PT22.S3.Q24 - if g is assigned to team 1

extramedium

This guy JY shifts from a correct CBT answer choice to a MBT answer choice in the question straight after. I understand why some of the elements might be fixed in certain positions for the GLQ arrangement on Team 1 in Q23, but wouldn't you have to test all of them to make sure they must be true?

Sure, for Q24, G & K are positioned in the same way as they are for the correct answer on Q23 (E: L and Q). I get that. How would you know that every other element in that setup must be true? I could understand one noticing one as you're going through the setup on Q23 but this approach doesn't seem like it would hold true in all scenarios.

I understand why the answer is right, but this approach just seems a little sketchy. I don't know how you can say something that could be true also must be true. You would have to test it to make sure unless you knew from the setup.

AllezAllez21

I see what you're getting at, but the reason you can make that leap is because it is implied in the language of the question stem. The question stem says that a particular letter must be assigned to that position when G and K are assigned to those given positions.

If it was possible for more than one letter to be assigned the rear position in team 2, then the question stem would have to be "which letter could be assigned?"

Another way to look at this issue is to compare the question stem phrase used in Q24 to an open ended MBT. If the question stem simply said, "If G 1 and K2, what must be true?" and then one of the answer choices was "P rear 2" then you probably shouldn't assume your previous board is adequate to make you certain of P rear 2 being a MBT. But again, the question stem implies that there is some letter that always must be rear 2 when G is 1 and K is 2.

Edit: If I was doing this problem and had time, I would probably double check super quickly that the game board I made for 23 did not break any game rules. That's really what you need to be certain of in this situation.

extramedium

@AllezAllez21 said:

Ok ok. The distinction between solely MBT and MBT with the extra premise of what must be in the rear of T2 makes this clearer. If P is present in the rear on the 23 setup, then it must be true that P is in rear of T2 if G and K are in 1 and 2.

But say they asked "which one of the following must be in the rear on T1?"

It seems like there aren't multiple versions of the G in T1, K and T2 board I guess is what I'm getting at. Is that right?

This is one of the stranger problems I've run into for sure.

Gonna look over this again when my brain cools off, but this sounds like a great explanation. Thanks for taking the time.

AllezAllez21

So I think you've got the language issue sorted out.

I'm only quickly glancing over this game, so I am not 100% sure on the rules and stuff, but the board for this set up, where G is T1 and K is T2, looks like this to me:

1 2
G H
Q K
L/N P

So the answer choice to "which one of the following must be in the rear on T1?" would be "either L or N."

BinghamtonDave

Edit: Team 2 is filled out completely, Team 1 is not complete, I was previously incorrect on a specific constraint on this game

Lets start with team two and go through the eliminations.
G cannot be on team 2 because G is on Team 1.
K is already on Team 2
L cannot be on team 2 due to the the constraint that if L is in, L must be on team 1
N cannot be on Team 2 due to the constraint that N and K cannot be together
That leaves us with 2 spots to fill with 3 options to fill them: H, P and Q.
P and Q are a not both relationship, which means only one can go on team 2. That means that H must be on team 2, due to a constraint H must be in the front position. The last constraint pushes Q into the middle position on team 1, leaving only P to cover the Rear spot on team 2.

Doing the same for team 1 and we have L/N in the rear position of team 1.

I hope this helps, as always, don't hesitate to reach out with any further questions.

David

extramedium

@AllezAllez21 @BinghamtonDave

Ok. Thanks again. I went through all the different possible gameboards for G1 and K2 and it turns out there are only two possible gameboards like you mentioned. It's either L or N in the rear of Team 1, but the rest of the board is fixed.

The only way I got to this was by testing each element to see if it could be out, since this possibility was not identified in 23. Is that the approach I should take rather than relying on previous gameboards?