A question for those who consistently PT at 165+

GordonBombay

How often do you find yourself finishing sections early? If so what sections particularly, & how much extra time do you typically have to go back and double check questions that you weren't 100% on?

I've hit a plateau at the 159 - 162 timed range, with a BR between 167-170.I'm typically finishing RC with literally no time to spare and average around minus 6-9. LR I can usually get through every question in time, with the exception being skipping and guessing on a difficult parallel reasoning question. LR average is between minus 5-8 per section with the a few minus 3's. LG is undoubtedly my worst section. I usually finish the first three games (or easiest three) relatively comfortably, but always run out of time and end up guessing on the last game. If I'm lucky I'll have time to read through the rules of the fourth game and get the easy acceptable situation type question. My LG average usually falls between minus 7-9, but I've had a couple as bad as minus 11-12. I don't typically have trouble picking the right game board or setting them up correctly, however it still just flat out takes me too long to make the necessary inferences. I typically resort to not making multiple set ups before attacking questions. Most of the time I write the rules, then move straight to the questions and brute force the correct answer after POE for obvious wrong answers. This is partly because I'm terrible at deciding when it's going to be extremely helpful to make multiple set ups before hand, and partly because I'm not confident enough to do it thoroughly in a reasonable amount of time.

I truly feel like if I could just get faster (especially in LG but also LR) I could get over the hump, but obviously that's way easier said than done. I'd love to be consistently hitting 165 before October. At this point I have completed the entire 7sage core curriculum, about 3/4 the LG bundle, and taken PT's 36 - 38, and 51 - 60. I'm trying fine tune my approach for the final 7 weeks before October. Any guidance would be much appreciated.

eugene.chong

I usually finish LR and RC with 5-7 minutes to spare. This gives me time to really dive into at least two circled questions, which is very helpful.

I usually finish LG with around 3 minutes, which I usually end up spending on any rule substitution question. I'm still learning to diagram well; I brute force more questions than I would like.

Speed is helpful. There are undoubtedly going to be questions that will benefit from deeper review, and you need time for that. What do you find to be your biggest time sink?

GordonBombay

@eugene.chong For the test as a whole it's the difficult "curve breaker" type questions. In LR it's parallel reasoning q's, sufficient assumption q's, and in general the difficult flaw, MOR, or strengthening/weakening questions. LG and RC it's especially those types of passages /games that have tougher questions. With LG there's no game board set up that I'm particularly slow at when it comes to the more common sequencing, DL sequencing, grouping, and In/Out games. Like I said its mainly just those harder games, although I have noticed that games that are really heavy on conditional logic in the rules tend to slow me down also.

c.janson35

LG I sometimes finish 10-15 minutes early, more often than not 5ish minutes early.

RC I'm either on time or a couple minutes early--enough to go back and review 1 or 2 questions buts that's it.

LR I'm consistently 3-5 minutes early, although the are occasionally those sections where I feel like I'm rushing at the end.

As I've said before, though, timing is directly related to how well you know the material. There are no shortcuts for improving speed.

eugene.chong

Gotcha. Yeah, those questions just naturally take more time. My only advice here is that the speed for me comes more from eliminating wrong answers quickly than finding the right one quickly (although the right answer does sort of pop out on some). Since I don't have very concrete advice for improving speed on LR and LG, I'll leave that to others.

My advice on the RC is that you always read the passages to understand the sentences and paragraphs rather than each word. It's tempting to read super slowly and try to cover every base, but you'll always fail to anticipate something, and you'll lose sight of what the passage is saying if you focus on the granular details. "What is the main point" questions should be quick, but they can end up taking a long time if you failed to see the big picture while reading. Same thing with "what might the author agree with" questions; you could end up re-reading the whole passage answering those. Circle some key terms and underline claims, but otherwise, just focus on absorbing the tone and point of the passage. I think the answers will come more easily that way.

Student76

Take more! once you hit 20 you will notice how much faster you are getting. RC was also my hardest and I was able to start anticipating the questions that would be asked which dramatically improved my time. I know that 10 or 12 seems like a lot of tests, and it is, but it gets much better. Once you hit 165 you wont be back in the 150's anymore. Do the 10 test 60's book and by the end I'm sure you will be there. Probably higher than 165 and you still have a lot of time. Don't get discouraged. After 15 pts and an real test155 in Feb, I thought my first 167 was wrong. It wasn't, I never got another 15_ again. and I scored a real 168 in June. The only difference was the amount of pts before feb (12) to june (25+).

c.janson35

Yup, keep cranking away at the PTs. Probably save the newest Ten Actuals for a little while and really dive into the book of 40s or 50s. Finish that book with really solid BRs and then jump into the 60s! Or mix them around, it doesn't matter. What matters most is that you are practicing under timed conditions.

nicole.hopkins

@GordonBombay said:
How often do you find yourself finishing sections early?

Sometimes. I usually have 3-5 minutes left after LR, ~3 minutes left after RC, and usually ~3 minutes after LG. I've done LG in 25 minutes on a retake and I think the record for the other sections is 28.

@GordonBombay said:
I'm trying fine tune my approach for the final 7 weeks before October.

I'll be completely honest. I was at a 163-165 plateau in March. I broke out of it in April-ish and then plateaued at 169. That lasted until like ... June. And now I'm dealing with some burnout etc. (except for a few outliers I think current average is probably like 171). I think what you need is more time and more practice. I think October is probably a stretch but it could happen (you might skirt out of there with a 165).

If I were you at this point, I'd reschedule for December and pick up The Trainer. Do one of the shorter schedules Mike has on his website. Go hard/go home. Then pick up PT'ing again once you've done a schedule. Given your BR scores, I think there's more than an issue of practice going on.

gs556

I usually finished LR with 5-8 minutes early.
RC was consistently 5 minutes early.
LG was 3-5 minutes early.

The trick is to not get stuck on trap answers. POE, guess, then move on. You should have time to come back to it (the five minutes or so I listed above). Usually seeing a question a second time helped me understand it better. That held true for PTs and on test day.

Alejandro

@gs556 about how many questions did you guess per section?

nicole.hopkins

@gs556 said:
POE, guess, then move on. You should have time to come back to it (the five minutes or so I listed above). Usually seeing a question a second time helped me understand it better.

This is GREAT advice!!

NYC12345

@gs556
"Usually seeing a question a second time helps me better understand it."
^Advice of the year^
This holds true especially for flaw questions. Take a step back, relax, breathe, then read the stimulus again.

nicole.hopkins

@alexandergreene93 said:
^Advice of the year^

Alex's new tattoo

nicole.hopkins

@alexandergreene93 is getting this tat on his back and "Usually seeing a question a second time helps me better understand it." on his heart.

NYC12345

How do you upload pictures, @nicole.hopkins ?

nicole.hopkins

@alexandergreene93 said:
How do you upload pictures, @nicole.hopkins ?

I'm not sure it would be wise to give you that power!!!

Seriously though—learn here: http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_images.asp

gs556

@alejoroarios

I'd guess about 3-5 a section depending on difficulty.

jyang72

@gs556 , that is really fast. How many questions do you usually guess? I know it is easy to go back to LR if you have enough time. However, do you find it easy going back to RC since you might have to reread the passage for the unanswered questions?

gs556

RC I did a bit differently. I would skip within a section and then comeback if I was in a reasonable time frame.

Guessing was 5 or less a section. Usually in questions where I had narrowed it down to two choices.

jyang72

@gs556 , you are right that there is no point of getting stuck by trap answer choices.

gs556

The key is that you don't want the harder questions to break your rhythm. That Rythm will get you through the test. Once it breaks, panic ensues.

jyang72

@gs556 , thanks for pointing this out to me. It happens to me a lot in PTs, especially RC.