@karenako539-leh2021 I'm going to go ahead and say that a 170 is phenomenal for T14, but the higher you go, the better it is for you to have a 175+ (e.g. HYS, UVA, Columbia, etc.) The caveat is, that higher score will not be anyone's golden ticket for admissions. It's best to use the extra year to gain work experience, etc. to make yourself the most well rounded applicant you can be. After, shoot blindly and hope you land in the top. It's not impossible. It's just a hell of a lot harder to get into T6 and even T14.

Sorry if this all sounds morbid. I think we can all hope for a better cycle in 2021, but it's just not a guarantee. Having done the whole 2020 horror story of a cycle, I can say I was pretty disappointed with some of my admissions results but not all of it. There are amazing schools outside of the T14 and it really just depends on your own personal goals and why you want to pursue law. Try not to worry too much. I think in any cycle, all we can do is try our best and that's it. A lot of things are and will always be out of our control so cast a wider net for applications, brush up your resume, aim high on the LSAT, and you should be just fine. Good luck if you're applying next cycle!

@dimakyure869 YES. That is exactly the type of situation that makes me think a high score no longer matters as long as there is an influx of applicants and high scores... and unfortunately, so far, that seems to be a high possibility for the 2021 cycle. We spoke briefly about this when I was thinking of doing R&R and I really think it might not make a difference even if I score in the 170's for the next round of admissions. Unless I am aiming for lower T14 or T20 at this point. But overall, I think a high score is always a good goal to have and strive for to increase your chances, but you just can't rely on it to be your golden ticket anymore (which absolutely sucks, but is the reality for now)

Edit: If it's any consolation, I did see people with lower scores than the median get into their reach schools in 2020.. however, they were definitely a rarity. I also got waitlisted at a reach (my LSAT score was below median but my GPA was in their range) so.. schools are still considering a range of scores, but it's a lot more difficult to gauge where you will land in the spectrum of admissions. It was literally anyone's game for 2020 and people are still waiting on a ton of waitlists. Overall, it's not impossible, but just be prepared for unexpected acceptances, rejections, and waitlists.

I agree with what has been said, but I do think it's very possible that medians will be going up for a bunch of schools. It may be best to aim a few points higher, but generally a 170 is already phenomenal. I think we tend to forget that 170+ scores are literally not at all average when we see these increases in scores.... I think it's also good to note that there may be a change in this occurrence with LSAC going back to the 4 section tests. However, even that test is essentially a flex test so there may still be more 170+ scores, but only time will tell.

What happened this past cycle showed me that some schools were no longer impressed with sky high LSAT scores, but rather soft factors. I cannot say how the 2021 cycle will pan out of course, but if it's anything like the 2020 cycle (more 170's -180's + more applications), I think it's safe to assume that many schools at the top will consider soft factors much more. This past cycle, many KJDs and people with little to no work experience were often at a disadvantage when it came to the T14 schools because schools were bombarded with hoards of high scorers. So even if someone had amazing scores and GPA, but lacked in certain softs, they were weeded out. I think the dean of Georgetown literally said something along the lines of, "applicants better have a good reason for me to accept them because a 170+ is no longer unique". As such, I am not sure a 170-175 would really make much of a difference (unless you're aiming for HYS) in the grand scheme of things since it will no longer be a purely numbers game. It used to be that people with scores like 170-180 were considered sure shots at a lot of the higher ranked schools, but I don't think we can rely on that for the next cycle or even the one after. The 2020 cycle really rocked the admissions game in my opinion and I applied in that hellfire of a cycle so I really saw people with 175s get waitlisted everywhere. It's just insane

@emmorens932 thank you for the advice! I'm just juggling a bunch of factors and possibilities for R&R and Irvine. It seems like the next cycle will not lighten up in terms of competition and amount of applicants overall. Still deciding, but I may just go with Irvine since they check most of my boxes 🙈 I just need to get over rankings and realize that I can still be successful at a non T14 law school and that BL is still possible outside of T14. I think Reddit poisoned my brain to a degree 😂😭

Edit: UCI already said theyre planning for in person classes as long as cases don't spike. I don't know that I would survive law school over zoom. Sounds insane 😭

@dimakyure869 first of all, congrats on your acceptances at GULC and Cornell ! Those are both awesome schools and with scholarship, even better. I totally agree with everything you've said. I've been thinking about this for the past few days and I do feel the odds are stacked against R&R. I do think I can break into the 170's, but I don't know that I can set myself apart enough for it to count and propel me into higher ranked schools. This past cycle made me feel like I had better save the world and cure cancer before thinking of applying to the T6 lmao I'm still undecided but I think I'm leaning towards Irvine if my PTs don't yield any significant increase in my LSAT score.

On the other hand, I know what you mean about rankings. I'll admit that my brain is holding onto prestige and I think that's part of the reason for this indecision with Irvine. The predictor tools were definitely useless for this cycle, but I was using them as guides before I realized just how nuts this cycle was (back in October/ november). So I clung onto that hope throughout only to be terribly disappointed 😂 I also think rankings are bogus to a degree like with the UCI drop. At first, it definitely turned me off to the school.. but after hearing the current Dean explain the metrics and reveal that Irvine actually went up for all other categories that actually mattered, I felt much more reassured. I agree that Chermerinsky definitely helped UCI climb, but I think the school is slowly climbing regardless of his presence. I am sad to see that the current Dean will be leaving, but I hope the next Dean will continue to foster the growth of UCI. They have definitely come a long way for only being 10-11 years old. I've heard companies / firms don't look at where you went to law school after you've gotten your first/ second job? By then, it's more about your skill set/ quality of work.

Thanks for sharing your journey though and you definitely made the right choice with R&R!! I'm glad it worked out for you. Hopefully, I'll know what to do soon, but thanks for conversing with me. It brings things into perspective. Are you leaning towards any one law school? Best of luck to you wherever you attend :)

Thanks for sharing your journey and thought process on R&R. I think the predictor gave me a high chance for WashU based on what happened in previous cycles. Yes, their median is 169 but the predictor results for me (if I recall correctly) was around 85%? which I see as a safety (maybe I'm wrong for thinking that haha) and the main reason I applied there.. The same was true for BU. I'm not sure what the metrics are for the predictor, but there were a couple like those in the T20 that indicated I had a pretty good shot for admission at those schools. I actually don't have a 4.0 but it's on the higher end I suppose. I can't say why they gave me a high likelihood for washU but I took it as a good sign haha I got wait listed there this cycle so oh well. On a side note, I do think the predictor has been updated because when I entered my stats just now, the results were different. But overall, I guess I just feel like I could have had way more options if I applied for the 2019 cycle instead.. but I'm sure most of us can agree that this cycle was essentially a nightmare. I am definitely aware I am not the only one feeling cheated out of certain opportunities that would have been possible in a normal cycle.

As for UCI, I received pretty decent scholarship that allows for minimal debt which I am very grateful for. I just want to make sure I am making the right decision for myself with all factors in consideration. But honestly, I'll probably end up there if I'm being honest since my LSAT goal for R&R isn't easy to achieve. I am shocked for your UCI decision though. A 166 is pretty much median at UCI and should give you a decent shot in a normal cycle lol but like you said, this cycle has been all over the place. I've seen some amazing acceptances and some really crazy rejections for people who were super qualified. That aside though, congrats on your other acceptances and good luck to you on R&R. I think you can definitely get a higher score and get into even better schools next year if the waitlists do not pan out!

@dimakyure869 thanks for the in depth outlook on R&R. I definitely did not underperform for Irvine, but I guess I'm salty about the other schools that would have been my safeties if that makes sense. For instance, BU and WashU were both schools that were essentially safeties for me according to the 7sage predictor. But again, I know others like me who had the same predictor results were also barred out of those two schools. I am still on the wait list for BU but I'm not super drawn to doing much about that.

As for the LSAT, I definitely agree with what you've said. I was just going to try taking some PTs again to see how I fare and if it doesn't work, Irvine it is. I was mainly contemplating because I thought I would get a 168/169 on my second take so I was not satisfied with my score but applied anyways since i took the October? Test so I was just rushing to apply. I still haven't fully decided what to do, but I think I'm leaning towards Irvine if my PTs aren't promising. As I've mentioned, I don't have an issue with Irvine. In fact, I love their program and I think they do really well in training students to be well rounded and efficient legal practitioners, but I am really just hung up on the rank because of my desire to leave the door open for BL. UCI is also a newer school so I'm worried about reputation and alumni connections but it seems like they're gaining traction in the legal field and their reputation is building itself. Do you think I still have a decent chance at BL if I attend UCI? That's my main concern honestly along with overall employment but that's just a personal fear that doesn't really have anything to do with the school itself lol

But overall, I would be content/ satisfied graduating from UCI if transferring doesn't work out. I think it's a great school. I'm just hung up on the idea of needing to attend a T14 for BL or better employment outcomes. On an aside, my top choice was Berkeley and NU (Stanford too but that was just a dream that I was having fun with lol). UCB is convenient for me and was my top choice for that reason but I know in my gut, it probably wouldn't have been the best fit for my personal/ emotional needs. Then for NU, still waiting to see if I can get off the wait list but there's not much I can do lol but I guess everything happens for a reason and I think that's what happened here now that I think about it. Everything will fall into place. I just don't know how yet. Sorry for the rambling but thank you for your insight! Really appreciate it.

@robetjlee97145 I don’t think the big law numbers for UCI are terrible so I know it is a possibility, but I think it’ll be harder for me if I don’t perform at a certain level. I think that’s my main concern haha of course I will put my all into law school, but you just never know with law school grades. There’s such a steep learning curve, but I do see myself benefiting from the smaller class sizes at UCI. Maybe in retrospect, it is a better fit for me than a bigger T14.

That’s a fair reasoning for the 2021 cycle and I agree. I am actually not assuming that it will be any easier honestly.. I am just wondering if it’ll be more difficult which I guess it might be due to the inflated medians and likelihood of yet another larger applicant pool.. but I figured I would consider R&R because I think I can break into the 170’s. However, I wonder if that is enough Lol Of course I will also add a year of work experience, but this past cycle was absolutely unpredictable and it showed me that admissions is basically anyone’s game. I appreciate your insight though. It really helps talking to someone about this rather than overthinking it all in my thoughts. Do you know anything about transferring in law school? Only considering transferring in case I want to try for my top choice again

@robetjlee97145 I have always had an interest in it, but I am not dead set on BL. But I know now that I would like to keep the door open so I can explore every legal avenue that I am interested in. In addition, BL is a safe bet for most who want to earn a stable living for a bit and then pivot to a less lucrative legal career so I don’t want to shut the door on that just yet.

@dimakyure869 currently my highest is a 166 on file (took it twice total). I was scoring 168/169 occasionally 170 before the exam but I am a highly anxious person so I’m guessing nerves got to me on test day. Not a huge discrepancy from practice scores obviously but I feel like I can get a 170, but it is a gamble in this situation.

On a side note, do you know anything about big law chances for UCI? I’ve been scouring reddit for some answers but nothing is really clear... may have to shoot an email to UCI admissions... I’d like to end up in the bay even if that means I have to work a couple years in SoCal ( if I do attend UCI). I think my fear is whether the next cycle will be just as much of a crap shoot/ horror fest... I just feel like I underperformed because I got waitlisted/ rejected from schools that were supposedly my safeties according to 7Sage (85-90% chance based on stats) but I’m sure this was true for most candidates this past cycle..

@mgarzacr482 hi! Would you be willing to chat via PM ?

@missvannavo762 Happy to say that I am originally from the Bay so hopefully that helps me out. Do you think that would help my chances of getting a job in the Bay after graduation if I do attend UCI ? I know someone at BU law who was able to get internships and a job offer in the Bay (she's also originally from the Bay) so I was hoping the same might be true for me if I go to UCI. But I know BU is like T20 now so I'm not sure if I can compare my situation with her's haha

I do have an offer from Hastings and am still waiting on Berkeley but it looks pretty bleak considering how late it is in the cycle 😅 I have decent offers from Hastings and UCI so I'm leaning towards UCI mainly due to ranking etc. But I do know that Hastings has great networks within the Bay. I'm just on the fence right now and still haven't heard back from everyone so I can't get myself to make a definitive decision yet. On another note, I am trying to get off the waitlist at NU so I'm just all over the place in terms where I want to attend 😂😭😂 but my gut is saying that UCI is a good choice so I figured I would ask this forum. I also like their clinics so that was a huge factor in me applying there.

That makes sense ! Best of luck to you on your applications. :)

@missvannavo762 thank you for your insight! I will definitely check out that podcast. It’s reassuring to know that the law firms in the area are familiar with the law schools around them regardless of rankings. I’m always on the fence about rankings because they seem important on the one hand and meaningless on the other. Glad I’m not big law or bust though 😅 I would go nuts thinking about rankings haha but thank you ! I am hoping to practice in the Bay Area so I don’t see myself staying in LA long term if I do attend UCI. Do you know if that will have an impact on my job prospects? I figured it should be fine since it’s still CA, but not sure.

Also good luck on your app to UCI !! 😁 Is it your top choice?

I think you’re fine! Law schools have been swamped this year with applications so the whole admissions process has been dragged out for the most part. If it makes you feel any better, I applied in November/ December and am still waiting to hear back from 5 schools lol! I just heard back from 2 this past week if that helps. Hope you hear back soon. Try not to stress too much about it. Good luck!

@dimakyure869 that gives me hope! Thank you for sharing that. I agree, it’s still a chance, right? Haha I just wish I heard back from the rest so I can make a more informed decision, but it is what it is. I’ll probably submit a LOCI either way. Thanks again for sharing your insight !

@dimakyure869 hi! I actually did the Kira interview when I applied, but there’s an additional Kira interview that’s specific to waitlist applicants in addition to a couple of written responses. So I think these are mandatory for waitlist applicants who want to be considered for admission, but my question is whether it’s actually worth a shot. I’m just concerned after seeing the exorbitant waitlists at some of the other schools (E.g. Michigan, BU, Georgetown) so it makes me wonder if I actually have a chance of getting off the waitlist. I think I will try for it though. It’s the one school I feel is worth trying for when it comes to my WL options. I am just wondering if there’s any additional tips for increasing my chances of getting off the waitlist. Do you know when I should submit a LOCI or is it not necessary since there’s the extra interview and written responses?

@karenako539 I guess we wait :/ but thank you for the update! Do you know when it’s appropriate to write LOCIs? I’m thinking of writing for one of the schools but not sure if I’m too late or early

I dealt with the same exact thing. I was anxious about taking prep exams because I was worried the score I receive would disappoint me or indicate that I wasn’t ready. I delayed practice exams like there was no tomorrow and to be honest, this only changed after I underperformed on my first actual take. After receiving a lower score than anticipated, it kicked me into overdrive and infused a determination within me to do better. After that, I started taking 2-3 exams per week and realized that once I started taking more exams, I got more comfortable and less anxious. I think I just realized that no matter how much you prepare, each exam will have its own curveballs and difficulties. You can’t anticipate them all so why bother worrying about something you can’t control. All you can do is apply what you know and finish the exam with your best efforts. Try not to be too down on yourself about this because anxiety is truly a b*tch and as someone who deals with it on a regular, I can say it’s a valid struggle. Try to get yourself to take more exams and timed sections without worrying about the outcome. Remember, at the end of the day, this is just one exam and it doesn’t define who you are or your intellect. Give it your best shot and keep working towards the goal! You’ll get there. Best of luck!

@karenako539 I received the same waitlist email a week ago and did not reply to them since they said they would follow up with instructions.... but I have not received any sort of update. Maybe they’re behind on the process? Wouldn’t be surprised though because I’m pretty sure their waitlist is fairly huge. I have no clue but maybe I’ll give them a call too.

Also, I applied through LSAC and this happened to me as well.

@karenako539 thanks! I'm barely hanging in there if I'm being honest. I'm just ready for this bloody cycle to be over. I feel the same way though and I wish I was ready last cycle but it is what it is. I still have hope (very little but it's there) for a miracle of some sort but I know deep down it all works out in the end. Comedic relief is a necessity forsure so I'm just binging Netflix when my mind wanders too far. Either way, good luck on any late minute apps and for the rest of your decisions!

@davemorehart98305 I think you would enjoy the NorCal culture tbh it's so much more laid back and chill than the stuck up energy I felt in 85% of LA lol (can you tell my time there killed me lol jk but not really). so if you're considering Davis, I guess that's a pro! I would say visit first but lol the pandemic :(

Yes! I originally did not apply to UCI because they're still a relatively new law school so I was worried about the lack of alumni connections and whether the name would carry through when I look for jobs. But I must say I'm decently surprised by their growing job employment growth and it seems theyre doing pretty well for a newer law school. It seems like a good fit as well since CA is where I envision myself long term. However, I will say that if you're considering UCI, Might be worth reading up on their admin during the pandemic. I read a concerning post on Reddit and it seems kinda crappy how they're treating OCIs and stuff during this time. I don't know how true it is and I can't seem to find more information but worth mentioning if you are seriously considering applying. As for GULC, I don't think you should feel bad. From what I remember in your other posts, you have a stellar LSAT score and it makes sense why you would apply. I think this cycle caught a lot of us by surprise and many outcomes that we predicted for ourselves shattered. If it's any consolation at all, I got WL at two schools that I was supposed to have 90% chance at and radio silence from another that had the same percentage. It's just really tough with the pandemic, increase in apps, and lesser number of seats at certain schools due to past deferrals. Overall, don't press yourself too much on the R's. I'm sure you'll end up at a great law school ! What is meant to be, will be. Keep at it!

You are not alone. I freaked out and threw a last minute application at UCI a day or two ago and thinking about a couple more, but may just hold out and let it go since it’s pretty late in the cycle. :/ this cycle is unpredictable to say the least and I still have about 8 schools to hear back from (well 9 after that last minute app) and it’s been silence so far. I’m low key getting worried since deposits are coming up for the ones I did get into. Hope we get some closure and comfort soon!

As for Davis, it’s definitely more of a small college town like the commenter above stated. It’s not too urban or rural but definitely not like a booming city. It’s great if you prefer a more quiet and peaceful environment vs. bustling city.

Also, on a more off topic note, I went to a school in LA for undergrad and the culture was not it for me but I managed and still enjoyed most of my time there. If you’re the same or had similar vibes, I can see why people would say NorCal is the place in CA for you. I’m from the Bay and SoCal does not even come close to the bay in terms of culture and environment (I’m biased though haha). The only things I enjoyed in LA were the food and the plethora of places to visit and enjoy with friends and family.