Partial Refund due to no more access

barrettmelissa82

Now that we don't have any access to the lsat questions, for those of us who prepaid for a year's membership, will we be getting a partial refund due to this inconvenience? I extended my purchase based on this fact as we had no information about the pdf being taken down until April and I repurchased on March 15th not knowing that this would happen.

ddakjiking

But didn't you download all the pdf's before the 21st?

barrettmelissa82

no I was unable to download before the 21st, either way, this is an inconvenience that I would have purchased another lsat study program if I was given this information before I extended for a year

fifthending

As long as you downloaded them, nothing else should have really changed, videos, etc. are all still here

barrettmelissa82

I am in the middle of finals and I did not have a chance to download before the deadline

jdawg113

For one all other programs from other companies would be in the same situation in losing PDF downloads. Theres also the fact that March 15th is over a month before said PDFs were removed so even with Finals it does not take too much time to download the PTs at least, and only a little extra for the sets especially if you spread it out like 10 min of downloading a day from the announcement. I am clearly not a 7sage rep so only my opinion but I don't think they'll be giving refunds since the announcement was out there with ample time

nicole.hopkins

Yeah @jdawg113 — J.Y.'s **official** post about this was a full 18 days ago (http://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/2602/no-more-pdf-downloads-starting-now-april-21st) and we knew about this eventuality over a month ago. So ... well ... where I went to undergrad, we had an unusually long Reading/Finals period, and it wasn't even a month ... I feel like this is an LR question. The argument for a refund isn't holding water :-/

I'm sorry you feel this way @barrettmelissa82 . The value of the course is in the course itself—tests are relatively inexpensive to obtain and still available from Cambridge (as PDFs for the time being), Amazon (hard-copy, get some nice erasers like I did!), etc.

emli1000

We were told to download everything before the 21st since it would all be gone. Every other lsat prep course would be going through the same situation. Of course it's an inconvenience but we were suppose to download everything. Now you can purchase the books on Amazon or maybe Cambridge packets.. You might want to check if those are still for sale.

Seamus ODriscoll

I do not know why I felt I had to post here. I read this thread the other day and it has bothered me ever since. I realize it's a year old. But Barretmelissa82 is correct (at the time. If you renewed, extended or joined after then maybe your answers although a bit rude, would be defendable.

Furthermore, it's disappointing 7Sage let you do their bidding. My guess is because they know she was correct and hoped it would pass with as little damage to their bottom line as possible.

7Sage offered the preptests and questions when she, I and many others accepted the offer. Deal done. It is not remotely relevant that 1) you could download or 2) nobody can offer these in PDFs anymore or 3) the value is in the lessons. I do not remember seeing a disclaimer saying you are entitled to these 'as long as the LSAC licenses them. Or you are getting merely the lessons, and anything else is a bonus while it lasts. Now, I am not a lawyer nor am a Law Student. But this is an obvious breach of contract. Black. Letter. Law. Sure, it is 7sages right to breach a contract. In this case, it was in their best interest. However, that does not make a bit of difference. That is not relevant to Melissa and the others who were entitled to some sort of remedy besides a smug 'sorry, you should have downloaded them'. Or I don't agree 'you are an idiot....for even suggesting such a thing' paraphrased that last one. But that was the message received.

'But they had to change' and I say to that So What?

Perhaps they hoped people would just accept your (wrong) statements and not address the issue, publicly anyway. I am sure privately some people, who stood up for themselves did get compensation out of view of the general forums.

At this point in time sure I am sure they could you accepted the modification....now. But at the time the question was asked, answered. And by members of the 7sage community who at least appear to be agents of 7sage.

That is all. Rubbed me the wrong way. Still does actually. I am sure most people bought one of those response or a variation. But they shouldn't have had to. I hope she was compensated. Some replies were more condescending then others but none of them were valid.

Cant Get Right

I can see how this would definitely have been an incredibly sensitive topic at the time @"Seamus O'Driscoll" . I totally sympathize with any user who paid before PDFs came down and was unable, for whatever reason, to download them before they were removed. I'd have felt the same way as barrettmelissa, what a shitty situation.

I can't say for sure about what the terms of service were at the time, but those typically include some sort of clause which would give the site the right to change the site in order to be in compliance with any legal issue. There is always a catch all clause. I have no clue what 7Sage's finances look like but I can guarantee refunding on that scale would have closed the doors on this place. So I think 7Sage's responsibility was to saturate the site with notices and give people as much time as they could. And it looks like they did that. They even put all the PDFs on sale to further extend access, so if this were some kind of money grab, they could probably have made bank by foregoing the sale price. And if the PDFs had to be purchased separately, that wouldn't have been included in the course price anyway. I'm sure they'd have loved to refund users who felt it wasn't fair, in my experience they have actually been very generous. I just don't see how they could have and I don't know what more they could have done.

So, this user missed it, and that really sucks. And there's really no nice way to tell someone in a shitty position that you can't help them. I've had to fire people before when I was totally sympathetic to their situation, and believe me there's just not a good way to do it. Responding to this kind of thing is really difficult. I think internet threads are further complicated because tone is so hard to read. When this thread popped up I found it really interesting and read it all the way through and didn't read anything as condescending. After your comment I went back and I could totally see how you had read it though. Especially if you think she was entitled to a refund, which I still think is a reasonable position, I can see why it came across that way. I think ultimately though, the answer was simply, "no." And there's just no way to elaborate on that well.

__Juan__

@"Cant Get Right" said:
o I think 7Sage's responsibility was to saturate the site with notices and give people as much time as they could.

Yea, but they didn't even email people . I still get random larry law emails but never got an email about the pdf's leaving. If you weren't going on the site, you were not aware.

It also happened during finals, a time many people pause their LSAT studying.

I got my pdf's in time but would have been bummed if I didn't because I paid for the course because of the PDF's. I would not have been able to afford the program + pdf's.

Cant Get Right

@"juan_OVO" said:
I got my pdf's in time but would have been bummed if I didn't

Totally man.

BruiserWoods

@"Seamus O'Driscoll" said:
with as little damage to their bottom line as possible

errr from what I understand, one of @"J.Y. Ping" 's biggest motivations in starting this curriculum and site were to provide quality, affordable LSAT prep to people who don't have the means to pay for the expensive private tutors. He's said before that he wishes he could offer the entire course for free, but, due to LSAC licensing regulations, they have to charge us SOMETHING for access to real LSAT questions.

I get it; we're all in the same boat. We all need access to PTs and material and it's a financial strain to get it. But I just REALLY don't think JY and the rest of the folks behind 7sage are sitting around trying to figure out how to nickel and dime us out of a few extra dollars. They could EASILY charge double or more for these courses and people would pay.

Seamus ODriscoll

I still believe:
1 original poster would have won a case had she sought a remedy outside of the Court of Public Opinion, 7Sage Disciple Division;

2 7Sage could have and should have addressed this issue better. posting a warning was not nearly enough to absolve them here.


@Bruiserwoods i'll repeat this for you because it seems to me you do not "get it" Possibly because you may not have been a member at the time relevant to this discussion or just didn't read the posts clearly. When Original Thread started in April 2015, the materials were INCLUDED. LSAC got their money, 7sage theirs.

things completely irrelevant to the issue:

7Sage is wonderful, great, etc. only doing this for the good of the general public (I believe the first 2...still not relevant)

7Sage posted a warning

Nobody Can use pdfs (ANYMORE)

the materials can be purchased elsewhere (at the time this was relevant because she could have purchased them and sought compensation, standard Contract remedy)

whether or not JY Ping is a Saint or not.

7Sage could charge more.

BruiserWoods

Don't get loud with me. In the time it took you to work up all that sass and stretch your fingers out to put them quotes all over the place, you could have seen that I've been a member since long before April 2015. I don't understand why you acting like you're a logician-authority on "relevance" and throw in personal attacks about how I can't read and don't "get" things.
I'm not about to sit here and be spoken to like an imbecile. Check your tone. Don't address me again.

@"Seamus ODriscoll" said:
i'll repeat this for you because it seems to me you do not "get it"

@"Dillon A. Wright" i'm tagging you before this gets out of hand.

inactive

@"Seamus ODriscoll", anyone who had issues at the time of this happening got compensated in some way after emailing me with their concerns. We had warnings up on the *entire* site for over a month and I emailed all of the users (that I could find) who were inactive for that time period so they had a warning that things were going away. Of course I might've missed some, but anyone who emailed me was taken care of.

No 7Sage reps posted in this thread. Nicole was not a rep at the time of posting, nor were most of the Mentors (but Mentors are also not 7Sage reps).

I'm closing this thread. Please read the rules and refrain from talking down to others.
https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/15/forum-rules

If you have concerns please PM/email me.