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Related Discussions
Withdrawing From December 2017 test
Tom_Tango
Alum Member
Is anyone considering withdrawing? I've already withdrew once before and it sucks to eat the money but I'm just wondering if anyone else is going to withdraw from this Saturday's test.
I'm still 5+ points away from my goal score so I know it won't happen. I'm already registered for February's test so still contemplating what to do.
Comments
Don't. I took mine and cancelled. It allowed me to realize I need to work on timing, gave me the confidence for my next take. Also, since you can take unlimited lsats,and law schools only care about the highest score, you have no reason not to try. Stress free!
Don't eat the money, go ahead take it, and cancel if need be, but at least its good practice and don't show up again until you're scoring consistently in the PTs
The only way to know how the real thing is is to actually take it. I took the September and bombed, but I don't regret taking it. I now know that I needed to work on calming down, pacing myself, and developing strategies that would help me. Now I feel a lot more ready for Saturday's test simply because I know what to expect. I say just take it.
What schools / score range are you aiming for?
163 is my highest score with average closer to 160. BR score 170+.
Target score: 168
I am doing the same thing, taking it this Saturday and will then attempt a retake in Feb./June. My current score and target scores are the same as yours, and I also 'ate the money' twice before...so I am definitely motivated to finally take the real test.
@oberdysz
This is a fact which many test-takers seem to act on improperly in my opinion. Law school's openly admit that two candidate's with the same test score are seen differently if one has taken several times and the other got the score in the first take. 1 or 2 takes is fine but when you start getting into 4, 5, and 6 an admissions councilor is going to question whether that candidate will be able to withstand the rigors of law school and eventually the bar. Law school rankings are affected by bar passage rates so this is very relevant.
It also seems to be true that this mindset of "no downside to unlimited takes" is most often taken up by test takers who haven't reached their goal score in practice yet. In all likelihood, one will slightly under-perform on test day despite hopes that that probability doesn't apply to them. So the most likely outcome in this situation is that one under-performs their current average which is already below their goal score and are left with a test that they can't apply with and may in fact have some negative impact on their future application. Not to mention that you will have used up one of the most recent PTs for your next take.
After each test, this forum gets a fair amount of disappointing news from students who went in scoring at or above their goal score and still under-performed. Consider how their applications would look if they already had 2 takes before that most recent test when they were actually ready. Now they are faced with a 4th take.
I'm glad you identified a timing issue from your take, but why didn't that issue arise in your previous PTs? Wouldn't it have been better to see that problem area when taking old PTs (40s) than the most recent test?
Another point to consider is that when you cancel a score, you don't get to see how you did or even BR that test. Law schools still know that you took that test, you score is simply scrubbed. The only upside that remains as I see it, is the very remote chance that you somehow vastly outperform your average on test day -- a remote possibility to say the lest.
My suggestion is this: postpone the test or reduce your goal score (lesser schools, less scholarship, etc).
I ne> @jkatz1488 said:
I never said take it 4/5 times. Also, if you cancel you get the blank test which you can retake and blind review. The timing issue never came up in my PT because you can't in reality replay the real test condition stress, despite of how accurately you stimulate the testing conditions.
If you are the type of person who doesn't stress too much take it once. I really benefited from the real experience.
@oberdysz
That's not me. I took the test once already long before I was ready. It was a mistake for all the reasons I listed above. Sorry if I misunderstood your post, but when you invoked "unlimited takes" I assumed that included 4/5. The real concern is that one can easily get to 4/5 takes by taking it before they are ready even if they only intended to take it 2/3 times.
I have never felt nerves in my PTs like I did on the actual test day. But do we need to take the test just to know that? I think the better approach based on my own experience is to take the test when we're ready so that we are sharper, more knowledgable, and more prepared to handle whatever the test throws at us on test day. Most of the Sages here don't recommend taking the test until you are at least 5 points above your goal score for this exact reason. At some point, shit-or-get-off-the-pot has to come into play and I understand that. That's why I suggested that if one chooses to take before reaching t goal score, then you should change the goal score.
The point of my post was to present an alternative view to the commonly held "no downside to retakes" which I believe leads many astray.
@StephenASmith another point to consider which I forgot about was that if you don't use this December take for your application, you might as well wait until next cycle anyway since you wouldn't be able to apply until march using the February test. This is the boat I am in as I just withdrew from December.
Yup. I said we can take unlimited but not that we should ( lol isn't this a flawed reasoning you committed here ?.) otherwise I agree that you shouldn't take it more than 2-3 times. I took mine once, got the reality check, kicked my butt and studied hard, improved 10 points (PT.) this can be motivating! Now fingers crossed for tomorrow. I will apply wit my December score. Unless something horrible happens, and my score ends up being disastrous, I won't take feb test. However, I will still register for it, just in case. Take and review section a day maybe, but I know I'm ready for tomorrow.
@oberdysz
Well I'm happy we cleared that up for everyone
Good luck tomorrow!
I really have one target school in mind. They do accept the February LSAT and I'm planning to apply this cycle to that school anyway. I know it would be a major mistake to go if I do get accepted this late in the game (especially if I have to pay full price) so I am prepared to walk away even if I get accepted.
Two points.
First of all, I don't think you need to be 5 points above yout goal score to take. Some people might never get 5 points above their goal. As an extreme example, my goal was a 174. I took the first time averaging a 173 and got a 172. On my retake I was averaging a 178 and ended up with a 180. If I waited till my average was 5 points above my goal I would probably still be waiting.
Its not just absurd at high scores either. The fact is that if you test under realistic conditions(at least 5 sections, strictly adhering to the time limits using the proctor app, in an environment at least as distracting as the actual test, then your score is most likely to be within one score band of your average. Anxiety may lower it a little, better resting and focus may help you a little, but neither will do much. Then of course your score could vary up or down naturally with the test, but 68 percent of the time it should be within 3 points of your true testing ability. If you are at, above, or narrowly below your goal it is reasonable to take.
Secondly, law schools do claim that they view candidates differently if they take the test multiple times. There is limited evidence that suggests this may be true to a very small degree for Yale and Stanford. For all other schools it is not. If you go to law school numbers you can compare the results of people with the same highest lsat score who either don't have other takes or do and you will see it just does not make a difference to probability of acceptance. Law schools have an interest in sounding like they decide on what candidates they admit based on merit, but they actually decide based on impact on US News rankings. They say they look at all scores because it sounds like that is what they should do, but in reality they do everything to raise their US News rankings and since they only have to report your highest score that is all they care about when they make a decision.
Roger that, there is a lot of hesitation. Just remember the new rule the LSAC changed, however I will say do what you feel is best. I wish I could back out too, but having already made my mistakes, I realize I can now not kick myself as much. Good luck Bud!