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Sooooo all my decisions are basically in...
LSATcantwin
Alum Member Sage ⭐
And I'd have to say I am still as unsure and lost as before I had my decisions from the schools...
My final results are:
Acceptances:
- None
Waitlist:
- UCLA
- U. Mich
- U. Penn
- Northwestern
- Notre Dame
- Duke
- UVA
Rejections: (mostly expected here)
- Harvard
- Stanford
- Columbia
- U.Chicago
- USC
Two still pending:
- Yale (rejection)
- Irvine
So what the heck am I suppose to do. I have to go this cycle, I really don't have an option. I need to push these waitlists until I can't any longer. I just don't know what the best strategy is.
Obviously I have schools I'd rather attend on the waitlist, but since I'm on the waitlist I don't get to choose. I have to beg them all and hope someone likes me enough right?
Sigh, I have to say....this is not fun!
Comments
Sending lots of good vibes for those waitlists your way!
You visited UCLA recently right? Maybe send them a thank you for the visit? I assume you already sent LOCIs?
At this point, it's a matter of standing out I think. Sorry - not much help at this point. Maybe you could contact Spivey or another admissions advisor on what you could do with those WLs.
I was thinking about that but they are freaking expensive. I have a ton of family pressure to attend law school this cycle....this is rough!
Eeep! Even if you just email for a one-time consultation? I have no idea since I never tried contacting them directly. It could be worth it though, if you end up with your top choice law school (but only do a one time consultation...I wouldn't advise further).
I def. feel you on the need to go this cycle. I've been putting it off for a few years now and I really need to go this coming fall. I've only heard from 3 schools (one accept, one reject, and one waitlist) and am waiting on 13 more for any response.
Oh boy, now I am starting to get scared. Even the mighty Lord Vader meets challenges... Sending them LOCI and praying seems to be the best option at the moment. Best wishes!
Incidentally, would you mind if I asked for your numbers (you can PM me if you want)?
It's NP I'm pretty open about it....
LSAT: 171
cGPA: 2.83
Degree GPA: 4.0 (like 70 units of straight A's)
Softs:
Military
Fed court
State court
Law firm
I want to help! This is an interesting challenge.
I don't know if this would be of much help, but it's worth a shot talking to Spivey consultants on LawSchool.life
https://www.lawschool.life/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=125&start=375
Haha right? It's a weird feeling...I sent an E-mail to Spivy but other than that I'm clueless.
I almost want to do what you suggested and say;
"Hey (Insert school) I havn't been accepted anywhere and have been put on a lot of waitlists. I have a significant amount of pressure to attend law school this year, PLEASE LOVE ME?"
These adcomms are people. They do feel sympathy. I would word it very carefully, however.
I'm thinking you might get at least one love call before the 2018-2019 school year begins, given your LSAT score and softs. Stay positive!
Northwestern looks like it might be one of your better chances. So really carefully craft your LOCI there.
Other than that, I guess a June retake might help.
You had a GPA addendum right?
Even aside from the LOCI, I think you are going to want to reach out to all of them expressing your continued interest about once a month. When they accept people off the waitlist they are going to want to know that the people are available and will accept.
If Spivey comes back and is too expensive, I'd recommend my admissions consultant. She is amazing and has helped me work through some really complicated stuff as well. She's INCREDIBLE (and probably cheaper).
http://knowyouroptions.net/kimberly-snyder-mehta/
Well, I have sugguestions of schools that you might try and see. I am willing to bet they would take you in heartbeat. They are more LSAT heavy than GPA that you might want to consider.
University of Houston school of law
http://www.law.uh.edu/admissions/faq.asp#general
University of Missouri-Kansas City school of law
https://law.umkc.edu/prospective-students/jd-program/admissions-facts-at-a-glance/
University of Arizona School of Law
https://law.arizona.edu/arizona-law-facts-figures
@Kermit750 yes I emailed them!
@"Seeking Perfection" yeah I had an addendum I wrote. I submitted it with pretty much every application. I’ll reach out to all of them for sure.
@PublicInterested thanks!! Once I talk to Spivy and see what my options are I’ll keep this in mind
@lTexlawz thanks for the suggestions. Breaking into T-14 has become something I need to accomplish though for many reasons lol some silly some not!
Spivey responds quickly through lawschool.life.
I had previously worked with them on something else! So I emailed them!
Oh, nice!
I don't want to be a jerk, but I am going to challenge your framing. You have set up two rules which may well be incompatible. 1) You MUST go this year and 2) You MUST attend a T14. Based on the rules that you have chosen to set, the total number of choices available to you may be "0". This is like a LR question which uses conflicting premises You've got to start by accepting that you may have to let go of one of these rules (and you can almost certainly let go of one or both).
There seems to be some softness in the Must Be T14 rules since your application list included some schools outside the T14. Perhaps, though, your goals have changed since you applied and you wouldn't attend those schools even if you got in.
I'm going to push back on the "must attend this year" rule that you've set. It's almost never true that you can't wait a cycle. The only real reason I've come up with is that you've been diagnosed with an incurable cancer and have a prognosis of 3 years at best. I'm going to assume that's not the case. Short of that you actually do have the choice to wait a year. It may be difficult, it may make you unpopular with your family, it may force you to move out or get a job, but it's almost always the case that you can chose to wait a year.
Food for thought... what happens if you don't get any waitlist offers this year? Are you honestly going to give up on law school? 'Cause if your "I can't wait" rule is true, that's the only available conclusion. If you don't get in, you're going to move on to a different career path. If that's not true, then your "must attend this year" is a want and not a need.
I'm not trying to be a jerk and I probably understand you pain better than many. I sat on 8 T14 waitlists last year, did visits and LOCI and didn't get an offer from a single one. One thing I learned from that experience is that being honest with myself about what "must" happen and what I "wanted" to happen made things much easier. When I stopped trying to push an unmovable boulder, I was much less stressed and was able to see my options more clearly.
There is a happy ending to the story. This year several schools that waitlisted me last year offered me spots this year. My options are already much better and I'm still waiting to hear back from some T6 schools (not terribly optimistic, but already have options that I love).
Don't lower your standards, you've raised all of ours!
Mmm I was just trying to let a user know that I’ve applied to the schools I’m willing to attend. UCLA, Notre Dame and Irvine are not T-14, and the rest are. My mentality typically doesn’t match the average law school users though.
I’m sorry your waitlists didn’t work out for you last year. I’m not ready to give up hope just yet and to push as much as I can to get into a school this year. I am not going to go into personal details, but this year is as close to a must as they come for me personally.
I’m 28 and employed. I have reason to get to my JD as fast as I can. I have things that are running on experation dates.
That being said I appreciate your candor. I just don’t think my personal situation quite lines up. If I don’t get in off a waitlist by the end of August, then well, I’ll have quite a bit to reconsider.
Just out of curiosity though why Irvine, Notre Dame, and UCLA?
Notre Dame seems tough to defend to me with WUSTL not making the cut especially since you could probably have expected a scholarship at WUSTL.
Are you looking to end up in California? If so maybe Notre Dame has the bigger national name?
That said, I understand your position on wanting in at the Top 14 or one of very few top regional schools. They really are the best in terms of LRAP and employment outcomes by a massive degree.
Further the waitlists definitely sometimes work out.
Might be worth it to email Irvine and tell them if you are accepted you will 100% put down your deposit there and it’s your first choice (you can always change your mind if a waitlist comes through). I grew up near UCI and everyone in the area is super impressed with the law school— I think you would still have great employment options if you succeed there.
I’m a Cali resident and want to end up in the state (I think lol) so Irvine and UCLA take big pull. ND is sorta silly but I have family that went there and that live in the area around the school so it’s a pull for different reasons haha
For the schools you’re still waiting on- when did you apply? It could be a good sign that they’re still considering your file
Further - is it possible these schools are waiting for your GPA issue to resolve itself? I vaguely remember you saying you’ve notified them of the LSAC issue. Maybe they don’t realize it wasn’t resolved?
I wanna call adcomms and tell them to admit you
These schools are probably stringing you along because they want to make absolute certain that you attend if they admit.
That is what I would do to you with your numbers, if I were to treat admissions as a business like adcomms do.
Were your essays edited by 7Sage editors? I highly recommend that you reach out to them if you haven't already.
They helped with my personal statement! They were awesome!
Great! I'm sure they can help you with your LOCI too.
Have you told UCLA or any other school that it's your top choice and that you are committed to attending if admitted? (I agree with @goingfor99th in that they want to be certain.)
I'm shocked to be honest! Why did you say the rejections list was mostly expected? I feel like your stats are great honestly..
I wish you the best of luck! I'm sure you'll get into one of your waitlisted schools which are all still great schools!
These are fine sentiments, but I don't think they reflect what is happening.
I think they like you, but I think they waitlisted you because of your numbers not as a yield protection type thing.
http://mylsn.info/nu6gst/
That is based on previous cycles and UCI, Notre Dame, and Northwestern are the only schools you applied to where it looks like you had much of a shot of a flat out acceptance.
Your chances based on numbers were even worse than law school numbers indicates if the schools don't need high LSAT scores to leep their medians which they might not this cycle given the increase in 170+ scorers. Yet you have clawed your way onto basically every waitlist law school numbers would give you a shot at. Now you just need to get from one of those to an acceptance.
Oh I completely agree, I am 100% grateful even for the spot I’m in given my 2.8 cGPA.
It’s just a matter of converting a WL into an acceptance now lol that’s the challenge.
I just baffles me that I can be THIS held back by grades from 10 years ago.
I changed, I served the community, I went back to school and maintained a 4.0 for 2 years. I got jobs in the field. I’ve made connections and have potential JOBS lined up.
I studied for a year and a half to break into a 170 LSAT
But getting into the damn schools still hinges on grades that happened a decade ago. Lol
Past will haunt you no matter what anyone says!
Haha brigade the adcoms! You could just sign it “future president @"Paul Caint" that would be enough!
You are certainly right that it is irrational. But, I'm sure the law schools know it is irrational. They just are slaves to the US News report ratings. Whuch is all the more reason for the LOCIs and other outreach efforts from the waitlists. Yield matters to them too.
@LSATcantwin — I feel your pain. My undergraduate gpa was from 20 years ago, but is still more important, it seems, than my graduate work or employment past. It’s frustrating. Good luck!
Also, remember you can transfer into the T-14 from lower-ranked schools, if you do well during your first year. If the top schools are your goal, there is more than one way to get there.
>
From what I have heard it is almost always a bad idea to plan on transferring. It is not that you can't. An approximately fixed percent of the class probably can every year.
It is that you have no way of knowing whether you will be in the top part of the class that has thr option to transfer. You will(probably for the first time in your life) be in a class full of people approximately as smart as you and will be being graded against them. And everyone will know that your future jobs are riding on how well you do. You can't count on substantially outworking them because most will work very hard. You can't count on being better at law school than them because aside from the LSAT which you all scored similarly on and which only explains a fairly small percentage of the variation in law school grades there isn't any way to know how good you will be at law school.
The other thing is that a lot of the schools just outside the Top 14 would be fine schools to attend if you did very well. You might choose to tranfer or just roll with the fact that you are in the top 5-10 percent or whatever at a very solid school and will get a job. Essentially, you only get the chance to transfer if you don't actually need it. This makes going to these law schools planning on transferring all the more dangerous. If you go there and can't tranfer because you didn't do well enough, that will be when you wish you had the safety of being at a Top 14 to begin with where median is good enough to get the job that you want.
This is why after some research I became not quite Top 14 or bust, but Top 14 or full scholarship at Top 25 or bust. The idea of being right back where you started after 3 years with no legal job or one that pays less than you were already earning, a mountain of debt, and too weak an LRAP to help you pay the debt is pretty scary.
It is also great motivation to find a way off a waitlist into the relative safety if the Top 14.
First: I’m really sorry to hear that you’re in this jam, but glad to hear that all is not lost.
To throw my two cents in: I agree with many of the sentiments above, although I would give you a bit more charity in the claim that you “must” attend. In any case, no, I would not attend a school with plans of transferring—although, that is a way into a top school there are just too many variables to bet on it beforehand as @"Seeking Perfection" noted. I would also up the suggestion that you consider retaking in the summer, if you think that you can snag two to three more points to make your split more extreme. Lastly, really craft those LOCIs. I don’t know about you, but I would really take time with UCLA, Northwestern, and UVA out of your WLs. I say this, but obviously you should do as much as possible at as many of these as possible. I’d just make those a priority though.
In the meantime, crossin’ fingers and saying prayers!
Been following your story since your AMA. This admissions year has some unforeseen events that have been difficult for more applicants than in the past, it seems. I think in about a month this is going to get better, hopefully soon. This is a really good list of schools. I wonder about emailing the ThinkingLSAT podcast. They're good about replying to emails and I get the impression they've just about seen it all.
.
What a bummer!
Our admissions course has lessons about what to do after your waitlisted:
My advice is to visit where you can. Now, rhetorical question: when you visit, can you stop by the admissions office?
First, read the waitlist literature and make sure they don’t cover this question. Harvard, for example, explicitly notes that you can’t visit the admissions office. Most schools are more chill about it.
I’d suggest that you email the admissions office to let them know you’re coming. Don’t ask for an appointment—that’s too formal—but as long as they don’t specifically prohibit this, you can ask if you can stop by the admissions office to express your enthusiasm in person.
Bring a question, or simply say, e.g., “I’m David, I flew in from Pittsburgh, I just wanted to tell you in person that you’re my first choice. I know you’re very busy right now so I don’t want to waste any more of your term; I just wanted to introduce myself in person.” You can give them a résumé to make it easier for them to remember your name and note your visit.
You can also ask to be set you up with a current student and/or audit a class. (Take notes on your convo with the student; you’ll use them for a LOCI later.)
i agree with @"Seeking Perfection" . To transfer, especially schools worth transferring, you need to be almost top of your class. If you had the credentials to do that well, you would probably be able to bid for biglaw or a nice clerkship in T1 school. In my recent law school visit, alot of people were within 3 points of my lsat score and they were very bright. Making median isnt even guranteed, let alone being top of your class.
Hey,
I'm a huge fan of stats, it was my secret undergraduate passion. I think an important thing to remember is that a wait list does not mean a rejection, not even close. You applied to a TONNE of schools, and so did a LOT of people. So what ends up happening is that the same small pool of people at the top of the pile get the offers. So like 1000 offers go to 100 students, 1 from each of the 10 law schools they applied to. Once they pick a school, 9 spots are still available. Now I know this seems like common sense and that it's hard to stay motivated being on a wait list, but there is indeed good reason to not get too discouraged. There aren't many people who apply to just a couple schools. This process of whittling down is going to happen, and from what it sounds like, you are an amazing candidate. Chin up and don't lose your phone. I think it's coming.
Also, I was originally rejected from a school and then I actually sent them a very long e-mail. Turns out they really liked my application, my GPA just wasn't there, so we talked about some things I could do, I did those things and they were happy, the offer came in the same afternoon.
Good luck, don't forget the numbers.
Turns out they really liked my application, my GPA just wasn't there, so we talked about some things I could do, I did those things and they were happy, the offer came in the same afternoon.
@terrynicholasj if you don't mind, what do you mean some things you could do? Like were those in line with changing some stuff on your app? I'm curious because obviously you can't change the LSAT or GPA in a day. If you don't mind sharing or even PMing I would appreciate it.
A colleague of mine had a good convo with a prof and was able to get an unsolicited bump up on his scholarship to be a full ride. Numbers arent determinative!
Man, this is enough to keep my head up by itself! Thank you so much for this!!
I feel ya man. I've also been waitlisted at a bunch of schools. I just sent my LOCI to UVA last week. The letter outlined that UVA was my top choice and that if accepted, I would commit and then I covered my own work experience and how it relates to specific research of a couple UVA law professors.