169; worth retaking?

joecarterruskey

Context - I spent a year studying for the LSAT; never made it past the 167-171 range on a fresh test, but got as high as a 178 on a retake. I took the June LSAT for my first official take, and scored a 169. I'd obviously love to score a 180 and go to Harvard, but if that's not feasible then my next ideal place to go would either be Penn or Duke. My GPA is a 3.66.

Test Breakdown:
LR: 23/25, 23/26 (left one blank!!! Had no idea I did this); this is a pretty typical breakdown for me though
AR: 21/23; I usually go -0
RC: 23/27; this is the crazy one, as I usually went 19 or 20 out of 27. Because of this score, I feel like I should be happy with I got.

With that said, what if I had gotten those two additional games questions correct, and had answered the forgotten LR question? Maybe the RC was a fluke on this occasion, but an additional 2 1/2 months could make that score more consistent.....

However, I have used all of the testing materials, and I did score smack dab in my average. Is chugging out retakes for the next few months worth it for a couple of additional points? I don't know, which is why I ask for the wisdom of 7sage.

joecarterruskey

P.S. I was also amped and stressed out of my mind for the test....now that I know what to expect, and already have a decent score under my belt, I wonder if I would do better?

Pacifico

No harm in a retake. Prep for September and give it a shot.

joecarterruskey

@Pacifico said:
No harm in a retake. Prep for September and give it a shot.

Do you think it will matter if I do certain tests for a third time? It's been 3 1/2 weeks since I've studied, so it's a decent break in time

Pacifico

Not a problem... Retakes are highly informative and beneficial to the process. Just don't put much stock or concern into the scores and focus on the development of your understanding.

stepharizona

@joecarterruskey said:
Do you think it will matter if I do certain tests for a third time? It's been 3 1/2 weeks since I've studied, so it's a decent break in time

@"J.Y. Ping" gave me some good advice on these and that is to change the amount of time you give yourself to do them. Use the 7Sage app and bump up the time from 35 a section, to 30 a section. This helps to compensate for the "Ive seen this before" factor.

BruiserWoods

I'm literally same. 169.

Wanna know something worse?

I ERASED AC 6 ON SECTION 2 AND JUST NEVER BOTHERED TO FILL IN ANOTHER ANSWER AND I HAD THE RIGHT ANSWER.

-2 LG
-2 LR1 (one of which i had the right answer and erased it and so it was just left blank)
-6 RC (yikes)
-0 LR2

I'm so upset and just wanna throw my computer out the window.

BruiserWoods

we also have the exact same GPA so like? #soulmates?

jdawg113

@joecarterruskey said:
my next ideal place to go would either be Penn or Duke

if this is the case you aren't too far off so I would entertain a retake, but I wouldn't sign up for Sept... I would prob give yourself another week or so b4 you dive back in and see how it goes. If you see some serious improvement and can still register than go for it, otherwise keep going and shoot for Dec(or plan for Dec and spread it out a lot more and really focus on trouble areas) its hard when you don't have much materials left that hasn't been touched multiple times. You already got a year b4 school so might as well not rush into another take (I'd say shoot for Sept def if you scored well below avg but not the case here)

Sprinkles

@BruiserWoods congratulations on the 169!!!

stepharizona

@BruiserWoods said:
-2 LR1 (one of which i had the right answer and erased it and so it was just left blank)

I am so sorry heartbreaking... did that put you at 170? UGH!

But still 169 is amazing!!!! You should be proud!

joecarterruskey

Can I apply in September with the 169, and then submit whatever my new score is after applying?

notwilliamwallace

@joecarterruskey said:
Can I apply in September with the 169, and then submit whatever my new score is after applying?

First of all, great score. Congrats on scoring so well.

You most definitely can. Apply with what you have, but do let the schools know that you are re-writing so that they know you'll be submitting a fresh new score.

joecarterruskey

I'm honestly starting to lean towards not retaking. It'd be great to get into Penn or Duke, but I might do ED at Northwestern and get that 150k scholarship.

joecarterruskey

My reasons for not retaking - I've already done LSATs 60-77 2x; never scored above a 171 on a fresh test and was stuck in the 167-171 range for 8 months, and feel like I'd just be spinning my wheels; I honestly can't imagine putting myself through the ringer again

My reasons for retaking - I don't want to give up on my dream of going to Harvard/be a 175+ scorer; I've already put in a year, might as well get more out of a year's worth of studying than a 169

joecarterruskey

@notwilliamwallace said:
First of all, great score. Congrats on scoring so well.

You most definitely can. Apply with what you have, but do let the schools know that you are re-writing so that they know you'll be submitting a fresh new score.

Thanks for the advice; I guess I don't have to make my decision right now....maybe some sleep will be able to help me out.

joecarterruskey

If I retake and the the score is lower than a 169, will it hurt my admissions chances?

Nicole Hopkins

@joecarterruskey said:
Can I apply in September with the 169, and then submit whatever my new score is after applying?

You never get a second chance to make a first impression. It is best to apply with a higher LSAT score. September take will still allow you to apply VERY early in the cycle.

Nicole Hopkins

@joecarterruskey said:
If I retake and the the score is lower than a 169, will it hurt my admissions chances?

They will only care about the highest score unless it's Yale.

Alejandro

@BruiserWoods don't be upset! You have a great score and this is only your first take. You can do it!

Ron Swanson

@joecarterruskey First off congrats on the 169, that's an excellent score!

Second, to echo what others have said, take some time to decide what your plan from here is. I would definitely recommend not ruling out the retake entirely, but if you think you'd just spin your wheels for MAYBE a 1 point bump...definitely not worth it. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but provided you're over a school's 75th percentile LSAT I don't think they'd care about the difference between a 169 and 170.

However, if you decide on a retake, get your apps completely done so when your Sept. score comes back you can send them immediately

jyang72

169 is an amazing score. But it does not hurt to take it again. You can always apply to law school first, then give them you latest lsat score as supplement.

joecarterruskey

@"Ron Swanson" said:
@joecarterruskey First off congrats on the 169, that's an excellent score!

Second, to echo what others have said, take some time to decide what your plan from here is. I would definitely recommend not ruling out the retake entirely, but if you think you'd just spin your wheels for MAYBE a 1 point bump...definitely not worth it. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but provided you're over a school's 75th percentile LSAT I don't think they'd care about the difference between a 169 and 170.

However, if you decide on a retake, get your apps completely done so when your Sept. score comes back you can send them immediately

Thanks Ron Swanson!

I've heard an equal number of stories of people who say they change their lives by retaking and those who said they wish they hadn't put themselves through the stress of it again for a one or two point bump. What makes me hesitant to retake is that I've been in the 167-171 range for about 8 months, and I've already done many retakes so I have virtually zero fresh material left. I went through LSAT 60 this morning, and I remembered many of the problems. I'll try to find an older test from the 30s or 40s I haven't taken, take that this Saturday, and use it as a gauge for if I should continue.

joecarterruskey

@"Nicole Hopkins" said:
You never get a second chance to make a first impression. It is best to apply with a higher LSAT score. September take will still allow you to apply VERY early in the cycle.

I'm going to dig around for a fresh PT (I've already pounded the hell out of 60-78), and try to make a decision for a retake off of that score.

kazrah

The moment I saw my 168 I immediately signed up for the September retake. I was PTing at about your score (171) and of course test day conditions are a bit different and I got a bit wrecked. I was definitely disappointed, but also confident that with enough dedication and practice I can break through.

169 is absolutely a good score (96th percentile, dang) but I can see how frustrating it is for both you and especially @BrusierWoods to have been so close to the magic 170 range. That being said though, with that GPA both of you actually have a decent chance at getting into Harvard, although you'll probably need a 175+ based on the statistics we have from them. If that is your dream, I am of the opinion that you should definitely go for it. Shoot for the moon, then work backwards after you've given it your best shot.

As for PTs, did you already do the ones before 60? If so, I think the idea above about giving yourself less time for retakes a great strategy.

joecarterruskey

@kazrah said:
If that is your dream, I am of the opinion that you should definitely go for it. Shoot for the moon, then work backwards after you've given it your best shot.

As for PTs, did you already do the ones before 60? If so, I think the idea above about giving yourself less time for retakes a great strategy.

I've done 60-77 2x for tests, and one additional time for drilling; so I've seen each of those sections 3x

I've drilled the first 10 tests, and have tested 40-60 2x or have drilled sections of it. Haven't done 11-30....would those still give me an accurate gauge of where I'm at considering they are much older? I've always read those are better for drilling and learning how to do the test.

joecarterruskey

FYI I've decided I'm going full throttle; I'll regret it the rest of my life if I don't give it another shot

Inluskwetrust

I made a 168 on my last one last June and I am retaking as well. If you feel you can do better, I say take a break prep to take it again And give it one more go. Or you will probably think back(at least I know I would) and wonder why I just didn't give it another go.