really just have to crunch your numbers and decide whether getting in early is worth it or if you really would rather wait until February. The safest bet, if you want to wait for a score, is to either put a hold on your app or just wait to submit. Sorry that was so long, but I hope it's helpful!

That's officially my new plan. I think I can realistically get my score up to at least my average. It's amazing how much less pressure I'm putting on myself studying now that I have a good score under my belt and I think this new mindset will serve me well in the de-stressing department. I'm just going to keep visualizing a 170 haha a girl can dream. Thank you all! (Also, more feedback on personal statements and re-application/this topic in general are totally welcome still)

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During my break I stood with my back straight against the wall facing my fellow LSAT test takers. I tucked my chin in and while maintaining eye contact I started flapping my hands like bird wings.

Girl this had me dying :lol: Like Vanessa, I did some meditative breathing, which is a foolproof strategy for me at this point in basically any stressful situation. It not only calms my mind but it always slows my racing pulse down when I'm tense. Everyone in my classroom was thankfully very much in their own zone like I was, so there was zero chatter. I told myself going in that I'd avoid getting into conversations with people for fear that those conversations would hinge around test day stress and whatever. Obviously it's all personal preference, but if you find it hard to bring your body down from a stress/adrenaline-induced high, I recommend looking into breathing techniques. I'm one of those people who is perpetually stressed and tense so if it helps me, I think it can help just about anyone haha I learned about it through a physical therapist, but I'm sure there are lots of resources online.

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From what I've heard, you don't have to entirely change your PS for the new application. You would have to make noticeable edits, but I don't think you would need to throw the whole thing out.

Yeah I've heard that too, so I'm glad you brought that up.I think my main stumbling block right now is just my LSAT score, so even if I did reapply my reason for doing so would be to come back with a better score. Hm. All of this is so confusing :sweat: In any case, how does everyone feel about applying after december scores are out vs just waiting until early the next cycle? Thanks for your input, folks!

@ totally. I've had the thought that the GRE thing will be geared toward people who have like, Ph.Ds in super complex fields who think, "Lol I am not studying for that stupid LSAT thing. They can bask in my quantum physics glory," or whatever :joy:

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If you can make almost any part of your application better, waiting is what gets my vote. The value proposition of applying early makes sense, but the advantage of applying with a higher LSAT or better PS will almost certainly be better.

Yeah that's what I'm thinking. And applying early with an even better set of numbers is best of all! Now, if I start thinking too hard about this GRE situation I might actually just die but that's another can of worms entirely :lol: Thanks for basically validating my reasoning haha

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Thank you so much for the link. I will definitely start incorporating that everyday. I guess this exam is something else - no undergrad course made me feel so much anxiety.

Of course! I hope it helps (I have faith that it will because like I said, I'm a giant stress ball naturally haha). And it really is its own beast. It's tough to keep your mind from wandering while you're taking it when there's so much at stake with it, but once your confidence is up and your stress is down I know you can kill it!

It did! To be honest, I have been losing sleep too. So today, I just sat down in my room on the floor for 20 mins and just focused on my breathing. It was hard to do, but it really calmed me down!!! I'm gonna try doing this everyday now.

Thank you for the positive kind words :) Sending you lots of love.

I'm so glad! And of course. Love and good vibes to you as well!

I personally would take a year off. I've done editorial work for the past three years since graduating college and honestly, that work gave me a more focused idea of what type of law I'd like to pursue and a better understanding of myself as a person and a professional. I highly recommend waiting! That way you can ensure that you put your best foot forward in your application and on the LSAT. I would obviously keep studying in that time (maybe not as heavily as you are now). Then if all goes according to plan you could fire off your applications the second they're available for the next cycle.

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Thank you so much for the link. I will definitely start incorporating that everyday. I guess this exam is something else - no undergrad course made me feel so much anxiety.

Of course! I hope it helps (I have faith that it will because like I said, I'm a giant stress ball naturally haha). And it really is its own beast. It's tough to keep your mind from wandering while you're taking it when there's so much at stake with it, but once your confidence is up and your stress is down I know you can kill it!

I'm also going to chime in with the mindfulness/meditation advice! Along with mastering fundamentals, it is essential that you don't lose your cool on test day. Easier said than done, I know. I'm a super Type-A, highly anxious person so for what it's worth, this isn't coming to you from a yogi or anything. :wink:

Each day I sit or lay down with my eyes closed and focus on how my breath feels going into my nose as I fill my "belly" (meaning that it's a diaphragmatic breath) and note how it feels when I just release the breath with a little hiss out of my mouth, repeating for anywhere from two to twenty minutes. (this link may help: http://ggia.berkeley.edu/practice/mindful_breathing)

I do a similar thing minus the hiss on test day (obviously lol) at question 15 in every section per a friend's advice. No matter if I'm doing great or the section is messing with me, I put my pencil down at question 15 and take a mindful three-second breath to reset the body and brain. Some will say that's nuts, but it works for me. From what you've said, the mental turmoil of this test seems to be what's really getting to you. But incorporating mindful practices into your daily routine really will change the way your body responds to stress. Also, to second Alex's comment, concurrently work on drilling fundamentals so that the processes behind each question type become reflexive. I think if you can calm your mind during the test, you won't feel the fundamentals slipping so much. Hopefully that helps! Best of luck!

@ sure thing! I'm basically retaking in December to avoid putting off applying to other T14s another cycle. I figure my application would still be sent early enough in the process to make me a contender. February is still doable for 2018 enrollment but since admissions are rolling I just feel more comfortable getting things in as early as possible. If I'm still not totally happy with my score I may retake in June and just resign myself to applying early in the next cycle. Hope that helps!

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@ Thank you for your comment.

I probably should have mentioned that my 166 was a second LSAT. I absolutely do not want to take more than three times, and it's only a month until the next LSAT. If I take it a third time, I want to prepare for it as best as I can.

At the risk of sounding pompous, I'm lucky enough to not worry about money.

If money is no concern then aim for Cornell. You have a coin flip chance with your stats. They're big on personal statements and WHY Cornell essays. So write up the best one you can, visit Ithaca, all of that. I still think that if you can bump that up to a 167-168 it would really make a big difference.

If it helps, I have your exact LSAT/GPA stats and I agree with Alex. My plan is to get my stuff into Cornell and Georgetown ASAP (by next week, ideally, since I've already done essays and visits) and deal with the coin flip with low expectations and then retake in December for the possibility of putting things off a cycle if I get a higher score with the addition of more T14s to my roster (LSAT permitting). Realistically shooting for 168-170 myself. I'll also add that this was my first LSAT, but I don't think taking the LSAT 3 times would be unreasonable or frowned upon for you.

Congrats on the full ride!!! That's what I'll be striving for in the coming months... I'm already above their 75th percentile for the LSAT but I'm at their 25th percentile for GPA :neutral: Hopefully I still have a chance at scholarships! :smiley:

Thanks so much! With each month you practice, you'll learn to kick the LSAT's ass even harder and if you're above the 75th already, there's most likely money to be had for you! Their mission has always been to make quality schooling accessible to people from a lot of backgrounds and I'm impressed that they carry that into their law program. Good luck!

That's great! When I visited Temple I got the same vibe. Everyone was so helpful with all my questions and were very willing to help me out. Do you live on campus? My commute would be long (an hour) so I've been thinking of staying on campus at whatever law school I get in.

Hey there sorry for the delay, I don't live on campus but I live right in Germantown so my commute is about 20 minutes by car or train. I've heard good things about their on-campus housing though. I believe a lot of it was just renovated within the last year or two. Hope that helps!

First of all, congrats on that amazing increase! Damn. And you have the absolute right mindset because even if you didn't hit your target you crushed your studies and lived to tell the tale after sitting for the exam. It's totally normal to not hit your goal score, especially on a first take (I should know, since I'll be retaking in December too :wink: ) I can't speak much to tutoring, but I did talk with my study group of Sagers on Skype last night about how to get back in the saddle. Correct me if I'm wrong, but have you taken a full study break since the test? That's what I did, so hopefully the advice I got will be a little helpful.

First piece of advice is to briefly check what you got wrong without going in and trying to redo the questions from the test. What I did last night was just look at the stimulus of each one I got wrong to see patterns, sort of like what the analytics page does for you on here. To get back on the horse, I'll be starting PTs again tomorrow (probably two per week with BR). Per my study group, starting back with a retake rather than a fresh PT is probably the best way to go. It's a happy medium between hitting the ground running and easing your mind back into the process after a break. If you feel good about timing, maybe don't totally bog yourself down with a ton of PTs right away. Beyond that, I'm personally just going to drill my weak spots some more and hang with JY in the CC where I need help between PTs. As far as changing study programs, this is obviously going to vary person to person, but I would hesitate to make that drastic of a change in such a short time frame. I think studying for a retake is so unique to each person that a class moving at its own pace may do you a disservice. Plus, as you mentioned, you have access to amazing tutors on here who can really help you tailor your experience if self-studying isn't giving you everything you need. That's just my two cents. :) Sorry that's not super specific but I hope something in there is helpful! As for personal statements, I'm totally down to swap if you want. Congrats again!

Okay, now that I'm down from my initial heart-racing, total madness high, I got a good score. I was above my average and worked really hard. I'm sure all of you nailed it as well! Hope everyone kicked this thing's ass. (Also, went from minus 13 on games in my diagnostic to -2 on test day so thank you so much JY and sagers!!) Oh btw get this I got -0 on the judges passage but was so freaked out that I bungled the last passage go me lol...

[redacted] lolol

I'm more nervous now than I was the morning of the test lolol

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@ @ @ @ hey but I couldn't ask to be suffering with a better group of people though!! 7Sager's rock!

Awww, we all bond in our suffering. If I'm not retaking, then I'm going to miss you guys!

Same here! LBR I'll probably still lurk even if I don't retake :joy: :heart:

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I just have a bad feeling overall. lol :joy:

Saaaame. I want to just get this over with :cold_sweat:

Congrats!

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Thanks for posting this!

I'm really excited to see schools like Temple University kinda sorta up there in terms of employment outcomes.. Even though my dream is to go T14, schools like Temple are probably a more realistic expectation due to my less than stellar GPA. Not to mention, Temple offers some pretty solid financial aid. Given these ATL rankings, I'll definitely be applying to Temple this fall! Sad to see UC Irvine absent from this list despite their alluring USNWR ranking strides...

Haven't posted on here in quite some time now that my LSAT journey is through (hi everyone!), but if it helps you at all, I got a full ride to Temple, visited, and was REALLY blown away by the students, profs, clinics, and overall atmosphere there. In fact, I preferred it over many of the other higher-ranked schools I visited. I am so excited to get started at Temple this fall and I'm also pumped to see them getting recognition for pretty stellar employment. If you could see yourself working in Philly (which is a great and truly underrated city, but I'm biased because I live here :wink: ) then I'd absolutely check it out. And even if you aren't set on Philly, it still seems like a fantastic nationally recognized program. Anyway, hope everyone's doing great :)

Can't believe it's only a month out already! I will also just chime in and say you'd be better served to do one or two tests a week and really, really get into your weaknesses by blind reviewing. Blind reviewing and foolproofing have been absolutely instrumental in my studies and I'm sure many more can attest to that. Such a high number of PTs per week would probably better serve someone who is just nailing down their strategy, but even then, I'd say any opportunity to thoroughly blind review each PT is one that should be taken no matter what you're scoring. Just a matter of quality over quantity, I guess. And I second Alex's comment about finishing the CC. Can't build a house without a solid foundation. Best of luck! :)

(I'll start by saying you should take this with a grain of salt because I'm by no means an expert and I'm in the thick of this process right along with you, but here it goes.) Based on feedback I've gotten from admissions folks and editors, if your statement says something important about you as a human being, then it has done its job. I, for example, wrote about how being an artist has shaped my worldview. I did tie it to legal study at the end in a way that felt natural but my statement was conducive to that. If it doesn't feel natural or if it reads sort of clunky, then it may not help much.

For what it's worth, admissions people I've spoken to from two T14 schools said that they just want to learn more about you as a person and gather info about you that they can't get from your other application materials. If that has to do with why you want to go to law school, awesome. If it doesn't deal with that directly, that's okay too. Also, if you haven't purchased the admissions course add-on, I highly recommend it. Even the cheapest option has so much to offer as far as getting the best possible application out there. Hope that helps!