Science or statistics classes I find to actually be super helpful. In designing experiments, you often come across a lot of this kind of logic. Different from the usual philosophy answer but could still be useful!

One way that I job searched, did school full-time, including writing my thesis, and studied for the LSAT involved lots and lots of spreadsheets and tracking.

I had a spreadsheet for job searching, which helped me to keep track of my progress. I set goals for myself as well, stuff like: Find 3 potential postings on Indeed today, or Submit my resume to 3 jobs this week, or Write a cover letter for X job today. And then, once I had achieved that, I would stop with the job search to give myself time to study.

I also had a serious LSAT spreadsheet that I used. I made a schedule out for my week and followed it, alternating job search intensity with LSAT intensity. For example, if I had scheduled a PT for Thursday, I wouldn't do any job searching that day. But if I only had one section of LR scheduled that day, I would set a higher-effort job search goal.

Good luck!

I agree with @ --- the @ method is fantastic and it's how I structured my fool-proofing, with a few of my own adjustments (you can find it here: https://classic.7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/2737/logic-games-attack-strategy/p1)

For example

First try. If I get it within -0 and within the target time, I stop here.

If I didn't succeed on both goals, I watch the 7sage video.

I do it again the next day. If I don't get -0 and under time, I do it the next day (this step all over again.

Once I do get it -0 and under time, I wait a week and then do it again. Hopefully successfully--if not, repeat.

Ideally, this happens within 4 tries. I logged it all in my sheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yK-ux9iLzRF8c4zfJieZC7cXNuzPaAWEJtwT6BWVzxA/edit?usp=sharing) I would also highlight the cells of the game when I was not -0 and was taking too long, because it was a visual way to remind me to go back to that game.

But unlike @, I only printed each game out once. I would print each game out once, and do all the work on a scratch piece of paper--including the bubbling. The print-once-and-use-scratch-paper is not for everyone, but it worked for me! Happy to share more if needed.

Yale! (Speaking of which, I actually need to get my act together and send the paperwork in....)

LOL, I'm in the same place as your friend. They admitted a ton of people today, and the April 1 "deadline" for hearing a decision is ticking closer. Oh well!

I was DEVASTATED when I scored only one point higher than my first take on my second take. I didn't end up taking a third time, though, so I don't have much advice there. Also, a reminder that a 3 point drop isn't necessarily a drop, either, it's within the LSAT margin of error.

All I can say is what @ said--- keep doing what you're doing. Time is a huge factor in getting close to mastery. Avoid burnout---that's a serious danger heading into your third----and stay positive. Good luck!

Happy that keeping track of all the LR questions and going through the thought process helped! Congratulations on all your success, you should be proud!

I think there are two things that really helped me.

Writing out the explanations for every LR question I got wrong, explaining why the correct answer was correct and why the others weren't (especially important when I was down to two answers and picked the wrong one like you're doing). I kept these all in a spreadsheet, organized by question type, which is important because...

Using the analytics tracker and becoming more aware of what question types I was consistently getting wrong was huge for me. I realized I was getting the same types of questions wrong over and over again. It allowed me to see patterns in my thinking that led to those errors and patterns in the questions that made it easier to catch the correct answer. I also started writing the question type (i.e. "Flaw") next to those questions when I came across them in my section practice, which helped me signal to my brain that I needed to pay extra attention to this question. Finally, I took screenshots/photos on my phone of every LR question I got wrong, grouped them by question type, and would scroll through them on my phone or computer when I had a spare minute and review the logic in my head.

I actually think putting it on the desk is preferable! It's much easier to glance at mid test that way.

@ said:

@ said:

How would law schools know you used any consulting service?

Yale directly asks on their application.

Or sometimes, because something like your PS is phenomenally written, and then your writing sample elsewhere is sub par and totally different. They likely can guess you used consulting of some sort at least with your writing.

Former Dean Asha also warns against it coming to bite you in the future---which is unlikely, but carries serious risk with it. If, for example, you mention to another student you both used Mr. Potatohead's consulting, and in a casual conversation with an admissions person, that student mentions, "Oh, me and X both used Mr. Potatohead!" they could--while unlikely--possibly go back to your application and see that you lied, which would result in a whole world of problems, since ethics are everything in the legal world. Same goes if you take a test prep course with someone. It's really just not worth the risk, because getting caught in a lie could jeopardize your whole career.

(Disclosure: I got into YLS and didn't use consulting.)

I will step in on the side of working a full-time job + studying (which is what I did) immediately after graduation. I worked full time at a policy nonprofit, and I studied whenever I could-----on my train commute, when I got home, and on weekends. It was definitely hard, but I think it was worth it.

Pros: I think it made a difference for my application success. Working full-time in a field that relates to my law career goals (I want to go into public interest) I think helped back up my application. It also showed me that I don't want to do certain aspects of my job, a valuable lesson. And now that I've gotten in and have gone to Admitted Student Weekend and met other students, I'm so glad I spent the year after graduation working in public interest, especially after meeting my future peers who have lots of great work experience in their sectors and that relates to their law interests. Having been in the trenches offers concrete perspective that people who go straight through or who take the year off to study don't have.

Cons: Obviously, the time commitment was hard. I was exhausted sometimes and forcing myself to study after work or on weekends was challenging. I also purposely looked for a job that didn't expect crazy 50+ hour weeks (although coming right out of graduation you can definitely find an awesome entry level job that is both interesting but not overly arduous). It was also challenging to work full-time and come home and work on my application, but it is possible.

And I still managed to get a 172 with the full time job! So while it's not for everyone, I am so glad I decided to find a full-time job in public interest and study/apply at the same time. If you do this though make sure you have a serious plan in place for studying and don't stray from it. Good luck!

@ said:

I took a lot of my PT's at a public library so I could adapt to the crying children and background talking - I found this to be helpful.

Agreed with this. I once took a whole PT on a plane, and actually did OK. I also did sections, game foolproofing, blind reviewing, and overall studying: on the commuter rail to and from work every day, in the same living room where people were watching a movie/playing video games, in the university library, and in my quiet room.

Honestly getting good at tuning out distractions is crucial, because when you take the real test, there will be noise. Someone will be coughing, the proctor will get called out of the room and will keep walking around with loud footsteps, someone will be tapping their pencil on their desk, you'll be next door to a nightclub, whatever. Getting good at tuning out noise--or at least telling yourself you're good at it--will make a huge difference psychologically. I would honestly tell you to turn off your white noise and stop studying with it, except for maybe once in a while, because you may be actively working against your ability to ignore distractions!

@aisling said:

I'm practicing with a ballpoint pen (shudder) since it seems like that's what we'll have with the digital LSAT (I'm taking in September.)

I did all my foolproofing with a ballpoint pen, even though I took the paper LSAT! I actually think it's a good move--it completely restricts you from erasing when you do your scratch paper work, which takes time.

Also, as @ and @ say, I can't emphasize enough how useful it was to continue foolproofing every game I did, regardless if it was outside of 1-35 or if I had done them during a regular old PT.

I really think it depends on your goals. If you wanted to do something international-related, for example, or to work in politics, I'd say GULC. But for BigLaw, it does seem like Fordham and BU have good BigLaw outcomes.

They also have a leg-up over Georgetown in terms of geographic location if you don't want to end up in DC----- tons of BU grads work in Boston, and Fordham has good NYC connections. There's also the added perk that if you are already going to school in that city, you already have housing for summer internships in that city. (I.e. imagine you go to Georgetown but want to do summer work in NYC---- you'll have to add the cost of summer housing for a few months in NYC to your cost of living.)

I think you also should be aware that you may not get the same amount of money if you reapply to those schools at which you previously received scholarships. At the same time, with a little more work experience, you could end up getting even more money at those places or scholarships at good schools elsewhere. I'd say reapply, but you have to weigh your own pros and cons.

Good luck!

@ said:

@ said:

Congratulations! You had an incredible cycle, and should be so proud. (Also, I interviewed HLS in Feb and got waitlisted, so you're doing better than me by hanging in there!) Good luck in 1L. Maybe one day all of our lawyer paths will cross!

Thank you @ :) I feel so fortunate. Ahh! I will be rooting for you to get off of the WL. There’s surprisingly supposed to be a good deal of movement this spring/summer.

Unfortunately NYU’s deposit makes you withdraw all other outstanding apps I think. So, Harvard, if you're reading this ... please love me.

I will keep my fingers crossed for you!

Good luck, and yes, I can only hope that they do!

Haha, I actually gave up on HLS and am going elsewhere. Hanging around on the waitlist wasn't worth it for me! But I am rooting for you!

Congratulations! You had an incredible cycle, and should be so proud. (Also, I interviewed HLS in Feb and got waitlisted, so you're doing better than me by hanging in there!) Good luck in 1L. Maybe one day all of our lawyer paths will cross!

@ said:

This is amazing! Can I ask what your diagnostic score was?

I got a 165 on my diagnostic, which I know is kind of high, but I still feel really strongly that the strategy I used--including a lot of the tips above, which were gleaned from this forum--would help no matter your diagnostic! Good luck!

@ said:

Hi .. Congrats! I am so impressed. Could I speak with you on a personal note... need some advise.

Sure! Feel free to message me privately.

@ said:

I’m sorry but I’m so confused. How did you take the lsat feb and July 2019? I thought the historically scheduled February test was in March this year and we haven’t even gotten to July 2019 🤯

OH! My bad. I mean that I took the February 2018 test and the July 2018 test, and began studying December 2017. Sorry, I have no idea how dates work anymore, lol.

@ said:

Did you start studying in January 2018?

Actually December 2017, the day after Christmas. Took the test in February 2018 (171) and then in July 2018 (172, lol).

Edited: Had the years all wrong

@ said:

Do you mind writing out some sample RC & LR explanations for your foolproofing? Congrats on the score!!

Sure, here's an example (details changed):

LR: The correct answer is (B). The first sentence of the passage says, "On average, about 80 percent of the profit from chicken sales in Nebraska factories goes to farmers." 80 percent is most of the profits. Since it is "on average," this means that at least some of the factories do in fact have 80 percent of the profit going to farmers. Thus, the passage strongly supports answer (B), which says that "In at least some of the chicken-selling factories in Nebraska, most of the profits from chicken sales go to farmers.

RC: The answer is (B) because each paragraph clearly leads up to "explaining how the War Power Resolution is an attempt to reclaim a share of constitutionally concurrent power that had been usurped by the military." The first paragraph leads up to the conclusion with its final sentence which finishes, "in passing the War Power Resolution, Congress has at last reclaimed a role in such decisions" (23-25). The second paragraph explains the the way that the Vietnam conflict served to galvanize Congress to enact the War Powers Resolution. And the third paragraph describes the War Powers Resolution. The answer is not (C), because the passage does not actually describe any real struggle between the President and the Congress for control. Very little history is described, except for the lead-up to the War Powers Resolution.

I've heard from Yale alumns now doing AMAZING work in the public sector---literally many who took the exact path you describe of clerking, private, then public. It really seems like the opportunities at Yale are vast, especially for a few key reasons.

You don't have to fight for the top grades to compete or worry about rankings, which allows you to focus and spend your time building your resume doing the work you really care about, whether that's classes, clinics, research, etc (and remember that even if you're brilliant, law school curves mean that you are by no means guaranteed top grades)

The name gets you into doors that you otherwise would have to struggle for access to. You can, by many metrics, do almost anything with the opportunities and network and access that Yale offers.

(Also, don't know if you're eligible for Yale's COAP loan forgiveness program down the line, but even if you aren't----for other folks, Yale's program is really far and beyond what any other school offers, and it really has almost no restrictions on the type of work you can do---it covers public, private, academia, government work and it's really generous and cohesive.)

Ultimately, I think it really depends on your goals. You've described your career path, and I guess for me it isn't clear if you want a "unicorn" outcome or not. By public, do you mean ACLU or Human Rights Watch? Do you mean federal prosecutor or judge? By private, do you mean absolute certainty you'll be able to land a cushy Manhattan BigLaw firm? In that case, Yale.

But if you're looking to do public interest work at a less statistically unlikely level, and you want to do good, meaningful work at a less stratospheric level, I think T10 absolutely makes sense . It will be harder (more competitive) to get a clerkship, perhaps, but definitely within the realm of reasonable possibility, and you've made it this far. And money is freedom as well.

Good luck! You've got two amazing choices. Congratulations!

@ said:

@ Thank you for the master spreadsheet! On the sheets in the tracker for LR and RC, what is the PT'd column used for?

Hi! It's to distinguish whether or not I did a section as a stand-alone or as part of a PT.

Good tip!

Personally, I avoided making a million copies by only printing out one copy of each game and doing my work on a separate sheet of paper. Not everyone's cup of tea but it worked for me!

@ said:

Most applications don't open until at least the middle of September, so June puts you in a pretty good place.

Yeah, you can't really even apply between March-June for most schools. And @ is right. I took the July LSAT and applied in October, which is still really early. You'll be fine!