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LastLSATLastLSAT Alum Member
edited October 2018 in General 1028 karma

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Comments

  • FixedDiceFixedDice Legacy Member
    1804 karma

    Settle.

  • LastLSATLastLSAT Alum Member
    edited October 2018 1028 karma

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  • LSAT_WreckerLSAT_Wrecker Legacy Member
    edited April 2018 4850 karma

    I think a question only you can answer is this:

    20 years from now, when you look at your 'I love me' wall and see a Georgetown JD hanging up there, will you feel a sense of regret you didn't retake / reapply? If you can honestly answer, "No", then consider going all in on being a Hoya. If not.....

  • sakox010sakox010 Member
    edited April 2018 333 karma

    @LastLSAT said:
    I was still about 3 points below my PT average when I hit 172 this February

    I think this is part of the reason why you underperformed your numbers; not having a 172 as opposed to a 165 until March.

  • LastLSATLastLSAT Alum Member
    edited October 2018 1028 karma

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  • FixedDiceFixedDice Legacy Member
    edited April 2018 1804 karma
    1. As far as my knowledge is concerned, reapplying to schools you have been admitted to tends to have negative effect (if any at all). Unless things work out really well, you will have less leverage.
    2. A sizable portion of LSAT takers tend to score below their PT average.
    3. Not to cast doubt on your intellectual horsepower, but scoring equal to or above 172 is no minor feat.
  • m.c lshopefulm.c lshopeful Alum Member
    614 karma

    Goals: My primary goal is to land BigLaw in a medium-sized Midwestern city to which I have strong ties, then go on to work in-house for a research hospital or university.>

    Now, I'm no expert... but I have a strange feeling from all the information I've absorbed that UChicago might be overkill for what you're trying to accomplish. The general consensus is that if you know EXACTLY where you want to work that going to school there is almost always the best decision. A school in location can make up for the difference in ranking.

    I see you mention having strong ties so you could undoubtedly get back there, probably no matter where you attend and there is no doubt you would be rare as a UChi grad in the firm. I'm just throwin this out there though... Is there maybe a slightly lower-ranked, but still highly regarded, school in the city you want to live in or nearby that you have close to a full-ride at? If you truly believe you are UChi material, what would it look like if you became the All-star of that school and had Career Services or professors shoving you in front of hiring partners of the BigLaw firms in your desired city throughout the year?

    You'll do what is best for you but I didn't see this consideration in your post and so I thought I'd bring it up here. Best of luck!

  • OhnoeshalpmeOhnoeshalpme Alum Member
    edited April 2018 2531 karma

    "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" applies pretty clearly here. It's cliche, sure, and your odds of getting a better offer next are very high. But, it would mean waiting a year for something that may not improve your odds of landing a job in academia or Big Law. Is it worth waiting a year over? That's for you to decide. I personally think the risk of waiting a year for a better offer is greater than 90k worth of debt (which is very low for a t-15).

  • Jane1990Jane1990 Alum Member
    edited April 2018 197 karma

    Have you considered applying ED for Northwestern next cycle? Northwestern gives $150K merit scholarship to ED applicants. If you are planning to stay in the Midwest and are debt-adverse, I think Northwestern might be a good option for you. I've lived in both cities for years, and the living expense in Chicago is much cheaper than DC.

  • LastLSATLastLSAT Alum Member
    edited April 2018 1028 karma

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  • LastLSATLastLSAT Alum Member
    edited October 2018 1028 karma

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  • LastLSATLastLSAT Alum Member
    edited October 2018 1028 karma

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  • m.c lshopefulm.c lshopeful Alum Member
    614 karma

    @LastLSAT said:
    @"mickey.caleb" Thanks for bringing that consideration up! Yes, I did think about going to a strong regional T20 that gave me a full ride + stipend (there aren't any good law schools in my city, but this T20 does feed in). That ship has sailed, however, as I decided that taking courses in my area of interest and having a better shot at academia from a T14 was more important for my goals.

    I don't think there is ever such thing as overkill on qualifications. I know of several people who went to my UG and did law school at HYS just to return back to the city I want to work in. Sure, most lawyers here are from the low-ranking regional schools, but I don't want to bank on being top 5% or whatever instead of just going to a top school where at/above median is good enough for BigLaw.

    Are you one of the people who wants KC? Heard a lotta companies been moving/growing there. Met a number of people going for the WashU to KC route. Sounded like WashU was a feeder for top KC firms. Plus, graduating without debt certainly cuts out some competition for opening clerking positions from people who are trying to do Biglaw to pay-off their debt.

    Anyways, I haven't met a lot of people who want to do Biglaw before clerking so that is interesting... Usually its clerking then biglaw or biglaw then gov/PI etc.

    I think the factor that tips the scale here is how much do you want to be in academia? If that is very important to you, then no question I would retake and reapply! Hell, the reapplying alone early in the cycle is probably gonna be a much larger difference than a few more points on the LSAT at the 172+ range, especially with your already stellar GPA. If it's something you just think sounds cool, you could be in for a long wait to only have the same ultimate outcome but just with a different school on the degree paper in your office.

  • LastLSATLastLSAT Alum Member
    edited October 2018 1028 karma

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  • akistotleakistotle Member 🍌🍌
    9366 karma

    Hi @LastLSAT,

    Maybe you can ask @"Accounts Playable" about reapplying in tonight’s office hours!:
    https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/15908/tonight-at-6pm-et-office-hours-with-accounts-playable-thu-april-26-6-pm-edt

    He got accepted to the schools he turned down in his previous cycle.

  • TheMikeyTheMikey Alum Member
    4196 karma

    Although your outcome at Georgetown isn't bad, I think it is not the best you could get with your numbers. 3.97/172 can get you good money at other T14's and I know you're debt averse but those numbers are possibly HYS territory (obv keep in mind they do need-based aid!). I think even without a retake, reapplying in September will probably get you much better options than GULC, but if you really want to go now, GULC at 90k COA is a good option.

    Academia is really hard to get into, and I've heard many mixed things about it from "go to HYS" to "take the large scholarship at a T14 to lower debt". So I'm not too informed about academia except that it's extremely tough to get into, so maybe someone else can chime in on that.

  • Tom_TangoTom_Tango Alum Member
    902 karma

    @LastLSAT said:
    Stats: 3.97 GPA, 165 ---> 172 LSAT. I'm pretty much K-JD since I only have part-time work experience and a volunteer position after graduating last spring. I don't really have any extraordinary softs to speak of either.

    Goals: My primary goal is to land BigLaw in a medium-sized Midwestern city to which I have strong ties, then go on to work in-house for a research hospital or university. I would like to clerk at the federal level if my grades permit. Also, I'm somewhat interested in academia much further along in my career. I'm fine with clerking after a few years in BigLaw and pursuing a PhD later to get into academia though, so I wouldn't be relying solely on Georgetown's reputation to accomplish these goals. Also, I'd only want to clerk and teach in the relatively non-competitive Midwestern region that I want to work in.

    After pretty much blanketing the T20 and applying near the deadline everywhere against my better judgement, my best option is Georgetown with $120k total in scholarship. This will leave my COA at around $90k after expected family contribution. I am very debt averse—my absolute maximum limit for borrowing is $120k, so I'm already approaching the high end of what I am willing to take on. I'm attempting to negotiate an extra $10k/year, but don't really have any leverage since they already matched my $$$ to the second-highest ranked school I was accepted to with their initial offer.

    However, Georgetown offers a phenomenal range of courses, clinics, journals, etc. in my area of interest (Health Law), so I feel like the cost may be justified. I also love the idea of Georgetown's convenient on-campus housing and their interesting Curriculum B.

    I am ultimately very happy with this result, but feel that I could have achieved a better outcome with an earlier application. UChicago was my original goal. For this reason, I'm debating retaking and reapplying. I was still about 3 points below my PT average when I hit 172 this February, and feel like I could hit 175+ by September if I were to retake. Also, I think getting some full-time work experience under my belt could help out.

    Do you all think it would be worth it to retake and reapply? Or should I just settle for Georgetown and focus on trying to get them to increase their offer?

    Thanks!

    Retake

  • Seeking PerfectionSeeking Perfection Alum Member
    edited April 2018 4423 karma

    If you want to clerk and work in the midwest, I would assume the contacts of a midwestern law school would be more uselful (Northwestern, Michigan, Chicago, or even WUSTL). While the top schools have more national reach, closer schools are always going to have more contacts in your region and might even have firms from there come to their OCI. It will also be easier to get to any interviews with midwestern firms from there and there may be lawyers from your school in hiring positions.

    I think you can get better results for your purposes applying early next year with the same numbers, but you might as well retake if you wait a cycle. Improving from a 172 is definitely attainable(I did it) and could make a difference in concert with work experience.

    What sort of message will it send to a midwestern law firm if you go to a school in DC? Aren't they likely to think they are just your backup option for if you can't get a job in the hyper competitive DC market?

    Finally cost of living especially at Michigan(I might be a little biased now) is going to be lower than DC which will automatically save you money.

    Edit: If you want law school academia, rank will be pivotal. If you want academia in a different field, you may be right that the PhD can make up for any shortage of prestige on Georgetown's part.

  • _oshun1__oshun1_ Alum Member
    edited April 2018 3652 karma

    Reapplying to schools that you rejected/that rejected you wont be a hinderance to your app in any way. Schools like to see that you're still interested in [spending your money on] them. It's a money/stats game for schools, not a personal thing. I've heard of people applying to the same school like 5 years in a row while they kept retaking the LSAT ie HYS and ultimately the student ended up rejecting the school's acceptance bc they were mad it took them so many tries to get in.
    If you want to clerk and eventually get into academia, I think a more prestigious law school would be a better bet to get there.
    Your GPA is near perfect. You should be able to get into a T10 with that same amount of money, even if you dont retake the LSAT or just get a point higher or dont improve at all. Maybe get an admissions consultant to perfect your personal statement, do all the Why X essays, apply really early, make sure to send those LOCIs and visits schools to show your interest. Beef up your resume with some volunteer work / work experience over the next few months.
    I really dont have a leg to stand on in this convo but your stats are fantastic and I think you are settling by accepting Georgetown.
    Also, this was a weird cycle so next cycle just might be kinder to you.

  • LastLSATLastLSAT Alum Member
    edited October 2018 1028 karma

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  • Jane1990Jane1990 Alum Member
    197 karma

    @LastLSAT Here is an interesting post about reapplying with same numbers: https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/15604/re-applying-a-case-study

  • LastLSATLastLSAT Alum Member
    edited October 2018 1028 karma

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  • _oshun1__oshun1_ Alum Member
    edited April 2018 3652 karma

    I do not have any evidence to show you other than anectodotal evidence. I think just calling admissions offices and asking how they view re-applicants could work if you want direct evidence. I’ve just never heard of someone being hurt by reapplying so I’m not sure where the above commenter got that info from. Retake and reapply seems to be preached pretty often. And I think that, considering you applied very late, you could seriously just send in the exact same app earlier and get better results. IMO it’s rude to send the exact same PS without at least minor tweaks but I’m not sure that even matters.
    3.97 gpa you could get a huge scholly anywhere you want.
    Spend the next year having fun and doing some volunteer work. You’ll have a chill year with less stress not having to worry about the LSAT and already being prepared for apps.

  • goingfor99thgoingfor99th Member
    edited April 2018 3072 karma

    Retake. You won't regret the extra effort or time. The time you spend on the LSAT now will probably also make law school easier for you.

  • Paul CaintPaul Caint Alum Member
    3521 karma

    Since you want to clerk, I would take some time to look at the clerkship numbers for each school. There seems to be a good correlation between US News ranking and clerkship rate, so you may want to seriously consider reapplying if clerking is your goal.

    I also feel like you should have gotten into higher-ranked schools with a 3.97 | 172 - reapplying could get you more $ and a higher ranked school.

    That being said, Georgetown is an amazing university and I really loved it when I visited :smile:

  • LastLSATLastLSAT Alum Member
    edited October 2018 1028 karma

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  • LastLSATLastLSAT Alum Member
    edited October 2018 1028 karma

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