Community Profile

Admissions · Are South Americans considered URMs?

nevadacity37335

Wednesday, Aug 30 2017

It might be advisable to contact the schools you are interested in and ask them directly. Should your heritage not be considered to qualify as a URM, from what you describe of your background, you do offer many diversity aspects to law schools. As such, it seems to me you have plenty of fodder for a diversity statement, which can add value - or provide a "boost" as you say - to your candidacy.

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General · Test Day Prep Prior to the Test

nevadacity37335

Tuesday, Aug 29 2017

Thank you everyone; I appreciate your insights :)

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General · Test Day Prep Prior to the Test

nevadacity37335

Tuesday, Aug 29 2017

@ said:

Day before: sacrifice a goat to the LSAT gods

no but seriously, the day before just chill out, you already practice a bunch and you should relax the day before.

The morning of: the 2 times I took the test, I didn't do anything that I knew to be hard questions. I did about 8 easy LR questions, 1 simple LG, and an RC passage I have done before. I didn't score it either because of confidence. Don't overdo it the morning of though, def just keep it very light

No scoring your practice questions the day of.... that is good advice. Thank you, sir.

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General · The cost associated with LSAT prep & law school is classist and discouraging

nevadacity37335

Tuesday, Aug 29 2017

@ said:

@ You got your Trainer for $35.... I need to get a refund...

It was "used" but essentially brand new; I paid $35 for it. I could have gotten a used copy, for less, but you really should do the drills to get the most out of that book.

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General · The cost associated with LSAT prep & law school is classist and discouraging

nevadacity37335

Tuesday, Aug 29 2017

@

First, LSAC has fee waivers. If you are extremely poor as you say you are, you should have a high chance of being issued a fee waiver from LSAC = no CAS fee (savings of $100), 2 free LSATS (savings of $360), and an official LSAC review book (200 pages). Too boot, virtually every law school in the nation will give you an application fee waiver, meaning, applying to a law school is only the cost of sending your CAS report, which is $35 per school. Even the one school that doesn't automatically give you an application fee waiver (Stanford), will almost certainly give you a fee waiver if you fill out their fee waiver application (I have done this successfully twice).

Secondly, I am not sure why you only looking at the most expensive LSAT services; there are cheaper ways to study for the LSAT: 1) find someone to study with or borrow their materials; 2) some LSAT self-instruction books are rather cheap, and quite good. For example, the "LSAT Trainer" is $35, and I am sure you can get a used one for even cheaper. 3) there is endless free information online. 7Sage has videos of every single logic game on every LSAT, for free.

Third, there are programs that are designed for people exactly like you that are offered by law schools (usually during the summer). How do I know this? I was apart of one. UCLA has one. UC Davis has one. Several other schools have them, look for them. They are free, and are specifically for under-represented, or poor aspiring law school students.

While I strongly sympathize and relate with your situation, I do not agree with your analysis of the outcome of it. Indeed, you might have to work harder than some people that are privileged with money or connections. But many of us do it because we want to go to law school. I would encourage you to look beyond the problem, as you will never find the solutions in it.

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General · Stressed

nevadacity37335

Tuesday, Aug 29 2017

You can definitely do it, albeit with some pretty diligent and honest analysis of where and how you are going wrong. I started at a 141.... now I am in the 168-170 range very consistently. If I can, anyone can, as I am not gifted with the LSAT like some are. Believe in yourself DeterminedC, you'll get there!

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General · Graduate work GPA

nevadacity37335

Tuesday, Aug 29 2017

@ said:

Thank you @ and @. I am just trying to balance the potential hit to my GPA with the benefits of receiving a better letter.

Appreciate the advice!

No problem. It is wise to make such considerations. I completely concur with "Alex Divine's" analysis. I wish you the best, and just crush that class and you have the best of both worlds!

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General · Graduate work GPA

nevadacity37335

Monday, Aug 28 2017

Any grade you receive for a course that you take prior to receiving your first bachelor degree will be counted. As to how much one course will matter to an admissions officer, I should think minimally at best. The knowledge you gain and the exposure you get with your professor will be the biggest gains.

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General · LSAC GPA

nevadacity37335

Thursday, Sep 21 2017

3.93, I am sure you know, is a very high GPA . Unless you think your LSAT is below the medians or 25th percentile of the schools you want to get into, I am not sure that the trade-off of time, money and anguish of taking another class is worth a GPA bum of .01. I would recommend using 7Sage's LSAC GPA calculator ( https://classic.7sage.com/gpa-calculator/ ). Input all your grades up to this point, and see what it is. Then add however many units the course is that you are considering re-taking, and ascribe an "A" value (or an A+ if that is possible at your school) and see what the change in GPA is. If you are nearing completion of undergraduate work, I am assuming you probably have nearly 100 units or more at this juncture; as such it is hard to move one's GPA, especially if it is already really high like yours is.

By the way, I have found the calculations through 7Sage's calculator to be very accurate; at worst there is a +/- deviation of .01. Most of the time it is dead on.

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General · Is 25-26 "old" for law school?

nevadacity37335

Thursday, Sep 21 2017

@ said:

Curious on what people think.

My opinion is no since the average age is somewhere like 24-25 (or so I read somewhere) - however for those going at 26 you presumably won't graduate until 29-30 - could those "big law" jobs potentially go to younger candidates with the same qualifications?

No way, like some previous responders, I will be in my late thirties when I apply.

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LSAT · Fell off a Cliff

nevadacity37335

Saturday, Sep 09 2017

I experienced the same kind of dip last week. I recovered by just doing timed sections - one at a time - to gain the confidence again by acing those. I concur with those above: it is a mental thing.

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General · 142 to 161

nevadacity37335

Saturday, Sep 09 2017

@ said:

I just wanted to rave a little bit cause I'm pumped. So i did the full core curriculum, then just wrote my first practice LSAT. My cold diagnostic back in May I got a 142. On this test I got a 161 before BR and a 165 after BR. I'm not writing until December but I am already pumped about the progress just made! Thanks 7Sage!

Great job, Canadian! You should be pumped, that is a huge jump. Hard work on the LSAT does pay off.

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General · How badly does taking the September LSAT and canceling look?

nevadacity37335

Monday, Sep 04 2017

I've spoken to several t14 law schools about cancellations - as I have cancelled one - and none of them cared. They were like "whatever" about it. Although, the ideal is to take the test once and have one great score.

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LSAT · Official February 2018 LSAT Waiting Thread

nevadacity37335

Friday, Mar 02 2018

And this from DK after contacting LSAC after their tweet about the weather: "They replied, but only to say "no comment." Which of course could mean anything. Since score release is by automatic program, anything remains possible. Which is so messed up.""

Indeed, that is messed up. However, consider this yall: even if you score came out today, schools won't do anything with your file until Monday anyways. They don't receive your score until a day after we the test-takers do (so I was told by multiple schools when I called them after the December 17' early score release on the 22nd).

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LSAT · Official February 2018 LSAT Waiting Thread

nevadacity37335

Friday, Mar 02 2018

@ said:

Ummmm I think it almost might be a giving up hope time. Per LSAC twitter,

"Due to the beastly weather from this nasty winter storm in the east, LSAC’s offices are closing at 3:30 pm today. If you are affected by bad weather of any kind, please stay warm, dry, and safe."

Well, given that is in 6 minutes from now, we can all stop freaking out today and call it a day.

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LSAT · Tips?

nevadacity37335

Saturday, Sep 02 2017

Read for structure, not details. Don't get bogged down in the details. If you go back over a passage and highlight the exact sections, sentence(s) or phrase(s) in which an answer was to be found, I think you will see it is usually only a small portion of the passage. This might help alleviate that feeling that you need to grasp every single word. Also, if you are trying to "rush", you will retain little of it. Similarly, following the sentence lines with a pencil might help reduce backtracking or loosing your place in the passage.

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Admissions · How does it work? I am confused.

nevadacity37335

Saturday, Sep 02 2017

@ said:

@ Thanks once again for your helps : ) I'm planning to sit on Dec. exam and was debating whether to submit the rest of the application before the LSAT score comes out or submit all together on the day I receive my score. Thank you!! : ) Now, it seems more smart choice to submit app. before the score comes out.

It really depends on the school. As a word of caution, you may need to modify - or discover that you want to modify - your application. For example, if you don't score as high as you normally do on the LSAT and you want to write an addendum or something like that. Or you have a brilliant idea for a diversity statement that you never thought of before, etc. Once you submit it, that is it. There is no "editing" your app once it is submitted. Just be very, very sure you are confident you application is complete on your end and you are comfortable removing any possibility of making any changes. I wish you the best of luck, and crush that LSAT in December.

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General · Help! Bad admission ticket picture

nevadacity37335

Friday, Sep 01 2017

@ said:

Also, a follow up question as I had a similar issue. Are you printing it in black and white or color? When I printed mine b&w I had a pretty worrying shadow covering half my face, but printing in color fixed that or made it less likely to be an issue. So if you printed in b&w, try color.

Solid advice.

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General · Help! Bad admission ticket picture

nevadacity37335

Friday, Sep 01 2017

@ said:

A darker than normal shade of foundation on the corresponding half of your face should fix that right up.

This is hilarious! Thanks for the laugh, I needed it.

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Admissions · How does it work? I am confused.

nevadacity37335

Friday, Sep 01 2017

@ said:

To probably your frustration, "both" is the most accurate answer. Until a law school has all the components of your application, it isn't going to be processed and reviewed. When an application is "complete", that means you need to have completed: 1) the online application (a few allow an application directly to that specific law school, but this is rare, nor is it preferred); 2) a completed CAS report (meaning all your transcripts are turned in and accounted for by LSAC); 3) you have the at least the minimum requisite letters of recommendation for a given school; and lastly, a reported LSAT score through LSAC. I assume this is your first time taking the LSAT. If it isn't, and you have a score on file with LSAC, that is a different situation that requires definite caution about when you turn in everything to a law school (they will process your application and review it with a score that you probably don't want them to evaluate your application with!)

However, you can - for example - have everything else finished (application, letters of recommendations, all your transcripts turned into LSAC) and turn in your application to a law school without an LSAT score posted to your LSAC account. But, your application at that law school will be incomplete. Which means, it will not be processed and reviewed. Once you take the LSAT in December, your score will be posted and official sometime at the end of December or early January. At that time, your file will be "complete", meaning, it will be processed by the law school.

So, a law school can receive your "completed" application, but just because they receive it doesn't mean it will be processed. Until all the required materials are in possession of the law school you applied to - despite your "completing" of all the other materials outside of a reported LSAT score with LSAC - your application is not complete in the eyes of the law school. Some applicants just want to have it all finished and submitted so that when their LSAT score is posted by LSAC, there is nothing left for them to do in order to have their application processed and added to the pool of candidates for review.

Thanks so much for your explanation! I was under the impression that even though they don't start reviewing your application without the score, it was still beneficial to send it earlier so that it's earlier in the "stack of apps to review" sort of speak vs. sending it after the holidays/when the score is out & when most apps come in and being stuck behind all of those other applicants. Do you know if this is true? I'm also taking it for the first time in December!

So you are touching on a more nuanced question that is more law school specific. Some schools read apps in the order that they come in, thus, for some schools (which I don't recall at the moment), there is some potential benefit to turning it in prior to an LSAT score being posted. Other schools process applications in the order in which they were "completed" (meaning, the law school's standard of completed). Other just review all the top applicants first regardless of their order. Some might start reviewing your file without an LSAT score, but I don't think that is very common seeing the LSAT is a ridiculously large part of your admissions decision. As you can see, there is a myriad of processes among the law schools. If you want to know if there is a benefit to turning it in earlier without an LSAT score, or some other component that is necessary to render a file complete by a law school, you will need to contact the admissions office at those schools to have any definitive answer.

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Admissions · How does it work? I am confused.

nevadacity37335

Friday, Sep 01 2017

@ said:

@ Thank you very much for such detailed explanations! : ) May I ask you one quick question? Assuming that you already finished writing essays, collected recommednations and filled everything in the application and about to click the final submission button, how long does the process usually take for the application to be fully submitted and get comfirmed once you ? I know the application is sent electronically, so would it be safe to assume that the school will receive the application the day I sent?(like I send an email and can comfirm it was safely sent in minutes) or can it take another cople days for the school to receive the application?

When I sent my apps in last cycle, it would usually take a day or two before LSAC would confirm that the application was both sent from them, and received by the law school. I think in one instance, it took 3 days. So, it isn't immediate, but it is quick. To note, just because you have everything turned into a law school, it doesn't mean it is processed at that law school. So, while LSAC says they have received it, it can - in some instances and for some schools - take a bit for the law school to change your application status to "complete." I had an application sit at Vanderbilt for 3 weeks before the law school changed my status to complete. The law school will send you an email, or change your status on your "status checker". Also to note, the later in the application cycle you submit your application, often, the longer the latency is between when they receive it, and when the law school says it is "complete."

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General · How far do you trust "worldly" knowledge?

nevadacity37335

Friday, Sep 01 2017

@ said:

So iv done hundreds upon hundreds of LR questions and i still dont have an answer for this. What does LSAC consider acceptable outside knowledge. What can i assume?

Your question has highlighted to myself that I have a "wing-it" and "if it feels right" approach that isn't based in any reason, strategy or logic, lol.

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Admissions · How does it work? I am confused.

nevadacity37335

Friday, Sep 01 2017

To probably your frustration, "both" is the most accurate answer. Until a law school has all the components of your application, it isn't going to be processed and reviewed. When an application is "complete", that means you need to have completed: 1) the online application (a few allow an application directly to that specific law school, but this is rare, nor is it preferred); 2) a completed CAS report (meaning all your transcripts are turned in and accounted for by LSAC); 3) you have the at least the minimum requisite letters of recommendation for a given school; and lastly, a reported LSAT score through LSAC. I assume this is your first time taking the LSAT. If it isn't, and you have a score on file with LSAC, that is a different situation that requires definite caution about when you turn in everything to a law school (they will process your application and review it with a score that you probably don't want them to evaluate your application with!)

However, you can - for example - have everything else finished (application, letters of recommendations, all your transcripts turned into LSAC) and turn in your application to a law school without an LSAT score posted to your LSAC account. But, your application at that law school will be incomplete. Which means, it will not be processed and reviewed. Once you take the LSAT in December, your score will be posted and official sometime at the end of December or early January. At that time, your file will be "complete", meaning, it will be processed by the law school.

So, a law school can receive your "completed" application, but just because they receive it doesn't mean it will be processed. Until all the required materials are in possession of the law school you applied to - despite your "completing" of all the other materials outside of a reported LSAT score with LSAC - your application is not complete in the eyes of the law school. Some applicants just want to have it all finished and submitted so that when their LSAT score is posted by LSAC, there is nothing left for them to do in order to have their application processed and added to the pool of candidates for review.

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Admissions · Who should write my LORs?

nevadacity37335

Friday, Sep 01 2017

While I concur with the idea of basically "shopping" your potential recommenders to see which one is best, I believe I conversation I had yesterday with an Admissions Dean at a T8 school might be relevant here. I'll call this Dean, Dean "X". I had inquired with Dean X about being a re-applicant whether I should gather new letters of recommendation (applied this past cycle). Dean X said that letters from professors I have taken courses with in the last two years was just fine. Dean X provided an example of an applicant that had a letter from a professor that they hadn't had a direct connection with for 4 years, would not be an advisable letter. Because they are considering your admission now, they want to know - ideally - within this last year, perhaps two, what kind of student and person are you. Someone 4 years removed from witnessing your performance and evaluating your work ethic might very well not know relevant information about the applicant anymore. For instance, Jonny Q-Lawapplicant has since developed a drinking habit and now is kind of a slacker and a liability. I am not saying this is you by any means, but what I am saying is that it was communicated to me just a day ago that a recommendation from someone that is beyond 2 years - or in a stretch 3 years - removed from seeing and evaluating your work is not the best reference. Just things to consider.

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General · How much do admissions committees really consider multiple LSAT scores?

nevadacity37335

Friday, Sep 01 2017

I attended a law school forum that had the Admissions Deans from all of the top 14 schools. The general sentiment among those deans was close to what Alex has been saying. The only point I make here is a small one that was shared at that forum. The LSAT is a predictive test for law schools (duh, right ?! :)) They prefer one score because one score has the most "predictive value" to them (LSAT test takers would disagree in many cases, but that is here nor there). If there are multiple scores, it just creates uncertainty in the predictive value the LSAT has regarding an applicant who is applying to that particular law school. If you have a 152, a 161 and a 170 in respective tests, what are you to make of the predictive value of the LSAT? It becomes more difficult, and an admissions officer's discretion and interpretation is going to become much more of a variable in your application. Do you infer as an admissions officer that the 170 was the fluke and that 161 was probably more accurate? Do you infer that this applicant didn't think things through enough - twice - regarding their preparation for the LSAT? Would they require 3 tries to pass the bar exam? Hence, Alex's statement about the net effect of multiple LSAT scores is likely not going to be positive beyond the value of a higher score over your previous test.

However, the cynic in me also knows that law schools - for the lack of better words - are largely slaves to statistics due to US N&R ranking formulas. It only behooves them to disregard your lower LSAT score, and for rankings they always report your highest. So really, does multiple LSAT scores hurt you that much? Most likely not. Do you invite uncertainty and an element of potential discretion that may or may not favor you as an applicant with multiple LSAT score? Most likely. But do you take an LSAT even though you know you aren't at your higher/highest potential just because you can? Highly questionable.

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Test Day Prep Prior to the Test

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