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Do law schools actually favor students with multiple majors?
GrumpySnail
Alum Member
Hey guys, it's me again. I found that the 7sage discussion forum is just super helpful for a self-starter like me, so I figure I will make good use of it to shed more lights on some of my doubts about law school admission.
I have a 3.63 UGPA from a top-ranking state flagship; I am well aware that 3.63 is by no means a decent UGPA for the T14, but I also have multiple majors as an undergraduate student: I have 4 majors and 1 minor in the field of social sciences that are well-known to be the typical "prelaw" majors, such as criminology. I have taken over 240 credits in 5 years (twice as much as the graduation requirement), and I have to point out that the only reason that stopped me from being a summa cum laude student is that I suffered major depression in my freshman and sophomore year (Yes, I will explain this in my PS by intergrating it into a appealing personal story). I took about 15-18 credits per semester with a 2.6- 2.8 GPA in the first two college years, but I managed to schedule over 30 credits per semester in the last three years. Starting my junior year, none of my semester GPA ever went below 3.86 and I was on dean's list all the time. Clearly, everyone will notice such radical improvement and the upsising trend when they look at my undergraduate transcript.
After graduated from college, I attend graduate school at a top 5 college, which is a very very prestigous institution in the field of social science. However, my graduate GPA was embrassingly low at a 3.49. The college itself is well-known for it's grade deflation (well maybe you guys could tell which one it is... lol), and I have to admit that I never spend any time studying or doing my job as a graduate student. In this case, I have no one else to blame but myself...
I currrently have one SSCI paper under review (co-author), but I don't know if I should spend more time revising and improving it if I were going to law school. I don't know if this would be a valuable asset that the admissions consider. After all, studying for the LSAT is already time-consuming, and my hope is that I can crack the June test at 168+ (my initial score from the cold diag test was 162, so I think this should be a good shot for me) but in order to do that I have to study very hard. Is it really worth it to spend time on the SSCI at this point?
I am applying for the Fall 2019 cycle. For me, it's either T14 or nothing. I do have confidence that I could get into either Georgetown or Cornell (a 168 LSAT might do), but I don't know if I should give T6 a try. My plan is that if I failed to get into T6, I could transfer to T3 at the end of 1L.
Now that I have told you everything you need to know about my law school admission. Long story short, I will sum my questions here as follow:
1) Do law schools really give more consideration to students with multiple majors like me, despite that their UGPA might not be as high as the other candidates? I know that law schools are number whores - but should I give T6 a shot?
2) Does an escalating UGPA trend look more favorable to the admission? Will it, at least to an extent, compensate for a low cumulative UGPA?
3) Will my graduate GPA jeopardize my chances of being accepted? I know that the law school admission "claim" that they don't give consideration to GGPA, but I don't find this comment too plausible. I mean, a good GGPA never INCREASE your chance of being accepted, but it is likely that a bad GGPA will HURT your chance...
4) Does publication look good on my law school resume? I've asked a few people and they all told different stories. I am getting more and more confused about this. Should I spend more time to work on my paper?
5) Is it possible that I got accepted into Harvard (MyLSN tells me that I have zero chance with Yale and Stanford) with a super impressive PS and a ~173 LSAT?
6) This is a seemingly non-sense and stupid question but I guess I will still add it to my list: does being an Asian female makes me URM? My guess is no, but I just want to make sure.
Thank you all for your advices!
Comments
As far as my knowledge is concerned:
Hey! Asian people are actually considered to be over represented minority for law school. The fact that you have multiple majors isn't a huge advantage but the fact that you have publications should give you a slight boost.
Additionally, an upward GPA trend definitely looks good. For your personal statement, are you saying that your story is good or that writing itself is superb? From conversations with admissions consultants as well as admission officers in law school, they care more about the quality of your writing than the actual story itself. Your graduate school gpa isn't factored into the LSAC GPA calculations. The LSAC GPA factors all college classes you took during undergraduate and even during high school.
Hi there - obviously a lot in your comment, I'll try to touch on everything.
1) multiple majors would be considered a "soft" which might be interesting, but will not necessarily make up for GPA.
2) Yes, a rising GPA helps. You may want to consider adding an addendum to your applications explaining reasons for lower GPA in earlier years (depression) and pointing out that you raised the GPA later.
3) I think GGPA should be fine. It's again just a soft. Law schools are less concerned about it because GGPA's are not considered in their official rankings. Plus, your GPA wasn't terrible. It's still ok.
4) Yes, publications are interesting things to note on your resume, but again it is a soft factor.
5) It's always possible and never hurts to apply. Harvard is more generous with acceptances than Yale across the board.
6) No, not according to the usual definition. Because it is not just minorities, but under-represented minorities. Asians are typically over-represented in law school, meaning there are a higher percentage of Asian law students than the percentage of Asian population in the US. This doesn't hurt your app in any way, but Asian students will typically just not be considered a URM.
I've heard that students with more than one major outperform their numbers all the time in law school admissions. The five year degree thing might not look great, though.
You should definitely try for all T6, depending on your LSAT score.
I think that worrying about your LSAT score is much more important than worrying about how much your softs and your GPA will factor into your application. Although a 3.8+ GPA would be helpful in getting into a top school, it's pretty common for schools to care more about a high LSAT score applicant than a high GPA/mediocre LSAT score applicant. The multiple majors is a soft factor which law schools will likely be impressed with. The upward trend is also a positive soft which you should mention in your personal statement or in a diversity statement or some sort of addendum to emphasize that you overcame something in order to raise your GPA. The fact that you're in graduate school at all is good, they do not take your GPA into account. Publications are another good soft factor, but not at the expense of taking away LSAT study time. If you get under a 170 LSAT score, none of this will matter.
My plan is that if I failed to get into T6, I will transfer to T3 at the end of 1L. -- do not go to law school intending to transfer as this is so rare. You can go into law school expecting to be average compared to your classmates. There is no way for you to "plan" on transferring right now, you have no idea how you will do in law school.
Hi Grumpy,
As others have noted, don't enter a school with the intention of transferring. You cannot guarantee you'll be at the top of your class, which is what you'd need to go to HYS. If you don't get into a school you want to graduate from, you need to possibly alter your expectations…we can speculate as to how much your two GPAs will factor into decisions, but we can't give you a definitive answer. Also, if you're unhappy with your results, you should consider delaying a cycle to retake the LSAT, get more distance from your GPA, and build work experience. THAT could be really helpful in your case.
Maybe a double major is a potential plus if you did it but not really a minus if you didn't do it.
Don't stress so much. I had one major which it took me 5 years to get. I was accepted at a T15 school despite my GPA being below the 25th percentile.
@10000019 Good work!
@FixedDice @westcoastbestcoast @"Leah M B" @Rtwrtw8 @goingfor99th @"surfy surf" @calcal101 @lsatplaylist @10000019
Hey guys!
Sorry for the late reply; I spent the entire day celebrating the lunar new year with my friends and didn't check 7sage. Happy new year to y'all!!
I really appreciate all your comments, and I just want you to know that I have read one and every of your words carefully and thoroughly. Instead of responding individually to your posts I guess it would be easier to get back to all of you in one reply.
First and foremost, there's something that I forgot to mention in the original post (my bad!), which is actually the most important premise for me to ask the seemingly silly questions such as "should I give T6 a shot" and "will I be accepted by Harvard". Sure, I can always give ANY school a shot, why not - If I don't get accepted I have nothing to lose but the application fee. However, I am actually thinking about EDing northwestern for its $150,000 scholarship offer to all admitted ED students. I wouldn't be willing to give up any non-T6 schools for northwestern, such as Duke, UPenn, Cornell, for I really love the city of Chicago and, of course, I find the generous scholarship super appealing. Despite that my parents will totally be able to afford and are absolutely willing to pay the three-year tuition and living espenses for me, I do feel guilty taking away their money at this point in life. I mean, I am a grown-up girl and I should be able to take care of myself now, no? If I could get the scholarship then I don't have to worry about the return rate at all. I really want to ED northwestern, and to the very best of my knowledge no other schools in T14 will have such a generous offer for a student like me (with a 3.63 UGPA). I am not going to get hamilton, or ruby, and I guess the best deal that I might get from Cornell will be 105k. I am not going to UMN or WUSTL even if they offer me full-scholarship, because they are not in the T14 and have disadvantagous geographical locations.
But as I said, T6 (not even to mention Harvard) are in fact much more appealing than the NW scholarship itself. I spoke to my father earlier this week and he told me not to ED because he is more concerned about ranking, not the potential costs (I know this might sound silly to you guys but this is what Asian parents always do, duh). I wouldn't agree with him personally, but he was right about at least one thing - What if I actually EDed NW, got in, but later ended up getting accepted by a T6, or even Harvard? After all, I don't think I have zero possibility of being accepted by a T6 (again, even Harvard) if I have a 170+ LSAT score. This was what I've been thinking for the last two weeks. I know you guys might tell me not to worry about this until I get a decent LSAT score; yes, you are absolutely right, and I promise you that I am studying for the LSAT. I am pretty sure that I could get a minimum of 168 as of September - I can't do worse than that! So what would you guys recommend me to do? Should I ED NW with a 168+ LSAT? a 170+? or even a 173+?
I totally agree with @"surfy surf" that I should spend my time improving my LSAT score rather than calculating all the "soft" factors that I have no power over now. I am actually well aware about this simple fact; I guess I just asked these questions as a means to reduce my overwhelming anxiety. I can't help but thinking the possibility of being rejected by all T14 in fall... I thought ressurance from you guys will make me feel much better in my preparation process (and it actually did).
Also, I know transferring to a better law school would be super difficult for even the most intelligent students, and I am not taking this for granted. I said transferring is my "plan" but I was not trying to imply that it is something that I would definitely be able to achieve; It is just what I HOPE to achieve. It's always good for a person to aim at a seemingly unrealistic goal for motivation, isn't it? I will do everything I can to maintain a decent GPA in my 1L - even if I failed at my transfer plan, a good GPA will never hurt. However, if I failed to be accepted by any school after 1L ends, I guess I can still live with it and graduate from the current school as long as I am in a T14.
Finally, yes, I did go to UChicago. I knew you guys can figure it out lol @Rtwrtw8
How about deliberating all this after you have an actual score (or a considerable number of timed PT practices)? With all due respect, that sounds like a far more productive use of time.
You are absolutely right, and trust me, I have been studying the LSAT. But sooner or later I still have to worry about this anyway; maybe it is not yet the right time to ask these questions before I get a 170+?
It is good that you are settinng your goals high. I agree with @FixedDice .You should spend most of your time on LSAT prep. Nothing is guranteed and you will have ample time to think about law school rankings, employment prospects and all the other fun stuff once you have an official score on file
Yeah, I am just worrying too much about everything at this point. I really should stop worrying and concentrate on the most important thing (test prep) now. Before getting a 170+ none of my question would even matter
maybe I should repost this in Sep?
Yes! haha. at least in case you need to ask about your law school prospects, you have a comprehensive post and you dont need to go through the hassle of re-writing it.
lol, that sounds kinda comforting! I will start studying now. Better not waste more time if I were hoping for a 170+. LSAT is not an easy test after all.
Good luck! and congrats to having gone to Chicago. Great school!
ED is something you do if you think you will not get into any other school. You lose all of your bargaining power if you ED and will have to accept whatever merit scholarship they offer. Most people say do not ED. If you get into the school ED, you would’ve gotten in regular decision. There’s barely any benefit of doing so.
There are some schools like Northwestern wherein an ED means a full scholarship offer. That being said, ED is generally a bad idea unless you are dead set in going to that one school and have the funds to pay for full tuition. In most schools, you will not get merit
Ughhhh, my understanding is that all admitted ED students at NW just automatically get a $150,000 scholarship with no exception. It's even explicitly stated on their admission website. That means if you don't ED, (in most cases) you won't get that much funding. I think this is just yet another a way for NW to appeal to the prospective students?
It seems that NW is the only school in T14 that offers full scholarship to all admitted ED students - Am I right about this?
From my understanding yes. You could get the Hamilton in Columbia Law. According to law school numbers, people who got this scholarship or close to full scholarship had a 175 plus score.
I probably shouldn't be dreaming about Hamilton before getting a real 175 on file! hahaha! If I got a 175, I'd be EDing Harvard and forgetting everything about scholarship
I also think Hamilton doesn't take students with a 3.8- UGPA; I remember reading about the stats somewhere.
You are right that Northwestern is the only Top 14 offering a big scholarship with ED, but it isn't actually full if that makes a difference to you. It mattered to me. If they offered full tuition I would have applied ED to Northwestern, but the 50,000 a year ends up at less than full tuition. Tuition at Northwestern is currently $59,850 a year and rising every year. That is at least 30,000 in debt from tuition after 3 years. It actually seems like a kind of strange strategic decision not to peg it to full tuition to me. When they started it tuition was about $50000 a year so the gap kind of just acts as a demonstration of the rise in tuition there since they started the scholarship.
If you have the stats for the Top 6 the hope usually is that if you want it, you can wrangle a full tuition scholarship out of at least one of the lower top 14. I'm in at Columbia, but have not pulled in a full scholarship anywhere except WUSTL yet so I'm hoping that is still true.
As an aside, WUSTL is an example outside the Top 14 where ED can carry a full tuition scholarship.
This is super informative - Thanks for sharing! I'd say if my actual LSAT score went over 170, EDing NW only for the sake of scholarship might not be a great idea. I can give T6 a try, and most importantly I should be able to negotiate for funding once I get an offer from a school, right?
Depends. If you are accepted by only one school, I don't think you will have much leverage. I also seem to remember a TLS post claiming that at least one T13 school negotiates selectively, i.e. offers from schools not on its list are not taken into account.