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Related Discussions
Is being LGBT+ a disadvantage?
Hi Guys, so I'm very curious about this factor since I'm not from the States
and really don't know how the LGBT+ members are doing out there.
I've read a dreadful article about a gay law student attempting suicide and am very shocked, worried and so on.
I have little knowledge of how the situation and the societal circumstances are for the LGBT+ students
and their future careers in law.
Is it a disadvantage for applying to law schools and getting a job after graduation?
Does discrimination againts it exist among the classmates and co-workers?
and is it more harsh in certain states or schools?(e.g. religious schools..)
Please give me some light! help me!
Comments
Hi!
I'm not in law school yet, but I am bisexual/engaged to a same-sex partner, so I might be able to help. I think that at most law schools, it doesn't hurt and if anything it helps because of diversity. Higher education in the United States is usually pretty liberal and accepting of the LGBT community, so I wouldn't be particularly worried about it. Lots of law schools have specific LGBT clubs and clinics too.
Some states are definitely more liberal than others. If you go to California vs somewhere in the deep south, you may feel a little less accepted (but honestly I still don't think it will be a huge issue at the schools themselves). A lot of schools have religious "affiliations" but that doesn't mean they aren't accepting. Only the SUPER religious schools (like say Brigham Young) would present an issues. You're going to run into the occasional jerk anywhere you go, but the overall vibe seems to be really good.
The story about the suicide is really sad, but I would caution against taking from it that being gay in law school will be so awful as to make someone suicidal. Suicides happen regardless of sexual orientation, and that student most likely had other things going on in their life besides just being a gay law student.
Echoing the comments above, I believe that schools themselves are open and even seek diversity. Individual bias will always unfortunately exist.
For example, I volunteer at a legal clinic at a Jesuit school. Among its student organizations are both a LGBT society and a reproductive rights society.
Every other year, LSAC surveys law schools to "update information of importance to LGBT applicants." Here are the results: https://www.lsac.org/jd/diversity-in-law-school/lgbt-overview/survey
You can see that some schools are more LGBTQ+ friendly than others, and some schools do value the diversity you might bring as an LGBTQ+ student.
LSAC has a page called "RESOURCES FOR LGBTQ APPLICANTS": https://www.lsac.org/jd/diversity-in-law-school/lgbt-overview/lgbt-resources
@lsatstar can you give us a bit more info on the article? Was this individual discriminated against at the law school?
Most of your questions are directed towards law students and graduates; you won't find many of those people on this forum. Further since it can be so school specific, you should try reaching out to student and alumni from the schools you're interested in.
The only question I can chime in on:
"Is it a disadvantage for applying to law schools"
At the top schools, definitely not. Some of the schools publish the percent of students that identify as LGBT and the numbers are really high.
Hello! I am not in law school but I do know a few LGBT+ law students and lawyers. Every single one of them is heavily involved in LGBT+ professional groups in their area (San Francisco, Chicago, and Washington D.C.). I think that when you apply and get into law school, there will be a community there that will support you, depending on where you go.
I'm not in law school, but I went to college in the South. I'm bisexual and have never really felt disadvantaged-- just uncomfortable. However, my sexual orientation is not something that I advertise. I also have to say that I am pretty feminine, so most people assume I'm straight. Anyway, I have had a few people try to aggressively convince me that I'm straight and/or that bisexuality isn't real. I even had a gay man tell me that I was just going through a phase. Otherwise, it has never really been something that other people have used to make my life harder. Again, my circumstances are probably different than those of the majority. Based on what I have seen and heard, gay/bisexual men seem to have a much harder time dealing with society than gay/bisexual women. (That is meant to be a generalized statement, and it clearly does not apply to each individual person.)
Back to the article. If any high-achieving student were in a situation where the competition was fierce, and the student was struggling to keep up, I would absolutely expect some level of depression to be there. Throw in the extra struggle of being a member of the LGBTQ+ community and the potential for external and internal hatred... I really hate to say it, but I'm not shocked by the suicide attempt. I know a lot of people who have attempted/committed suicide, and most of them did not identify themselves as being a part of the LGBTQ+ community. I'm sure that whoever published this article really just wanted a good headline, and thought adding in that personal detail would contribute to that.
Also, @akistotle, thank you for those links. School resources and organizations are a big plus for me.
@"samantha.ashley92" oh my gosh isn't it crazy how other members of the LGBT community are the ones telling us that bisexuals aren't real. I'm super feminine too but people are always calling me a lesbian since I'm dating a girl. There could definitely be worse problems haha but it's so frustrating
I’m an openly gay womxn and have been working at law firms for 4+ years with openly gay attorneys and openly gay paralegals. I haven’t faced any issues in the workplace. I live in a conservative area (albeit in a California) so I do hear a lot of biting comments about gay people and other minority groups but i haven’t witnessed it being personally directed to any of us. As with any other job there’s going to be bigoted individuals with issues with minorities. One thing I certainly don’t do is announce that I’m gay at job interviews or announce it to a judge while I’m in court with an attorney or to opposing counsel bc it isn’t relevant.
I checked off lgbtq on all the schools I applied to last year that gave me the option. I mentioned wanting to work in the trans* name change clinic in my Why X essays. One school which accepted me even had an older lesbian student email me and ask if I had any questions about the school.
You can google “most LGBTQ friendly big law firms” and there is a list. It made me really happy.
Lots of attorneys are part of LGBTQ law associations and I look forward to being apart of one in the future as well.
I honestly think people have more issues with womxn specifically being attorneys than anything else but that’s just my observation. I deal w more sexual harassment generally than homophobia. But I’m also not necessarily visibly gay and have straight passing privilege. Definitely get a lot of stares and comments if I’m out with a gf..unless I’m in West Hollywood lol.
@MissChanandler it's so crazy! I had that happen to me a few times in the past, but never in a demeaning way. And the straight privilege thing that @"surfy surf" mentioned is so real. I have a friend who is pan and she's married to a straight man. Nobody would ever guess that she wasn't straight. I live in Nashville (progressive) but she lives in the middle of nowhere Tennessee, so she hears a lot of awful things. It's amazing what some people will say in front of you when they assume you'll agree! That actually bothers me more than the experiences I've had that actual have to do with me.
@BinghamtonDave I'm sorry I didn't save the article but I was googling life of gay students in law schools yesterday and read that article. It didn't mention about his personal life but did say he was a law student and was very depressed about it...so I guessed being gay was something that drived him to make that choice, felt very sad.
@akistotle Thank you so much for that link.
@Misschandler @samantha.ashley92 Thanks for the comment guys. It really mentally supports me that you are out there. Where I'm from is quite conservative, though they don't say it to the face. The same thing is going on here for people identifying as bisexual.
@surfy surf Thanks, this helped me very much. Glad to know the schools and firms are open to help out. I was also curious about the fact you told us, as checking off as LGBTQ+ would automatically mean that I have to open it to the world - nice to know it is respected.
@lsatstar absolutely! And as far as being open to the world by checking yes to being LGBTQ, I don't think that that's necessarily true. The admissions people would know but they're not going to actively out you to the rest of campus, so you'll still have the opportunity to come out to whomever you choose and in whatever way you feel is best.
@LSAT_Wrecker That's amazing. I assumed jesuit schools to be very conservative but good to know proactive works are being done
This is one of the most interesting forum posts ever. Pretty insightful for a straight person. Lol
@lsatstar, I think being LGBT+ is like any other characteristic. It can be a pro or a con, depending on how you use it. So just be smart and do your research first, but I think it's pretty safe to say for application purpose, it won't hurt you. Remember, one sample is not enough to point to causation, or even correlation. Just a warning, attempted suicide is not a rarity at law school.
If you're concerned, try reaching out to social media or contacts at LGBT+ organizations from the school. Many schools will have a 'contact us' for their LGBT centers that can connect you with someone to talk to.
Any school that advertises their LGBTQ+ stats on its website is definitely one to check the box for. If you think it'll negatively affect your chance of admission somewhere, don't check the box. But honestly, I don't think it will hurt you.
I have been deliberating that, too. It wasnt until I hit 30 that I really dealt with being entirely closeted about my Bi nature. Luckily, I married a very amazing man who accepts me. I remember telling him, just laying everything out from when I knew in the second grade, etc. and he just listened and went, "Okay." I about burst into tears.
I will never be able to fully come out. Ever. Not even most of my friends know. My family never will. And being married (to a man), no one would ever really assume that. In some ways, I wonder if it is a moot point. Does it matter? What happens if I were to check that box? Is it wrong to?
Thanks to the OP for starting this thread. I have been thinking on this lately.
@AudaciousRed that is such a sweet story about your husband. Definitely a keeper
I think if you were to check that box it might honestly be a really good experience because it seems like not ever being able to fully come out is a little upsetting, and checking the box is a small way to acknowledge and validate yourself. I definitely do not think that it's wrong to check the box. You might feel like you haven't "earned" your place as a member of the LGBTQ community, but the fact that you have to wrestle with the decision in your head means that you belong.