You are definitely not too old. I was 56 when I started law school. Just graduated from NYU this May and enjoyed it very much. You are also not too old to switch careers. As for age discrimination, I do get the feeling that some schools do age discriminate. I was accepted at Columbia and NYU so they didn’t discriminate against me despite my age. I can’t prove it but I felt some other schools did perhaps age discriminate but was glad I went to NYU as I found it to be a great school with a wonderful culture. As far as improving on the LSAT, I would recommend working with tutors. I wasted over one year studying on my own before finding a great tutor here on 7 sage. I would also recommend working with several tutors as they each can give you a different perspective but do it serially not in parallel. Max out on tips from one then advance to another. Good luck.

The thing that helped me the most was reading Elle Cassidy's book: Loophole in Logical Reasoning. The chapter on translation is especially helpful. Learning to translate the stimulus and pre-phrasing are the main skills that allowed me to go from -5 per LR section to -1 per LR section on test day. In addition, I found it very helpful to develop a 'checklist' of one to two items per LR question type so that I would quickly know my task for each question type before I went into the answer choices. For example, for 'role in argument' questions my 'checklist' is: "A, CR". Where A stands for Accurate description (usually the first part of each answer choice) and the CR stands for Correct Role. If the first part of the answer choice is not accurate description then you can kill that answer without reading any further. For the answer choice (s) that begin with an accurate description, keep reading the second part of and verify that the second part describes the 'Correct Role' (i.e. make sure that every word in the second part is correct). There are 17 question types in LR and you can develop a one or two step checklist for each question type. The checklist should be very simple as a complicated checklist is likely to be forgotten on test day with the anxiety and stress of test day. The goal is to have a checklist that works 85-90% of the time as a checklist that works a 100% of the time would be too long and unwieldly. Hope this helps. Happy to share my checklist is anyone wants to use mine as a template for making their own.

Sorry for delay in reply but there was a death in my family recently and just saw this. My checklist is just a few shorthand letters for each question type which would not make sense to someone else reading it. I have thought about making videos of it but have not had the chance I am a 1L now and quite busy. There are two of you on this thread that asked for the checklist. If you like you both can message me directly and we can set up a zoom call and I can walk you through some of the checklist as a courtesy. I am grateful to many 7 sagers who helped me in the past, so I am happy to give back. The checklist was key for me getting -1 on LR and getting 177 on final test.

I am happy to share my LR checklist. Just message me directly.

The thing that helped me the most was reading Elle Cassidy's book: Loophole in Logical Reasoning. The chapter on translation is especially helpful. Learning to translate the stimulus and pre-phrasing are the main skills that allowed me to go from -5 per LR section to -1 per LR section on test day. In addition, I found it very helpful to develop a 'checklist' of one to two items per LR question type so that I would quickly know my task for each question type before I went into the answer choices. For example, for 'role in argument' questions my 'checklist' is: "A, CR". Where A stands for Accurate description (usually the first part of each answer choice) and the CR stands for Correct Role. If the first part of the answer choice is not accurate description then you can kill that answer without reading any further. For the answer choice (s) that begin with an accurate description, keep reading the second part of and verify that the second part describes the 'Correct Role' (i.e. make sure that every word in the second part is correct). There are 17 question types in LR and you can develop a one or two step checklist for each question type. The checklist should be very simple as a complicated checklist is likely to be forgotten on test day with the anxiety and stress of test day. The goal is to have a checklist that works 85-90% of the time as a checklist that works a 100% of the time would be too long and unwieldly. Hope this helps.

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@ quick question: does that apply to questions you wouldn’t be able to prephrase? MBT questions, for example. I feel like I can come up with prephrases for those, but it’s unlikely it would be the actual AC.

MBT questions are a little harder to prephrase but I would just condense the facts as you go, pausing every sentence or to condense and translate into your own words. Then at the end of the stimulus just super condense the facts again and often you can then get a good prephrase. If not, one can quickly eliminate 2 or 3 obviously wrong answer choices and then focus in detail on the remaining answer choices. Last step would be to quickly point to the one or two portions of the stimulus that when combined prove the remaining answer to be correct.

I actually developed a very systematic simple checklist for each of the 16 or so LR question types, which really helped me stay on task. For example, my checklist for Main Conclusion questions is 1. Bracket what I think is MC (often found by skimming for conclusion indicators) 2. Paraphrase in my own words (S,V,O- subject, verb, object) the bracketed portion, being sure to fill in any referential phrase. 3. skim answer choices for paraphrase. Checklist has to be very simple with no more than 2 items on checklist for each question type. You can start with 2-4 items on checklist for each question type and trim it down with practice over time. Also, would recommend doing quality practice over quantity. After one year of studying (doing over 50 PTs) and taking the test four times I was stuck at 162 (153, 153, 158, 162). I then took a four month break and rethought my whole approach. I then studied only 5 PTs total before final test four months later when I got 177. I studied one question at a time over and over thinking about any tips about how I could have done that question faster. Doing lots of PTs is brain damage. I found that when I only did a small amount of quality studying every day and developed a systematic approach, studying became fun and I could see improvement almost week by week. To be fair, I had the help of several very good tutors but the most helpful thing was developing a checklist and systematic approach for each section and focusing on quality studying.

Totally agree with EbethStudent16. I took the test 5 times and eventually got 177 and got into Columbia and NYU. My scores after one year of studying and over 50 PTs of practice were 153,153,158,162. One of my best tutors recommended I wait another cycle and retake the test. I took a four month break and then started with a fresh new approach of quality over quantity and only studied 5 PTs but did one question at a time over and over till I picked up all the patterns and tips and four months later got a 177. Now, I am a 2L at NYU and am so glad I retook the test even despite having to wait for another cycle to apply. Don't settle is my advice to all.

I repeatedly had this same problem of a large test day drop and had to take the test 5 times to eventually get 177. There is no single solution that will work for every student but it can be overcome. The main things that eventually helped me were to simplify my process for each section and also finding ways to keep test day anxiety under control. For example, I made a very simple checklist for each type of LR question (see my old post on checklist) which had only two items on the checklist for each type of LR question. Checklists help one to stay focused under the stressful conditions on test day. This in turn, reduces anxiety. Anxiety on test day releases more adrenaline than you have on PTs at home and this can cause tunnel vision and make it harder to process complex problems (once the fight or flight reaction is triggered your brain is just focused on "running away from the tiger" and shuts off pathways that would help you reason out a LR stimulus). Thus, you have to simplify your process as much as possible and keep it very consistent. Also, find ways to reduce anxiety that work for you.

I agree with all three of the comments above in recommending waiting another cycle and retaking the lsat. I was in the same boat several years ago with a good gpa but lsat stuck at 162 after several attempts. I could have applied and gotten into some ok schools but my tutor recommended waiting a cycle and retaking the lsat one last time. I listened to that advice and got a 177 after four more months of intense study and got into Columbia and NYU. I am now a 3L at NYU and looking back, I am so glad I listened that that advice. Investing the effort and time to improve your application can have huge results in your future legal career. The job opportunities from T14 or higher are simply going to be much better. Given your gpa of 3.95, I would also suggest raising your goals from T14 to aiming for Harvard, Stanford, or Yale. Aim high. You can do it. I mentored a student who was in a similar situation to you two years ago. He had gotten into Cornell with a $110K scholarship but I advised him to turn it down and retake the lsat (he was stuck at 165). He listened and got a 175 next attempt and got into Yale the following cycle. He is a 1L at Yale now. Don’t settle

Yes, real time on average is 8 min 45 sec. Keep in mind easier passages can be done faster. I would do just do one or two passage per session until you get very skilled at killing the wrong answer choices as early as possible. Spending a lot more time on the second pass is most important.

I think I messaged everyone in this thread that asked for the checklist but message me if I missed someone. Just a bit overwhelmed with all the requests. Good luck to those taking the test this weekend.

When you are down to two, don't dig in as that increases anxiety which leads to errors. I find skipping the question and coming back with a fresh mindset (and rereading the stimulus) often makes it clear which to pick. Also, I found BR to be not very helpful for improving because it is 'blind' review....meaning that you can't fully remember your thought process at the end of a section. I did over 50 practice tests (over one year) with blind review and was plateaued at 162 despite several attempts at the test. I then focused on quality over quantity and studied just 5 LR questions per day doing one question at a time and immediately reviewing it after reviewing the right answer. This approach of immediate review allowed me to easily remember in detail my thought process and see where I went wrong. I noticed immediate improvement. I applied this same immediate feedback approach to RC and also noted rapid improvement. I only studied from 5 practice tests over the next few months and got a 177. If you want more details of how to do this you can message me.

If you have an iPad with a pencil, you can import the pdf of the games into a free app called Notability and you can then work on the iPad and erase the work on the iPad. Notability is a great app.

One thing that helped me go from -5 to -1 on LR was to develop a disciplined skipping strategy. I had a two step process for skipping and typically skipped 7-8 questions per LR section. First, I would translate carefully every stimulus paragraph and pause briefly to prephrase (I could typically prephrase about 70% of the questions). But, if after reading the stimulus paragraph I did not have a good prephrase, I would skip without reading the answers and come back to do it later. Second, if after reading the answers I was down to two or more possible answer choices, then I would not dig in and just skip the question and come back and do these questions later. Skipping has two major benefits, first it reduces anxiety and helps to prevent tunnel vision. Second, your brain will continue to process the question in the background and when you come back to the questions you will be more relaxed and more likely to see the right answer. When you come back reread the stimulus paragraph (you will be able to do this quickly as it is already familiar), then proceed. I would similarly skip questions in RC.

Sorry for the typos. Just tired

I found LSAT studying became more fun when I just did a short bursts of quality studying each day. For example, I wasted over one year doing the typical timed PTs and blind review without much progress. Surprisingly, my real progress came when I just started doing one question as a time but studied is over and over till I could see patterns for how to eliminate the wrong answers more quickly and how to recognize the right answer. This became like a fun puzzle. I did just one Logic came per day, 5 LR questions, and one RC passage but studied one question at a time with immediate feedback loop. I stopped doing timed PTs and rapidly improved. Eventually got a 177. Also, recommend a book called a way of life by William Osler. It is only 30 pages or so. Changed my life. Osler was one of the four founding fathers of of Johns Hopkins Medical School and this book is from a lecture he gave to medical students about how to be successful in life. His lessons apply to anyone, not just medical student. Hope this helps

For RC, I recommend practicing spaced repetition and recapping every 3-5 sentences. LSAT hacks has a good article on space repetition. The next thing that helped me was to read each answer slowly clause by clause and kill any answer choice that is inaccurate very early. By going slowly you can often kill most of the wrong answers after the first clause or two without even having to read past the first line. Third, I always do a vertical scan of the answer choices to just check the first clause or even just the first 3-4 words and often can eliminate one or two answer choices quickly and then just focus on the ones that are left. Just eliminating even one or two answers saves time and builds confidence. I can share more RC tips if this seems helpful.

Focus on quality rather than quantity of practice. For example, do just 5 questions of LR each session but do one question at a time and do immediate feedback loop to spot the patterns for how you could have done the question faster. Also, make a checklist (short just 2 tips) for each type of LR question. I can share a checklist that I found helpful when I took the test a while back. I posted about it over one year ago and three students messaged me this week who found my old post and asked for the LR checklist. Happy to share and give back to 7 sage.

I agree with the recommendation by @ re Ellen Cassidy's Loophole book on LR. The first chapter on how to do translations is very helpful with both LR and RC. I admire your persistence with self study with various books. You may want to consider getting a private tutor. I tried self study for over a year and took the LSAT 4 times and was plateaued at 162 (my initial diagnostic was in the 140s, then 153, 153, 158, 162) before I started working with private tutors. I worked with 7 different tutors in all before I found the two that worked best for me. Tutors may seem expensive but in my experience the cost is more than made up by the scholarships that you may get with a higher lsat score. After 3-4 months of private tutors I eventually got to 177. I simply could not have done that without private tutors as they gave me perspectives that got me past plateaus. I would first start with less expensive tutors such as the many good tutors available via 7 sage, which is what I did. I also worked with professional tutors such as Ellen Cassidy and Kyle Pasewark among others. I found no one tutor is perfect but rather better to work a bit with several till you find the one or two that works best for you. Feel free to message me if you want details of the pros and cons of various tutors I worked with.

I am 57 and just finished my 1L year at NYU. It was tougher than I thought it would be but I am glad I pursued it. Not sure if my advice is totally relevant as I am not going to practice law but am just doing it to learn and to keep my brain sharp. Nonetheless, I would say you are never too old to go to any school. I like law school so much that I am trying to convince both of my kids to go to law school at some point in their career. Go in with eyes open, however, as I agree with the post about it being tougher these days to get good jobs in law but don't be deterred as good people are always in demand. It is important to get into the best law school you possibly can and to do well in law school. Do not rush to apply and do not take the LSAT till you are able to get 2-3 points above your goal score. Before you start law school, I would highly recommend the LEEWS system for law school exams. Good luck.

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I would highly recommend working with a private tutor. I was stuck at 162 after several attempts. Then worked with two of the best tutors and got a 177 after 4 months of additional study after understanding the test much better. The tutors were expensive as they are well known and in high demand but were well worth the investment as I got into Columbia and NYU. Working with private tutors was well worth the investment.

Do you mind sharing who your tutors were?

I don't mind sharing the tutors I worked with. I went through about 6 six tutors before I found the two best. It may be better to dm me so I can speak more freely about what were the pros and cons of each.

I would highly recommend working with a private tutor. I was stuck at 162 after several attempts. Then worked with two of the best tutors and got a 177 after 4 months of additional study after understanding the test much better. The tutors were expensive as they are well known and in high demand but were well worth the investment as I got into Columbia and NYU. Working with private tutors was well worth the investment.

Your big drop on test day versus PTs done at home is most likely due to test day anxiety. I had the same problem. Also, no need to do so many PTs. Quality is more important than quantity. Lastly, developing a systematic approach to each section is key to solving test to test variability and will also decrease anxiety as your muscle memory will kick in when you get flustered. I had the same problem. It took me nearly 2 yrs of studying and taking the LSAT five times to go from 153 to 177. For the first four attempts over 1 1/2 yrs I did over 50 PTs and only got to 162 despite having even worked with a number of private tutors. Then I took a 4 month break and decided to change everything I did. First, I focused on quality over quantity. I only studied from 5 PTs total before the next attempt when I got a 177. I focused on doing one question at a time (no timed sections) and did each question over and over till I understood every pattern I could see. For LR and RC I tried to figure out what was the first word that I could kill a wrong answer choice at (I found that I could kill most wrong answer choices in LR or RC with just reading typically no more than just a few words). This gave me speed and accuracy. I also developed a simple checklist for all 17 or so types of LR questions that kept me focused on my task (you can look up a recent post on making a checklist for LR that I did last month). Test taking anxiety can be treated. I agree with many posts about meditation, etc. which works for mild anxiety but for those who have severe anxiety telling them to "breathe" and "meditate" is not going to solve the problem. There is a simple safe solution to this. I used to be an ER doctor before going to law school (I am a 1L now) and there is a medication that blocks adrenaline that is commonly and safely used by actors and musicians for stage fright. I have found that this medication works very well for LSAT students with severe test taking anxiety. I have mentioned this before and have seen good results with LSAT students that had similar 8-12 point drops on test day that were resolved on their next attempt with this medication. The dosing of the medication is important and should be practiced on timed sections with and without medication as too little medication will not help but too much can affect focus. To more accurately determine dosing I would recommend stressing yourself by doing sections in 25-30 min rather than 35 min to elicit a greater level of anxiety and adrenaline release (which you will likely have on test day) and compare results with and without medication under similar conditions. Either way don't give up. You can solve this.

Admin Note: Do not take medical advice from users on this Forum. Consult your own doctors.

I agree with logician and the others. Do t give up. I had the same problem as you. I had to take the test 5 times over two years before I finally got a 177. I used to be an ER doctor and there is a very safe and effective medicine that can block adrenaline just enough to help as well. It has been used for decades for stage fright by actors and I have seen it work well for several students I met here on 7 sage. It requires a bit of fine tuning to find the optimal dose to block the adrenaline just the right amount to block test day anxiety but not mess up reasoning and focus. Don’t want to give medical advice on a public forum but you can message me. Don’t give up

Admin Note: Do not take medical advice from users on this Forum. Consult your own doctors.

I think I messaged everyone in that asked for the checklist with my email so that I can email the the checklist but let me know if I missed someone. Another key thing I would recommend is a simple system for skipping questions. I posted about this before so check my previous comment on skipping. I found it very helpful to skip from 5-7 questions per LR section.