If you had only /C, then no.. you couldn't have A. However... You could totally have B on its own. There's nothing saying that B couldn't survive off on its own, independent of /A and a /C.

For the games, yes.

It's not a "No." Just a "not yet." It's only a No if you give up ;)

I have heard anecdotes from Americans who have had this problem; they retook the lsat and reapplied the following cycle and did great. I skipped a cycle because I knew I didn't have a good enough score to get what I wanted. This cycle, I got one point away from my goal, and my outcome was great. If you want it, keep at it. It's only one cycle.

@ said:

I had a 3.78 GPA in college but this damn LSAT is a tough nut to crack. I think if I could score in the high 160s it might make the jump worth it. But working 60 plus hours a week makes studying near impossible with a family. Trying to eclipse 150 has been tough sledding..

I work and have a family to handle, plus rural living demands (fence mending, wood cutting and stacking, driving long distances for groceries and doctors, etc). I started my LSAT study while I was taking very heavy semester loads for my BA, too. In total, my LSAT journey took ~1.5 years, and I went from very low 150's to low-mid 160's (I probably could have gone higher, but I was happy with where that score got me and didn't want to wait another cycle).

It sucks, but for those of us with obligations, it just takes longer. And that's okay. Trust me when I say my results were 1,000% worth the time I spent. I believe there is at least one other in these forums who took over 2 years to get their desired result, and they would also say the time spent was worthwhile.

If you want this, you can make it happen. Just don't compare your journey to some 20-something who can spend most of their day, uninterrupted, studying the LSAT. Of course they're going to see results faster. It felt like it took forever before something clicked for me. And then, bam! Done. On to admissions. On to telling schools that offered a full-ride "no" because I have some great options (that one was the most mind-blowing moment aside from realizing my last LSAT score meant I was finally done and going to law school). It's just time and effort to get there, and no one can tell you how much time it will take.

Speaking as someone living in a rural area, yeah.. if you're going to survive, you have to do it all. Town attorneys also work in other areas: defense, contracts, family law... everything really. It's how you survive. Smaller population, so fewer clients. Beggars cant be choosers, I suppose. But they all seem to do rather well.

Now.. to the question posed by the OP.

"Why?" Like you, I had always had this draw towards law and logical arguments, philosophy and ethics. Some mentors in my life nudged me towards law, and I always brushed it off. Not so much because of grades, like your situation. I was a great student, but because people of my class and sex didn't go on to become doctors and lawyers. And so I lived a more "appropriate" life, and it just wasn't right. I couldn't do enough to make it right that I gave up what I had wanted and was living a life that was expected of me instead. I went back to school to get my BA and a friend who was a lawyer told me about the scholarship opportunities available that he used foir law school, and it changed everything for me. I had always assumed it would be out of my reach, financially. I did not come from money. So I researched. I talked to lawyers everywhere around me. I sat in during court cases just to watch what the day-to-day looked like. I wound up siting for jury duty and seeing that side (I still wonder if it's because I visited the court so often LOL). It was not a fun case, and it was emotionally draining. But the experience just made me even more interested in it all rather than less.

If, for some reason, I get through it and find out I hate it... I'll have a graduate degree. There's a number of doors that open just with a higher level degree. I have a full-ride offer, so I'm essentially getting a grad degree for free and just have to cover living expenses. But I doubt I will hate it. And there's literally no downside to this for me, so why not go for it?

Awesome! Congrats!!

Oh man... I know this pain. Post CC, I improved a whole 3 Lsat points from my initial diagnostic, which was the same as yours. I wanted to rage quit on my computer right then and there. I felt like I wasted a couple months. But, I didn't, and I'm glad for that. And you shouldn't feel bad about this, either. The CC gives you the basic tools, but it takes a lot of practice with those tools to get anywhere. Like taking a painting class. Yeah, you saw it being done. You know what the brush and the paint is. But until you put in some hours, you're not going to be doing real super work.

I went through the CC again a second time and slowed down. I was so worried about making better time and not "Do I understand this?" If you can't look at a problem and tell someone else why each answer choice is wrong and why the correct answer choice is the only one that could be right, then you don't have a full understanding. I didn't. And it took me quite a while before I started getting it. But once I started getting to that point, my score improved. I gained over 10 points and hit the 160's. Probably could have gone higher with more time, but I came within 2 points of my goal and ran with it. I'll be in school this fall :)

If you watch an explanation over and over again and still don't get why an answer is the way it is, ask the 7sage community! They're very helpful, and someone may be able to say it in just the right way that it suddenly clicks. I had a few moments like that where I needed to hear someone else's explanation. That's totally okay.

The others here make a great point about the games, though. It really is an area that you can get -5 or lower on with some practice. If I could do it, I know you can. I was absolutely failing that section in the beginning. It takes work, but once you get to that point, you'll be picking up a lot of points!

I absolutely agree with @ on the 1-35 games. You'll get a taste of just about every game setup possible in the first 35 games. When you can get to a point where you start reading a game and you know instantly how that game board is going to start to shape up (is it in a row? two rows across from each other in a neighborhood? ordering? in-out? in-out with sub categories? chart? circle?), you're on the right track. Do enough games and you'll start seeing the same patterns over and over. The Dinosaur toys in the shop display game? You'll see something similar to it in the Dog Show game from Lsat 2. Both are in/out with subcategories with just a few tweaks that make them different. If you can do one, you can probably tackle the other pretty well. There are multiple versions of the same types used over and over again in the tests. Learn them, practice them and when you see a game just like an older one in a new test, you'll be all over it. This takes time, but it's well worth the effort.

Good luck! You can do this!

This is awesome! Thank you!

Real talk: not this cycle. Any school that would take you with that score is not worth going to, and is likely predatory. I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but it's true.

That being said, you are capable of so much more. A 3.5 in finances? Absolutely!! You can do this.

For some of us, the test is so different than how we think, we have to completely unlearn and relearn how to think. It's hard, but it's worth it. For some folks, this process takes a year or two of pretty constant study and thinking. It took me 1.5 years to get it done between school and work and family, but I will be a law student this fall in a great school. Give it another cycle. A higher score can get you in a good school, and with money to boot! Delaying a cycle, for me, allowed me to come up ~10 points, and I have full-ride offers now. Was that year delay worth 80k+? You betchya it was. Don't give up.

You're fine. I found similar issues on mine when I submitted to multiple schools, I emailed the schools, and they were like "Okay! Fixed. Thanks for letting us know." No worries at all to tell admissions there was a dumb mistake. It happens.

Nope. I had three scores total, with a big jump on the last one. You should be fine wth a couple attempts, as long as you get your goal score at the end. After say, 5 takes, though... it may be looked down on a little.

If I calculate everything I've ever done together, LSAC is off by -.03. The difference from my degree GPA, though, is a quarter of a point.

37 here, and coming from a very similar situation as @ (sans one kid). Took me longer than I wanted to for the LSAT, but I stuck with it. You absolutely can learn it!! Now, I'm heading to law school this fall.

Difference from university gpa? -0.25. Difference from all of my grades averaged out? -0.03 Wasn't worth it to argue over that -0.03 since my grades are above everyone's 75th, but it's proof that sometimes they get it wrong.

~1.5 years. Wound up with 1 point lower than the score goal I had set for myself, decided I was good with that, and I went with it. In admissions now, and I'm in at 3 schools, waiting on a few more to respond.

Your journey will be different than anyone else's. Just keep going until you get where you want to be.

Edit: Pre7sage diagnostic was barely in the 150's. Ended up with a 12 point gain. Might have been able to keep going, but I was so close to my goal, that I was done with it.

I went back and forth between part time study and nearly full time study, as life dictated.

No idea on how to make it work with a baby, but I am a parent. Luckily, my kid is old enough to do basic functions and use a smart phone, so not as big a concern on them surviving. However, I do remember the baby days, and I will say this: use your tribe. Family, friends, whoever. Use all and any help offered. All those people who said they would love to babysit? Well, now is their chance! Grandparents? Bring them in. Use any and all resources you can.

@ said:

thanks so much for the input! @ how do you go about getting a fee waiver?

Many times, the school will waive the fees automatically and mention that in an email or letter. When you go in to do an application, it'll usually tell you at the disclosure of the fees when you begin whether or not there is a fee waiver on file or not. You still have to always pay the stupid LSAC fee of $45, but not having to pay an additional school fee is quite nice. All of the waivers I had were unsolicited... they just did it and sent me notice that they did. You can ask for them, though, from some schools. Some wont give you a fee waiver unless you're poor. Stanford is one of those schools.

This is a bit dated, but roughly, this kind of shows what a fee waiver looks like: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=129078

Now days, it doesn't mention a CRS waiver, but it does reflect that the school has no charges. If you dont see a waiver mentioned or the school amount is 0, then you dont have a waiver.

@ said:

Please keep posting updates as time allows. It's great for pre-law students to have these stories.

For real. If all schools are like this, knowing what to expect is very helpful.

Remind me.. what school did you wind up going to?

I did 6. It depends on what you think is right for you. You want a few safeties and a couple reaches, at least. Maybe a few that are on the upper end of reach to later use for negotiation purposes? You don't have to go overboard and do like 20+, but don't sell yourself short, either. I had fee waivers for every application I made, so it only cost about $270 in fees for that ("only" :disappointed:)

Present tense is usually thought of as being stronger than past tense. It's more direct.

RC didn't improve drastically for me until I learned to summarize in my own way. I tried symbols and underlining and one word summaries like JY and all teach.. but it just wasn't quite enough. Instead, I read it like I was going to have to explain this to my spouse or my boss at the next meeting. You want to understand it enough that you can explain it easily and quickly to another person and answer some questions about it, and retain enough detail that you know exactly where to find it to clarify if you needed specific details. Like, how do you tell your friend about a book you read? What kinds of words do YOU use? If your friend asked you about a specific line, you'd know right where to find it, right? If you can do all that with an LSAT rc section, you've got it.

Put your summaries into terms and wordings you understand naturally. I didn't even have to write reminders anymore. I just summarized in my head as I went paragraph by paragraph.

In short..put things in your own words and into your own understanding.

Were you there in July, by chance...?