Take the June LSAT and apply for the current cycle - Fall 2018?

LCMama2017LCMama2017 Alum Member
in General 2134 karma

Hi all - this convo came up in another post and @TheMikey kindly posted the link to an article and kindly gave me his thoughts on it. I wanted to share it with the larger group because I am still mystified by what the article said. I am also interested to know if anyone has worked with Mike Spivey and if he is the real deal. I just want to know if the info in his article is credible.

http://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/late/

I always thought that if I took the June LSAT that I automatically lost the opportunity to apply for Fall 2018 and that I had to apply in the next cycle. I didn't think that I could get into any schools since most deadlines would have passed and presumably there are no spots left to offer. Welll, here comes Mike Spivey to completely confuse my understanding. According to him, if we have a number that a school wants (I would think 170 or higher) that "you can probably apply a heck of a lot later than you know or you have been lead to believe. In admissions we see it happen exactly this way hundreds of times every year." What??!! Really??

I never even thought it was possible to apply after the June test for the same cycle (so June 2018 for Fall 2018)! So, I work my butt off, take the June LSAT, score a 170+, apply and I may still have a chance?! I feel like this is almost the best news ever but I don't want to hang my hat on it. Would love to hear everyone's thoughts, specially any former Sagers who actually did this and got in.

Thanks!

Comments

  • pioneer321pioneer321 Member
    328 karma

    Well... Spivey's team should know what they are doing, especially with regards to HLS, since they have Kate Buttenbaum (HLS's past director of admissions) working as a current employee. This article, to me, presents one of those hypothetical maybe anecdotes that won't apply to most situations. First let's note that the candidate in question probably had at the very least a 176 (probably higher) LSAT, a GPA that is considered strong even by HLS's standards (3.9+?), and an application that was prepared by a respected (and very expensive) admissions consultant team. Sorry, but most applicant's don't fit this category. Second, it's important to note that HLS doesn't give out merit based aid, so the applicant's chances at scholarships were not impacted by such a late application. For a successful case like the one given, there are also plenty with people applying in February with decent numbers getting WL'd all over the place. You should also consider that by this point schools already have many potentially qualified applicants on their wait lists, so after deciding to send in your app in June, you would have to distinguish yourself above those applicants. I'm guessing you would also have to figure out how to actually go about submitting an application, since (please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this one) applications close on LSAC after a certain point.

    Something like this might be possible if you are above both 75th's for a given school, and don't care as much about scholarships (not saying you won't get one, but much less likely), but it seems that 99.9% of applicants will be looking at more and better options by waiting till the start of the following cycle.

    These are just my thoughts though, and I'm interested in what others will have to say on this.

  • TheMikeyTheMikey Alum Member
    edited January 2018 4196 karma

    Just to comment on Mike Spivey's credibility, I will say that I personally (and tons of people on TLS) think his work is impressive and he is very much a credible individual, along with the whole Spivey consulting team. Also, I haven't, but I know 2 people who have worked with his team and both thought it was great.

  • tringo335tringo335 Alum Member
    3679 karma

    Hmm very interesting! I’ve never heard of this either. But would love to hear any anecdotes of this happening.

  • kimpg_66kimpg_66 Alum Member
    1617 karma

    To add credibility to his post, law schools typically don't release their medians until 1L orientation (or at the very latest, December). This is because students are dropping and accepting offers from places they were on the waitlist. Up until August, the class is changing. This would suggest that something is changing for at least one applicant who sits on the waitlist; even if just two people get off the waitlist at HLS, that opens up a spot at, say, NYU and Chicago, etc etc.

  • tringo335tringo335 Alum Member
    3679 karma

    Wow. Just read the piece and kind of blown away lol. I had no idea schools offered this option to overqualified applicants. Good to know!

  • LCMama2017LCMama2017 Alum Member
    2134 karma

    @pioneer321 said:
    These are just my thoughts though, and I'm interested in what others will have to say on this.

    @pioneer321 - great points. I think I'm screwed anyway, because even if I get a top LSAT score in June, my GPA is not to be desired. Certainly, I wouldn't be applying to HLS - the closest would be PennLaw but the others are top 50-ish. I was just hoping there was a silver lining for me to go to school this fall instead of waiting until next year. I, personally, think I am a strong applicant (despine my damn GPA) but who doesn't! ha! There is just no way I will be ready for the Feb LSAT. And thanks for your thoughts on the Spivey team, good to know that they are credible.

    @TheMikey - thanks for your thoughts! I wish I had the money to hire them! Ha!

    @kimmy_m66 - I suppose I can always beg these schools to see my application!

    @tringo335 - right!! I didn't even think it was a possibility! Sigh - if only I hadn't screwed up my freshman year I may have a decent GPA. Well, live and learn.

    Thanks everyone!

  • Seeking PerfectionSeeking Perfection Alum Member
    4423 karma

    I think it is worth considering who Spivey's clients are when evalauating this advice (By the way while I have voiced my opposition to consulting, I'm putting aside my moral objections to it for this post).

    Spivey is among the best, but also the most expensive consultation experts available. This means that the people he works with are probably not usually at a shortcoming with regards to money. Therefore it is likely that his focus is more on getting them in to a good school rather than maximizing their scholarships.

    If you share these goals, it might make sense to go to a school you get into with a June test result especially if that school is Harvard.

    However, most schools will have depleted their merit scholarship funds significantly by then and you will not get into as many schools with as good of offers as if you applied earlier. This means you will be less able to negotiate a good scholarship. That doesn't matter at all at Harvard which doesn't offer merit scholarships, but at most schools for most of us it is a massive consideration which precludes applying with a June score for the fall immediately following the June test.
    Spivey might tell you that if you asked him how to maximize your odds of obtaining a good scholarship.

  • stepharizonastepharizona Alum Member
    edited January 2018 3197 karma

    Yes it happens all the time even at T14 schools.

    I personally know a UChicago Full ride June FIRST time applicant applying AFTER score release from last cycle. (175 LSAT/4.0).

    UChicago moved to accepting June LSATs in 2016 and other top schools also quietly followed...

    The scholarships being gone is a myth for the most part (except for maybe HYS).

    Here is why... better schools are taking people off the waitlist into August. Heck even AFTER school started last year!!!

    The people who were at a lower ranked school now move on to the better school and they typically leave behind scholarships. For this reason, money becomes available.This happens all cycle long. Also money rarely "runs out" If they want you, they make it happen. Far too often people are "greatful to just be off the WL and accepted" they don't even attempt to negotiate. Or if they get )$ they're over the moon!!

    For example, my Vanderbilt interviewer who was a 1L in 2016 and received a 1/2 tuition scholarship off the waitlist the FRIDAY before school started, IF he could commit it was let us know by 4pm offer... they called him at 12pm. Yes this was AFTER orientation wa over!

    He had a full offer from ASU where he was suppose to start... so that opened up money for someone else... sure maybe the ASU person didn't get a full ride, but I bet they got something... at the very least ASU was sitting on $75k It's just a trickle down effect... FYI he shared that he had the lowest numbers "that he knew of" for 1/2 tuition at Vanderbilt.

    Person A gets in at UChicago off WL, that opens a full tuition spot at NYU, that now triggers someone at Northwestern, which in turn triggers a WL at Vanderbilt and so on and so on.

    In fact if you look sometimes you will see people get a littler MORE $$ at the end because schools want to fill the seat.It's like musical chairs... It's better to have a discounted seat than an empty one and that why money is almost always left over...

    I've been active for Fall15- to Fall 18 cycles (ugh yeah I just about died typing that) and have known countless people who've used June to, at first, get off waitlist (15) and now to get in to schools as a first time take (16 and beyond). That's why I want to lol at "Feb too late"... posts...

    Here's the one fact I know... 100%... Only Sept/Dec takes are too late for Fall admitance of the same year...

    Sure a few schools say they WONT consider June, even for waitlist BUT even schools like USC that say they won't hold for a June LSAT make exceptions.

    At the end of the day it all depends on your numbers, their needs and how you compare to their WL.

    I was a June LSAT last year and withdrew apps because of my moms death (withdrew them in April/May) but they were all Feb/March apps with holds. After my June LSAT, I was contacted by high teen and 20'schools with waivers and "potential scholarships up to and including full rides because of my new LSAT score. Even schools I'd withdrawn from reached out too.

    Im in with scholarship to many of those same schools this year with my June LSAT score and more than one has joked that I "just should have deferred last year" as I would have had the same result. I didn't because to carry over $$ would have required binding and I checked that before I withdrew my apps.

    So June is not too late... BUT do you want to be that person moving into a hotel the weekend before school starts because you just got in? That's the reality for LOTS of people but more so if you use the June LSAT.

    Plus it's hard to say what your $$ will look like. Its going to be there... but will schools be willing to share it with you, or will they just roll it over to next year? If you fill a need that they have, it'll be there.

  • _oshun1__oshun1_ Alum Member
    3652 karma

    @stepharizona what was your GPA/LSAT? your story is motivating me to aim for the June test instead of September but my GPA is only 3.82

  • stepharizonastepharizona Alum Member
    3197 karma

    Your GPA is huge! Why are you nervous? That's a 75% GPA at most schools! And just below the medians of only 6 schools!!! I mean if you're dead set on HYS you're going to want an equally impressive LSAT but man that's a great GPA!

    My GPA is WAY lower I'm a 25/75 splitter at the T-16 and up. Hopefully I finally break the 170s and then things will get interesting...

  • _oshun1__oshun1_ Alum Member
    3652 karma

    @stepharizona thank you for sharing that info. I only applied to one t12 as my last LSAT score sucked. Maybe if I'm waitlisted I'll take the June LSAT to try to get off WL.

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