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2018 USNWR Rankings

The 180 Bro_OVOThe 180 Bro_OVO Alum Inactive ⭐
edited March 2017 in Law School Admissions 1392 karma

1) Yale
2) Stanford
3) Harvard (-1)
4) U Chicago
5) Columbia (-1)
6) NYU
7) Penn
8) Michigan
8) UVA
10) Duke (+1)
10) Northwestern (+2)
12) Berkeley (-4)
13) Cornell
14) UT Austin (+1)
15) Georgetown (-1)
15) UCLA (+2)
17) Vanderbilt (-1)
18) WUSTL
19) USC
20) Iowa
20) Notre Dame (+2)
22) Emory
23) Boston U (-3)
23) U Minnesota (-1)
25) Arizona State
26) Boston College (+4)
26) Alabama (+2)
28) UC Irvine
28) Washington and Lee (+12)
30) GWU (-5)
30) Indiana U Bloomington (-5)
30) Ohio State
30) U Georgia (+3)
30) U Washington (+3)
30) U Wisconsin Madison (+3)
36) Fordham (+1)
36) U Colorado Boulder (+4)
36) Wake Forest (+4)
39) UC Davis (-9)
39) UNC (-1)
41) William and Mary (-8)
41) George Mason (+4)
41) U Florida (+7)
44) U Illinois Urbana-Champaign (-4)
44) U Utah (+1)
46) BYU (-8)
46) SMU (-1)
48) FSU (+2)
48) U Arizona (-8)
48) U Maryland

GTown has been knocked out of the T14
Wo.

Rankings!
  1. Are you surprised by the rankings?89 votes
    1. Yes
      33.71%
    2. No
      14.61%
    3. Too busy working on the LSAT to care
      30.34%
    4. Harvard will always be #1 to me
      21.35%

Comments

  • AlejandroAlejandro Legacy Member Inactive ⭐
    2424 karma

    Holy crap!

  • BinghamtonDaveBinghamtonDave Alum Member 🍌🍌
    8673 karma

    Anyone care to delineate what is going on with Berkley on this list? Seems like quite a drastic drop. Berkley is my #1 school and what I am working towards getting into, so I always take note when I see them.

  • AlexAlex Alum Member
    23929 karma

    Not surprised but also still kind of surprised. People have been talking about GT being knocked out of the T14 since like 2008, lol. Finally. Not that I care one way or another or it will matter THAT much.

  • AlexAlex Alum Member
    23929 karma

    @BinghamtonDave said:
    Anyone care to delineate what is going on with Berkley on this list? Seems like quite a drastic drop. Berkley is my #1 school and what I am working towards getting into, so I always take note when I see them.

    Hmm... I've heard so many theories and just have no idea which have any credibility. I wouldn't let the drop stop you from going there.

  • danielznelsondanielznelson Alum Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    4181 karma

    Whoa!!! This is for me at least REALLY shocking! Haha, UT is going to get so many more applicants now.

  • danielznelsondanielznelson Alum Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    4181 karma

    And really glad for my sake that UVA and Michigan are tied.

  • JustDoItJustDoIt Alum Member
    edited March 2017 3112 karma

    Am I the only one who is surprised by no changes to NYU and Penn?

  • JustDoItJustDoIt Alum Member
    edited March 2017 3112 karma

    I can see Cambridge from my office, but it feels just a little bit closer now :wink:

  • TheMikeyTheMikey Alum Member
    4196 karma

    harvard and Stanford surprised me, but the rest of the changes didn't

  • stgl1230stgl1230 Legacy Member
    821 karma

    Hasn't GULC fallen out of the #14 spot before? I feel like GULC and UT have switched spots at least once but maybe I'm making it up?

    Also I wouldn't worry about Berk too much. Rankings fluctuate year to year. It happens. It's still T14 for a reason.

  • bjphillips5bjphillips5 Alum Member
    1137 karma

    @BinghamtonDave said:
    Anyone care to delineate what is going on with Berkley on this list? Seems like quite a drastic drop. Berkley is my #1 school and what I am working towards getting into, so I always take note when I see them.

    My best guess is that it's related to how others (law schools and judges/lawyers) evaluated Boalt in the aftermath of the scandal involving former Dean Choudhry. I don't think it should be a big factor as the scandal will likely dissipate in evaluators' minds. Plus, there are problems with the USNWR rankings, some of which hurt Berkeley more than others (i.e. LSAT/GPA). https://www.lstreports.com/guides/Value-of-US-News-Rankings/

    I'm far more curious to see everyone's NALP (employment) reports and their new Law School Transparency scores. They should be out sometime mid-April.

    Berkeley is still on par with much of the rest of the T13/14. I wouldn't read too much into this ranking drop. And for further context, here's the past five years of USNWR rankings in one chart (excluding the latest rankings): http://tippingthescales.com/2016/03/yale-crowned-top-law-school-2017-u-s-news-ranking/4/

  • nessa.k13.0nessa.k13.0 Legacy Inactive ⭐
    4141 karma

    I've heard that GT grads were having a harder time (in recent years) competing with graduates from other schools for SCOTUS clerkships and jobs. Job placement and viability comprises a fraction of each school's USNWR score.

  • westcoastbestcoastwestcoastbestcoast Alum Member
    edited March 2017 3788 karma

    Wow Washington and Lee went up 12 ranks!

  • EmmaWI88EmmaWI88 Alum Member
    213 karma

    What's going on with BU?

    Literally got an email from them today waitlisting me. I was pissed. Yet, I have a full ride to Iowa which used to tie you?

    Location, location, location.

  • stgl1230stgl1230 Legacy Member
    821 karma

    @"nessa.k13.0" said:
    I've heard that GT grads were having a harder time (in recent years) competing with graduates from other schools for SCOTUS clerkships and jobs. Job placement and viability comprises a fraction of each school's USNWR score.

    This is true. I'm not sure why GULC isn't cutting their class size.

    I think that the arrival of Texas at #14 is attributed more to a slight decline on GULC's part than a rise in Texas's numbers. Sorry Texas, I still think you're great though.

  • stgl1230stgl1230 Legacy Member
    821 karma

    @EmmaWI88 said:
    What's going on with BU?

    Literally got an email from them today waitlisting me. I was pissed. Yet, I have a full ride to Iowa which used to tie you?

    Location, location, location.

    I've heard that some weird stuff is going on with Boston schools this cycle.

  • EmmaWI88EmmaWI88 Alum Member
    213 karma

    @stgl1230 DO TELL PLEASE.

  • stgl1230stgl1230 Legacy Member
    edited March 2017 821 karma

    @EmmaWI88 said:
    @stgl1230 DO TELL PLEASE.

    Sorry if my post sounded juicy, I didn't mean for it to sound that way! I didn't apply to any Boston schools. I just heard lots of complaints from friends. They had numbers that should put them in acceptance + big scholarship range at BU and BC but it didn't really happen. They might be trying to raise their medians and are being more aggressive than usual.

    Edit: It could also be a yield thing.

  • EmmaWI88EmmaWI88 Alum Member
    213 karma

    Yeah I was surprised. I fell right in line with BU's numbers but they may be doing a rankings thing. Wonder how they'll feel about that now that they dropped down. I did get into BC however.

  • combsnicombsni Member
    652 karma

    Rutgers made yuuuuge gains

  • cgracia12cgracia12 Alum Member
    edited March 2017 737 karma

    I know they are in the lower tier... But Texas A&M moving up the ranks 19 spots this year and I believe 15 spots last year?! What exactly are they doing to get these huge gains?! WHOOP!! GIG'EM AGS! (c/o'13) :D

  • Accounts PlayableAccounts Playable Alum Sage
    3107 karma

    Not surprised by Georgetown nor Harvard. Bit surprised by Berkeley. Extremely surprised by Columbia: I had a bet with a buddy that Columbia would jump to 3 and tie Harvard. Looks like I owe him a beer.

  • TexAgAaronTexAgAaron Legacy Member
    1723 karma

    @cgracia12 Whooooop!!! Yes, they are one of the few schools expanding. A ton of undergrad Ags that are attorneys are dumping money into the school. They're planning to keep the classes small though. I expect them to keep climbing.

    My only concern though is the jobs. Only 4 years old. The ABA jobs report will be very telling; interested to see who is hiring them. Should be a major player in Texas down the road but right now their reputation is not much at this point. Gig'em! Class of '16 A-Whoooop!!!

  • texvd1988texvd1988 Legacy Member
    605 karma

    Geeeeeezzzz. This really hurts my ego even more. UTA going t14 when I most likely won't get in succccckkkkkkkksssssssss.

  • stgl1230stgl1230 Legacy Member
    821 karma

    @accountformerlyknowasvd1988 said:
    Geeeeeezzzz. This really hurts my ego even more. UTA going t14 when I most likely won't get in succccckkkkkkkksssssssss.

    If it helps, if you look at the raw scores, UT didn't increase their raw index score at all - they actually lost one point. They are only in #14 because Georgetown lost three points or so. So I don't think that would impact your admissions offer.

    Speaking of index scores, what's going on with the T13 this year? It seems like almost everyone's index score dropped. The only real "gain" was by Northwestern. Any other T13 (or 14 if you still want GULC) that went up a rank did so purely because someone ranked ahead of them fell.

  • danielznelsondanielznelson Alum Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    4181 karma

    @accountformerlyknowasvd1988 said:
    Geeeeeezzzz. This really hurts my ego even more. UTA going t14 when I most likely won't get in succccckkkkkkkksssssssss.

    The T14 is probably now all but officially the T13, as that name includes the top schools that haven't moved out of the top since the inception of the rankings. So it's not as if you're missing out even more than before, in my opinion, should you not be admitted. Not sure if that's what could be called "good news," haha.

  • texvd1988texvd1988 Legacy Member
    605 karma

    @danielznelson said:

    @accountformerlyknowasvd1988 said:
    Geeeeeezzzz. This really hurts my ego even more. UTA going t14 when I most likely won't get in succccckkkkkkkksssssssss.

    The T14 is probably now all but officially the T13, as that name includes the top schools that haven't moved out of the top since the inception of the rankings. So it's not as if you're missing out even more than before, in my opinion, should you not be admitted. Not sure if that's what could be called "good news," haha.

    Hahaha. In a weird way, it actually made be feel better.

    High five.

  • texvd1988texvd1988 Legacy Member
    605 karma

    @akeegs92 said:
    @cgracia12 Whooooop!!! Yes, they are one of the few schools expanding. A ton of undergrad Ags that are attorneys are dumping money into the school. They're planning to keep the classes small though. I expect them to keep climbing.

    My only concern though is the jobs. Only 4 years old. The ABA jobs report will be very telling; interested to see who is hiring them. Should be a major player in Texas down the road but right now their reputation is not much at this point. Gig'em! Class of '16 A-Whoooop!!!

    Had to come back here and comment. I just got accepted here, and with their low tuition rates and the scholarship money they are giving me, plus the possible expansion of reputation in the future, I am honestly considering going here (I didn't get into UTA). Their acceptance standards are pretty rigorous, and it seems like they are committed to climbing up. T2 is not UTA, but the cost and possible expansion is extremely enticing to me.

  • TexAgAaronTexAgAaron Legacy Member
    1723 karma

    @texvd1988 Yeah I think they're only accepting about 20% of applicants. They're definitely on my radar. Did they give you a full ride if you don't mind me asking?

  • jknaufjknauf Alum Member
    1736 karma

    I wonder what the hell is going on with GW?

  • nessa.k13.0nessa.k13.0 Legacy Inactive ⭐
    4141 karma

    @jknauf yikes -5...yeah not a good year for GW or GT. Perhaps GW failed to have as great employment upon graduation stats and lower their class sizes?

  • texvd1988texvd1988 Legacy Member
    605 karma

    @akeegs92 said:
    @texvd1988 Yeah I think they're only accepting about 20% of applicants. They're definitely on my radar. Did they give you a full ride if you don't mind me asking?

    Will be receiving the money via email Wednesday. Will post back. I should be competitive for at least half off since I exceed their LSAT range, but my gpa is below their median.

    Either way, 28k per year for a possibly great law school in the future seems like an investment I would make if it were a business.

    I am extremely curious. I just need to see what SMU and Houston offer.

  • texvd1988texvd1988 Legacy Member
    605 karma

    @akeegs92 said:
    @texvd1988 Yeah I think they're only accepting about 20% of applicants. They're definitely on my radar. Did they give you a full ride if you don't mind me asking?

    They gave me 56k. So I basically only have to pay a years worth of tuition at 28k over three years (not including living expenses, obviously).

  • TexAgAaronTexAgAaron Legacy Member
    1723 karma

    Wow! That's awesome! Congrats! I've heard they're pretty generous with their money.

  • texvd1988texvd1988 Legacy Member
    605 karma

    @akeegs92 said:
    Wow! That's awesome! Congrats! I've heard they're pretty generous with their money.

    From what I have seen- anything above a 162 basically gets you a full ride so aim for that if that's what you want.

  • TexAgAaronTexAgAaron Legacy Member
    1723 karma

    Really?? That is a very helpful tidbit of information. Thanks!

  • cgracia12cgracia12 Alum Member
    737 karma

    Dude, that's awesome and really motivating.. Congrats! @texvd1988 and @akeegs92 , where did you hear or read about them accepting 20% of applicants?

  • TexAgAaronTexAgAaron Legacy Member
    1723 karma

    @cgracia12 I know Law School Numbers had that statistic. In addition, I there have been various other law school sites that have mentioned this. I also am a recent graduate of Texas A&M and one of the advisers and a couple of law school recruiters have told me that they are trying to keep the class sizes small to enhance the learning experience.

    Don't let that discourage you though if you are interested in applying there. Their medians aren't super high. They are one of the big risers in the rankings the past 3 years (from NR to 90's). Extremely young school that is starting to gain traction and reputation in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. And knowing Texas A&M very well, they will make it a power house down the road because that is just what A&M does.

  • cgracia12cgracia12 Alum Member
    737 karma

    @akeegs92 I don't doubt they will be a powerhouse down the line either... Ever since Johnny Football left, the school and old ags have been throwing ridiculous money around everywhere. Good luck, thanks and gig'em! (c/o 2013)

  • TexAgAaronTexAgAaron Legacy Member
    1723 karma

    @cgracia12 Anytime! Gig'em! (c/o 2016)

  • texvd1988texvd1988 Legacy Member
    605 karma

    @akeegs92 said:
    @cgracia12 I know Law School Numbers had that statistic. In addition, I there have been various other law school sites that have mentioned this. I also am a recent graduate of Texas A&M and one of the advisers and a couple of law school recruiters have told me that they are trying to keep the class sizes small to enhance the learning experience.

    Don't let that discourage you though if you are interested in applying there. Their medians aren't super high. They are one of the big risers in the rankings the past 3 years (from NR to 90's). Extremely young school that is starting to gain traction and reputation in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. And knowing Texas A&M very well, they will make it a power house down the road because that is just what A&M does.

    Yep. they are down to 19% in LSN in terms of their overall acceptance. That's pretty low especially considering that LSN counts you as a matriculated student unless you directly specify that you withdrew. So some numbers there end up being inflated.

    As for what you are saying, that is exactly what my wife told me and why I slowly gaining steam on A&M. I am not from Texas and know very little about schools here (moved here a year and a half ago). She's a Texan since birth, and told me that it came as no surprise that A&M is trying to climb the ladder. She basically said that they have the money, alumni, and status to become as powerful a program as any other in Texas.

    It's really something that's making me give it huge consideration. Though I do worry about my job prospects in San Antonio since that is where I want to practice. It seems like A&M may be best for Dallas/ Ft. Worth, but A&M normally has a solid reputation all over Texas so I am not sure if my chances for a job will be diminished either way.

  • texvd1988texvd1988 Legacy Member
    605 karma

    Also, considering they took Wesleyan from the depths of Obscurity to T2 in a matter of years, I think you guys are bang on.

  • TexAgAaronTexAgAaron Legacy Member
    1723 karma

    @texvd1988 You'd be correct in that outside of DFW, their pull is a bit questionable. It obviously helps to be an alumni from undergrad but Aggies always try to help other Aggies and I would venture to bet that this would be the case with law school as well. In a couple of years, yes they may be able to do well in San Antonio but for right now it would be a stretch though not impossible. They're just a young school.

  • texvd1988texvd1988 Legacy Member
    605 karma

    @akeegs92 said:
    @texvd1988 You'd be correct in that outside of DFW, their pull is a bit questionable. It obviously helps to be an alumni from undergrad but Aggies always try to help other Aggies and I would venture to bet that this would be the case with law school as well. In a couple of years, yes they may be able to do well in San Antonio but for right now it would be a stretch though not impossible. They're just a young school.

    Yep- and this is where I am having an internal struggle. Most I have talked to here say that St. Mary's owns a good chunk of the law base in San Antonio. And I really want to be a lawyer straight out of school without issue.

  • TexAgAaronTexAgAaron Legacy Member
    1723 karma

    I have heard the same thing as well. I don't know if you have looked at Texas Tech at all, but they also seem to have a decent reach in the state. I know they are ranked but I think they fall in the tier 3 category. However, I have seen/heard of plenty of their attorneys around the state.

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