Undergrad decision & major choices for Law School Admission

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• 7 Likes

  calcal101 Alum Member

  March 2018 edited March 2018 582 karma

  OK writing a novel here so get ready

  I would strongly encourage you to set aside law school while considering undergrad institutions. I know it seems as though your whole life is planned out right now--and it's great to have a sense of direction--but you are surely 17 or 18. Things change. I switched majors twice in college and ended up with a humanities degree and two minors (one pre-professional). I took courses that I NEVER could have imagined. College will open your mind to new ideas and schools of thought that you've never even considered before. Be open to everything, take a wide variety of courses as a freshman, and just be a sponge. Don't worry about which majors will prep you best for law school, which school is best at mock trial, etc.

  First, there is no one ideal major, and the difference between philosophy and history is not significant (electrical engineering versus English is obviously a different story, but it sounds as though you're almost certainly non-STEM). Take courses that interest you and follow your gut. Double major or pursue multiple minors if you want.

  Second, leadership opportunities will be available at all schools. Yeah, maybe being president of a major club will be more competitive at Cornell, but you'll have more opportunities to research (most likely) and take advantage of alumni networks. As I noted above, plans change--you might end up wanting to work a few years in between undergrad and law, and alumni networks can be very helpful in finding jobs. In fact, most (if not all) dual degree students have work experience, so it's kind of doubtful you'll be heading to law school straight away. And what if you decide not to go the law route…then you'll definitely want to be at a school where you have great career opportunities. For this reason alone, I'd probably avoid Furman.

  Third, GPA is the primary concern when applying to law schools (along with LSAT score). Everything beyond that is a "soft" factor. That being said, I think you're needlessly stressing yourself out about Cornell. You got in--CONGRATS--so you're smart enough. Put in the time and you'll get great grades. Do NOT let the fear of not getting good grades stop you from going to a school you really want to go to. I'm happy to discuss this further through PM, so feel free to reach out, but I absolutely do not think this should be part of your decision-making process. A great GPA is possible anywhere when you're smart enough to get into Cornell.

  If you can, visit schools and see which vibes best with you personally. Don’t choose a school or major based on your law school aspirations. DEFINITELY don't choose all your extracurriculars for transactional reasons either. College isn't just a vehicle to get to law school--it's a wonderful experience all on its own. You're mentioning VERY different schools with very different students. It's totally possible that Clemson is the perfect school for you. Or maybe you totally fall in love with Furman and are willing to take a bit of a risk in the career services department. But you have to look beyond majors, clubs, and your chance at a 4.0…one's an enormous public institution well-known for sports and parties (nothing wrong with that!), one's a small & not so well-known LAC, and one's a very well-known Ivy in Ithaca (which some people love and others absolutely hate). Of course, finances are also a consideration, and that's a serious issue to contend with.
• 5 Likes

  Seeking Perfection Alum Member

  March 2018 4428 karma

  It all depends on how confident you are that you will be trying to go to law school. If you have significant doubts or might want to work for a few years after undergrad before applying(which law schools like) its probably best to go to a top notch school. If you know you are going to law school and are strongly inclined to go straight through to law school, then take the money.

  If you know for sure that you will be going to law school taking the large scholarship just makes sense. Undergraduate institution barely influences admissions. You would obviously save money with the scholarship. Finally, it might be slightly easier to get a good GPA which should be your main concern. If you go to law school it will be your JD not your undergrad degree which mainly determines what ling term job prospects you have. So there is no reason to pay more for a fancy undergrad name.
• Leah M B Alum Member ⭐

  March 2018 8392 karma

  You’ve been getting some great advice here. @calcal101 really nailed it. Undergrad is such an incredible time where you will learn so much. Don’t be too focused on law school right now. Figure out what is the best fit for you personally. Don’t go to a school that doesn’t feel right to you just for the sake of prepping for law school. You will learn so much, you’ll grow and change and be challenged, you might end up with a major you never expected. Or deciding that law school isn’t the path you want to take. Be open to where life leads you. I guarantee at some point, you will be surprised by something you like or don’t like that you never would have guessed. Do multiple minors or heck, I was undeclared my freshman year so I could try things out. And that year of exploration was maybe my favorite learning experience I’ve ever had (and I’m almost twice your age haha). One of my favorite classes I’ve taken was in linguistics, which I opted to take pass/fail, just because I think language is fascinating. And it was! I loved learning the origin of words. I had the freedom to try on several different things to see what fit. It was so fun and challenging.

  As @"Seeking Perfection" also mentioned, cost is a not insignificant part of this. If you’re taking out loans, be mindful of how much. Law school is also very very expensive, even if you get full tuition and only have to pay living expenses. And if you end up at Harvard, Yale or Stanford (which you might have aspirations for, and seem bright enough to achieve), you will likely end up taking out nearly $200k in loans. Law schools really don’t put much emphasis on the prestige of your undergrad. I graduated from a tiny no-name liberal arts school with a degree in music and, while my LSAT is very good but not stellar, am having a decent amount of success in my application cycle. I’m not aiming for HYS, but those schools every year take students from a wide variety of schools, from Ivy to tiny liberal arts.

  Go to a school that will leave you with the smallest amount of debt that you think you would be happy at. Choose a major that you enjoy and would want to forge a career in. Take some electives just to try things out. Leave the worrying about law school until later.

  It’s awesome that you are being so forward thinking though. That will serve you well in life. Congrats on getting in to some really good schools. You have such a bright future ahead!
• 1 Like

  AllezAllez21 Member Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐

  March 2018 1917 karma

  Tons and tons of great advice above.

  Just to reiterate: don't make this decision based on potential future hopes of law school. It's great that you're thinking about career choices, but those preferences are very likely to change during college.

  Try your best wherever you go, and soak up the experience of college.

  Also, cost is likely important. Unless your parents are very well off, you should think about the cost of attending each of these schools. Taking out loans is a really big deal. Even if your parents are going to pay for school, talk to them about how this will impact their retirement, their and your quality of life, and whether it would limit their ability to help you with grad school. There's actually quite a bit of evidence that the "prestige" of undergraduate schools matters little in job and earning outcomes for graduates. So, I caution you against just chasing the highest ranked school. Instead, go for a mix of "fit" and finances. What feels like the best environment for you? Where do you think you'll be happiest?

  You seem like a thoughtful kid, and I wish you the best.
• westcoastbestcoast Alum Member

  March 2018 3788 karma

  Before you decide to attend law school, I would highly advise you to at least talk to lawyers and take law classes. Preferably, you should also take some time off after undergraduate to work as a paralegal so that you can see the day to day grind of legal work and not fooled by the glamorous image of lawyers that is portrayed in shows like Suits. When I first entered college, I had only a mild interest in law school, so I took the opportunity to take different classes in different fields, from business to programming. I found the law classes to be more interesting and I also had the opportunity to speak with alumni who are current attourneys. These conversations further solidified my decision to attend law school as well. Like everyone has said, you should first deteremine whether or not you will find legal work to be interesting and then think about the financial aspects of attending law school. Lawyers' salaries are bimodal, meaning that most make either 60k or 180k. If you aren't attending a top school, particularly a T13, chances are that you will be making 60k a year.

  Also realize that you don't need a legal degree to get into politics. It's best you take internships or do volunteer work for the causes that you say are passionate about. Building your reputation from the ground up in this fashion will help you build your political career.
• Raphael Rivera Alum Member

  April 2018 edited April 2018 176 karma

  I would go where the money goes, assuming that law is the end goal and not the bachecors.
• 1 Like

  testfromaway Alum Member

  April 2018 280 karma

  I'm going to echo what's been said above: put law out of your mind while you make this decision. You are a full human being, not just a lawyer-in-training. I went into undergrad thinking I would be an anthropologist, managed to not take a single anthropology course in college, and wound up majoring in art history. I settled into the idea of being an art historian and then got hired at a newspaper and 180ed to wanting to be a journalist. Then I went abroad, spoke to a lawyer who had a fascinating story, and now I'm studying for the LSAT. Within the past FOUR MONTHS my life ambition has changed twice.

  And that's okay. It's really fine. If I change my mind again, I can always opt out of applying to law school (having an LSAT score in my back pocket can't hurt me, I think, and I am feeling ready to commit to a career at this point. But still, there's flexibility).

  So pick somewhere where you love the location. Pick somewhere that's a good size for you. Pick somewhere where the ethos of the student body feel right.

  You're more than half a decade away from a law degree, so put that out of your head right now. Don't make this decision based on what you think your 22 year old self will need, because you haven't met that person yet and I promise you that they'll be miles different from what you'd expect right now.

  For what it's worth, I went to the school where I was the big fish in a small pond. Sometimes I didn't feel challenged enough, but I stood out to professors, led clubs, earned a prestigious national fellowship, and now live abroad on the State Dept's dime. If I had gone somewhere bigger, I would've majored in something else and would probably be living a different, though maybe equally satisfying, life.

  There's not a wrong choice, there are only different choices that will lead you different places. Don't focus on the end goal so much right now that you fail to give yourself time to grow into all of it. It's going to be fine, whichever school you choose.

  (though avoid debt, that's maybe the only thing you could do at the moment to severely limit yourself)
• AudaciousRed Alum Member

  April 2018 2689 karma

  Agreed with the others, particularly calcal and seekingperfection. They nailed it. You are so young. Get some life experience under your belt. See what you like and don't like. Very few actually wind up sticking with their plans when they first embark on their college journey. I know you're full of spunk and direction and sureness on your future, but until you've had some experiences and learned what you really do like and don't like, it really is hard to say. Please don't take it as us old folks raining on your parade. We really aren't. But if we could talk to our younger selves, I think we would be saying the exact same things: Enjoy the experience. Try new things. You can do that while also keeping your GPA up.
  I have learned so much on my journey, and really, it's been my life experiences, professors I've talked to, and finding things I have enjoyed (and not enjoyed) that keeps bringing me back to this path, over and over.
  When I first started, I was going for fine arts. It has been my knack since a child, and I am really good at it. Location kept me from being able to get my BA in fine arts. That was ultimately a saving grace. After I saw what a friend is going though and talking later to people who have majored in it, I realized it really wasn't for me as a degree. And I don't need a degree in it to enjoy and grow as an artist, either. But, it's easier to afford art as a hobby with a good job that I also enjoy, than to do art as my main career and have law/writing as a hobby. So, then I went Journalism, which I also enjoy and am doing well in. I will wind up getting my BA in Mass Communications and Media Studies. This, too, opens up doors. And this, too, has helped me realize that the law path keeps calling me, through discussions and doing different classes. I argued the merits of the "Don't go full retard" speech from Tropic Thunder in one of my classes where the book's author tore it up for it's social insensitivity. Successfully (I got an A+ in that class). I love making difficult arguments and backing it up with logic and facts pertaining to the argument, and I do it for fun. I'm the weird student who picks a topic that's not been done because it takes a ridiculous amount of research for the paper or the argument. I learned through my classes that I enjoy research. I love a puzzle and a challenge. I joke that if law school isn't crazy hard, I'm going to be disappointed. As much as I have hated the LSAT and all the work, I secretly love it. For the first time, a test is giving me a really hard challenge. Only through experiencing college do you learn these weird things about yourself. If you had told me as a high school graduate that I'd be majoring in communications, I would have laughed in your face. That was nowhere on my radar at the time. Law school, maybe. But certainly not the path I took, the age I am now, or what would happen between then and now. Life was that crazy. And you only learn this once you've lived it.
  That being said...
  Furman, while small, sounds like it might offer you a much more enjoyable time. If it seems easier, challenge yourself. Go above and beyond. You can make college harder, if you want to. Take more difficult classes. Write harder papers. But if everything is there that you are looking for, and it doesn't cost you 10 years of debt before you even get to law school, do it. LSAC isn't going to be that much more impressed with your undergraduate school to make up for a meh GPA and/or a crappy LSAT score. Those things are vastly more important. Though, they might care that you have a professor who writes a great recommendation on this motivated kid in their tiny college that they got to know better. You may not get that at a bigger school. They might care that you had those leadership positions a little. Will they care more if it came from Clemson? Maybe a tiny bit. I can't say for sure. But what are the odds you will get one in a big school where suddenly you are the little fish? Just food for thought.
  Good luck to you! You sound motivated. Keep it up, and even if law turns out to not be your thing, you'll do well in life.
• ed2018law-1 Free Trial Member

  April 2018 6 karma

  I just wanted to say a big 'THANK YOU!" to everyone for taking the time to vote and write out really great advice/points! Been talking to my parents and now taking a trip to Cornell this month to talk with more students, a pre-law advisor, professors, etc. All this will help support the final decision. Thanks again!
• Seeking Perfection Alum Member

  April 2018 4428 karma

  @ericadaly18 said:
  I just wanted to say a big 'THANK YOU!" to everyone for taking the time to vote and write out really great advice/points! Been talking to my parents and now taking a trip to Cornell this month to talk with more students, a pre-law advisor, professors, etc. All this will help support the final decision. Thanks again!

  Well if you are considering law school, one of the most important things you can keep in mind wherever you attend is to never trust a pre-law advisor to be competent. That's not to say they are never worth talking to, but stupid pre-law advisors have messed up a lot of people's law school applications. Use the power of the internet to do some research of your own and to apply a reasonableness check to any advice they give you.