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onomatopoeia

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FindingSage

I am a fellow splitter, though with not as extreme of a split. The first thing I would say is that keep in mind that law school admissions tools like predictors don't work well with splitters as we really are wild cards. Last cycle I got into schools where I had less than a 30% chance with scholarship, and waitlisted at a school where I had literally a 1% chance. On the flip side, schools where I was supposed to have a 50- 70% chance either rejected or waitlisted me. There are schools which are more splitter friendly than others - definitely try to get an idea of which schools are more GPA focused or looking for applicants which are more "even" in terms of GPA and LSAT split.
Apply early and apply broadly- which is what I will be doing this year. But also be realistic. While you can certainly blanket the top 14 and beyond keep in mind that the top 3 maybe even top 6 are still highly unlikely to admit you even though your LSAT is very high. The good news is that with your LSAT being as high as it is you should definitely qualify for some merit based fee waivers- use those to apply early. In my opinion, if you get enough waivers you should be applying to at least 15 schools ( and make sure that at least some of these are more like top 20/30's type of schools) so that you have some options.

Timmy Is an Avg Kid that No One Understands

Hey what is myLSN? I looked at the website and do not know how to make sense of the graphs.

onomatopoeia

@FindingSage Thank you! That sounds like a really crazy cycle, but it's helpful to know that's just the reality of it. And I didn't realize splitters should have 15 or so schools, so thanks for that as well. Are the merit based waivers something the schools reach out to you about, or is it something that happens during/post application process?

onomatopoeia

@"Timmy Is an Avg Kid that No One Understands" said:
Hey what is myLSN? I looked at the website and do not know how to make sense of the graphs.

Anyone step in and correct me if I'm wrong, but it's a compilation and way to organize all of the profiles and stats from LawSchoolNumbers.com. Not every applicant in an admissions cycle makes a profile, not even close, so the results on there can be skewed but it can be helpful. I can't help you too much with the graphs cause I haven't really messed with those, but if you do the admissions search (under pre-law) you can enter in your LSAT score/an LSAT range and your GPA/a GPA range along with other factors like ED, URM, when did they apply, etc. Then it spits out the number of people within that range that were accepted, waitlisted, and rejected, along with scholarship info if you click on the arrows on the right side. Again, this is all sourced from registered users on LawSchoolNumbers, it's not a complete picture.

sarakimmel

In case you haven't checked out this blog, it might help guide your apps:

https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/which-law-schools-are-splitter-friendly/

I am also a splitter, so have been looking into this a fair bit. Do you have any other criteria for schools: location, area of law, size, etc? I have narrowed my list to schools with a lower 25th GPA, but my LSAT is no where near a 177 (congrats, btw!). Happy to offer suggestions from list if you have further criteria.

onomatopoeia

@sarakimmel Thank you!! And thanks for the link. I'd heard of some schools being more/less splitter friendly than others, but I hadn't seen this yet -- it's great.

Location is the biggest one for me (should've put that in the inital post, my bad): for my SO's job I'll need to stay in either California, preferably in LA or close to, or New York. Size isn't really important to me, and I'm interested in probably too many areas of law, lol. Public interest, critical race theory, gender/sexuality, constitutional are all up at the top, with trial advocacy and criminal justice somewhere in the mix as well. Right now UCLA is my top choice because they have classes for literally every area of law I'm interested in, their location, the price tag isn't as scary as NY schools, and they're highly ranked. But after that... shrug

Austin.hutchinson1

Honestly, no one really knows what to expect. In an ordinary year, I think a bright, ambitious student with an amazing lsat score and a 3.15 gpa gets in to UCLA. Maybe not NYU which honestly sounds like your best fit, but it is ridiculously expensive to move to new york to attend nyu law anyway. Like $300,000 all told, and I'll tell you since I live in Manhattan, it's only getting more expensive to live here. By Fall 2022, it will be as prohibitive as before the pandemic and housing will most likely be more expensive.

With that said, I have a lot of overlap with significant interest in critical theory, PI, constitutional law and probably a lot of other leftist intellectual this-and-that. And NYC is the only city in America with such deep ties to left/radical movements, an enormous range of affinity groups and, in good times, endless access to intellectual culture. I dont really know LA at all, do they even believe in housing policy? Is it a felony to be homeless?

NYC is the only real progressive city in America, but you don't have make it the home base for law school necessarily. And this is the last I'll say, which I only say bc my friend who just finished at fordham has made sure I don't have any illusions about law school:

Unless you go to Yale, Harvard, NYU, Columbia, etc and enjoy legal writing/law review/journal/research, there is no intellectual milieu in law school like you may imagine. I did, at least. Not that you can't concentrate on gender/sexuality or thereabouts, but you're not gonna be in a grad seminar talking about Judith Butler and Michel Foucault and structures of power and domination in a highly normative society. Unless it's Yale or similar, law school isn't exactly an intellectual salon of ideas; the majority of your peers are the same people you didn't like in undergrad classes and even if you like them now, everyone is focused on finishing law school so they can go get paid and start practicing in their field. In other words, everyone's there to get a JD and decent job prospects and 90% are solely in it for the money.

I say all that just so you know! only the very elite law schools really foster that culture, and being a professor and doing legal theory writing is like a unicorn job only given to yale grads.

It took me a while to accept, but law school is nothing like a liberal arts grad program/dept. Most of your peers will not have any idea what critical race theory is, nor care, and that's just the truth. There will be all sorts of PI-adjacent opportunities to meet like minded people, but everyday life as a law student is apparently pretty standard stuff. I would say, and this is my plan, to focus on constitutional law, legal writing/law review and whatever your main segment of law ends up being. For me, I am doing housing and hopefully one day in a position to be writing progressive policy at a federal and/or city level. Not likely, but I would nail the fundamentals of 1L and then in 2L and 3L start seeking out your affinity groups and shit. But just be prepared for the majority of your peers to reject any notion of the personal being political and the professional being political and are just in it for the sweet six figure salary, not fighting injustice or reducing any of the widespread suffering in every city in this country.

I've never actually been to law school yet, but i'm confident my friend's takeaway is pretty accurate. If anyone wants to call me out for being full of shit, I know, I'm sorry.

Law School is mostly attended by future or current assholes, just like civilian life.

Austin.hutchinson1

My list:

Fordham
Columbia
Northeastern
BU
Georgetown
CUNY

90% chance I go to Fordham btw.

onomatopoeia

@"Austin.hutchinson1" I feel you. NYU is on my list now (since making this original post, I’ve decided to just go for it and hope for merit-based waivers, so now I have 18 schools on my list), but the price tag is a huge discouragement. I may apply for an AnBryce scholarship as a first generation college student, but that’s kinda my only shot in being able to afford NYU.

UCLA is the only school I’ve found that has an explicit specialization for critical race theory, so that’s another reason it’s at the top. I already live in LA though, and I’m not opposed to moving but I’d be lying if I said convenience wasn’t a factor, so there’s that. It’s not a felony to be homeless here, but we did just pass a measure that’s really abhorrent -- written to be helpful and now being loosely interpreted to criminalize homeless people, basically. It’s being appealed though, so. crosses fingers And on the flip side, we elected a new DA last year, and he’s already done some really good things in the crim justice realm: eliminated cash bail, trying to get rid of CA’s 3 strike system, banned sentence enhancements, kids can’t be tried as adults, banned the death penalty, trying to get prior death sentences reconsidered, etc. Anyway, I agree that NYC is a hub of progressivism, and a total icon of leadership in forward thinking and positive change, and I disagree that it’s “the only real progressive city in America.” And if it were, honestly I think that probably means that I’m more needed elsewhere.

I do appreciate the heads up, but yeah, that’s about in line with what I’m expecting. I have no illusions about the type of people I’ll be in class with, and it doesn’t deter me any. Not that you were trying to deter me, or your friend was trying to deter you. I mean I’m gonna be really psyched to meet people like you when I get the chance, but really that has nothing to do with my pursuit of law school. I’m a really cynical person 80% of the time, but I know myself well enough to know that if I don’t meet a single person in law school that isn’t in it just for the six figure salary, then that’s a type of fuel for me. Anyway, all that to say that I really do appreciate what could’ve been an epiphany for some on this journey, but for me, it’s all good and I’m gonna do me.

You’ve got a good list! We’ve got Fordham and Columbia in common. No NYU or Cardozo?

Austin.hutchinson1

Hey! Just reread my post and sorry for over explaining stuff you already know; it sounds like you've got a really solid read on things, but I wanna say that my post was a little too cynical; there are tons and tons of great PI lawyers in NYC and it isn't some total cesspool haha. I think I'm leaning toward CUNY bc of cost and everyone there is PI, but I would get in-state tuition which is only $15k at full price. That, for example, would be a much diff scene. But it really isn't a school people move cross-country to attend.

As for NYU, it just isn't happening. I have a 2.82 LSAC GPA and I'm 34, I promise you no one like me is gonna get in to NYU. It is 1000% my dream school and I would borrow whatever it took to go, but they ain't letting me in. My instincts honestly tell me Columbia would be more likely than NYU, but even then it's a hail Mary.

Cardozo, however, I will probably add. And subtract Georgetown lol. Cardozo is totally decent and they often award a lot of aid, have strong faculty and definitely place graduates all over the city. It's also below 14th street which is great. I don't like the part of Queens where CUNY is located, but as we can both prob agree, prob shouldn't be swayed by silly things like that. And queens is actually semi affordable in terms of COL anyway.

onomatopoeia

@"Austin.hutchinson1" No, you're totally good. I get the frustration and concern and wanting to save people from the same thing. But speaking as one of the more pessimistic people I know, try to keep your head up about your classmates -- you'll find the ones that are worth your time! Especially at a place like CUNY, I thought they sounded dope. I don't know the boroughs well, but yeah, I'd def say don't nix it based on where in Queens it is.

I think that's a good move, adding Cardozo and subtracting Georgetown. Cardozo may not be T-whatever, but from what I've heard they have a really solid reputation and network in NY if that's where you want to practice. And yeah, they're 4000x more generous than Georgetown, lol.