RC Struggles

Comments

• Rule No 8 Alum Member

  January 2019 141 karma

  I defnitely think it is possible, but it will take dedication to do it. Are you struggling with timing or accuracy or both?
• Pam Beesly Alum Member

  January 2019 128 karma

  @"Rule No 8" Definitely timing. I'm such a slow reader and I try not to miss essential details + I find myself going back to the passage for tough questions and wasting so much time and therefore I don't usually get to the last passage and am forced to guess for each question.
• 4 Likes

  Rule No 8 Alum Member

  January 2019 edited January 2019 141 karma

  Ok, I would first focus on reading for structure. Work on developing low res summaries and the memory method. I was skeptical at first and I had to do more practice with the memory method than was recomended in the course, but it has really paid off. I was also afraid to miss details which was hurting my score. But, as I've focused more on structure, and referring back to see connections as I'm reading the passage I have been able to answer more questions without looking back. It has taken a lot of time and a lot of practice though. But, what has been happening is I haven't gotten too much faster at reading the passages but I'm picking up on the structure better which allows me to move quicker through questions I know (tone, purpose, MP, and author attitude questions) which gives me the time to look back at the detail questions. Also, by being clearer on the structure I now know exactly where to look back, where as before I was wasting time trying to find the detail again. In addition, I would reccomend trying to figure out which questions eat up your time. They would be contender questions for skipping. It is better to skip one or two questions in each of the first three passages so you get more time to do that last passage. I think eventually you will get better at this so you can have another shot at those questions you skipped as well. I have been redoing the CC with these strategies. I "grade" myself not only on did I pick the right answer and did I have the right reasoning, but did I find the same structure that JY did? Did I have similar low-res summaries? Did I mark the change in the paragraph in the same spot? Also, when I do the questions now, I go as fast as I can and circle the ones I need to look back to find, only after I've looked at and answered all the questions I can without looking back will I relook at the circled ones. I also am keeping track of my timing too. I let a stopwatch run, hit the lap button when I'm done reading the passage, force myself to take 30seconds to revisit the structure, then move to the questions, hit the lap when I'm done with the last question, then hit done after I've gone back and done the circled questions. It allows me to see how much time I wasted looking back at the 1-3 I circled and really emphasizes that I do need to skip while testing. Then I do BR of course and find line sites for all of my answer choices (line sites for why right and if I can line sightes for why the other choices are wrong). I know this sounds like a lot and it may take a couple of weeks to see results but I promise you it has helped me immensely.
  Also, do some drills where you force yourself not to look back. This has helped too.
  I apologize for the long-winded response, but I hope this helps!
• Pam Beesly Alum Member

  January 2019 edited January 2019 128 karma

  @"Rule No 8" Thank you for being so thorough about how you go about RC. Do you think it would be a good idea to do untimed sections first to be able to understand the structure and once I get better at structure identification I can start taking timed sections? Or should I just always do the sections timed?
• Rule No 8 Alum Member

  January 2019 edited January 2019 141 karma

  I would recommend untimed at first for practice. I don't really put myself under timed pressure, I just keep track to see which passages give me trouble. So I let the timer run while I'm doing it but I don't try to do them in X amount of minutes. Also, if you are going to do untimed sections, do sections from PTs 1-35 or sections you have already taken a PT of. Don't use valueable fresh PTs for this step. Always time when doing fresh PTs. I would highly reccommend recording yourself doing RC sections timed when you get to that stage too. PT 4 and 5 have video recordings of JY doing the RC sections. I am saving those to do timed as my next step to compare my video and his during a timed section, without wasting fresh PTs.
• 1 Like

  Pam Beesly Alum Member

  January 2019 128 karma

  @"Rule No 8" Thank you so much! Best of luck in your studies
• 1 Like

  HouseStark07 Member

  January 2019 29 karma

  Hey Pam!

  About 3 months ago, I was feeling the same about RC. I felt super crammed on time and almost felt like I wasn't absorbing very much when I read. I would miss at least 10 questions in the section but lately, I've cut that number in half and it's only getting better!

  I started a 3 week speed reading program and have gone through it twice now, so that has 100% contributed to my reading pace and retention improving, but I have to agree that the memory method and really working on low resolution summaries does wonders. I was skeptical about it at first and really only focused on the lessons for LR and LG, but I have to say the lessons on RC are just as helpful. Practice and really try to train yourself using the memory method the way JY has it set out in the lesson (Duh, but for someone stubborn like me who thought I could get away with skipping that part,I was wrong lol).

  Something else that has been helpful for me is I've started reading on my own quite a bit, just for fun. Obviously going through hours of lessons and blind review on all of these different types of questions is super important and is your bulk of practice, but because we're only human its also exhausting. I like breaking out of the routine toward the end of my day with a good novel, it helps me practice my reading speed and retention without actively thinking about it.

  I know a lot of these suggestions might be common sense, but I hope they help!

  Hang in there and don't forget the most important thing: when you feel tired or burned out, cut yourself some slack and make sure you take a break!
• Pam Beesly Alum Member

  January 2019 128 karma

  @HouseStark07 thank you so much for your advice!
• 2 Likes

  keets993 Alum Member ⭐ ⏰ 🍌

  January 2019 6050 karma

  First of all, love the name! Second of all, if your BR ranges from -5 to -10 there are a couple of issues. Are these questions that you miss on BR overconfidence errors? Meaning you didn't mark them for BR and didn't BR them or did you BR these questions and still miss them? If it's the latter then your BR is likely not thorough enough. For RC, the correct answer choice to every single question can be supported by the passage. I can't stress this enough. It might be one single line at the beginning of the passage that you've forgotten about but it will be supported. And the wrong answer choices will not be supported. I think you should focus on getting your BR score lower (by doing untimed passages as others have suggested) before worrying about timing.
• 1 Like

  Pride Only Hurts Alum Member

  January 2019 2186 karma

  I think anything is possible but do I think it's realistic to go from -10 to -0 by June? No. (I think a more realistic goal is -4). I would be less concerned with perfection and more concerned with the baby steps it takes to get there. Before you can expect a -0 on the real deal you need to be consistently BRing RC sections around -0. For example, my average BR on RC is around -0 or -2 and I typically go around -5 on the timed sections. I'm sure you've read lots of different strategies for how to tackle RC so I wont bother with that because I think it's a little different for everyone. What I found really helpful though, is the idea of "foolproofing" RC. I think RC passages, much like LG are really useful even if you're redoing old passages. Because of how dense the material is, you can read an RC passage and come back to it a couple weeks later without feeling like you remember what the answers were from your first attempt. This helped me figure out my RC weaknesses. Because when you make the same mistake twice it shows you have a hole somewhere in your fundamentals.
• Pam Beesly Alum Member

  January 2019 128 karma

  @keets993 yeah I think thoroughness is definitely something I need more work on. Most of the time when I BR RC I just lose my patience and move on to the next passage when I get stuck on a question.
• 1 Like

  Pam Beesly Alum Member

  January 2019 128 karma

  @"Pride Only Hurts" I'd be okay with -4 on the June test lol. I made a plan to do two RC sections once a week from PT's 1-35 but I'm mostly worried about the fact that I heard from many people that the RC from the modern exams is considerably tougher and I'd be wasting my time practicing with the older tests? What do you think?
• 3 Likes

  paulmv.benthem Alum Member

  January 2019 1032 karma

  @"Pam Beesly" Have you checked out the powerpoint slides from the RC Workshop that was hosted by Daniel S.? (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8rtwtswbq4kspt2/AABiG7z29wB0mXcZO5zE8buTa?dl=0)

  Much like LR and LG, a helpful way of attacking passages is having an understanding of the sorts of moves that RC passages make. If you know what you're looking for in the passage (i.e. what's going to be helpful when answer the questions), you be more aware of them when you're reading the passage. Thus, not only will you have a better recall for the information, but you will also be able to find that information more quickly when returning to the passage. I often return to these slides, and then I try to build on them in my own notes. It's been mighty helpful.
• Pam Beesly Alum Member

  January 2019 128 karma

  @"paulmv.benthem" thanks for the link!
• 1 Like

  Pride Only Hurts Alum Member

  January 2019 2186 karma

  I don't think you'd be wasting your time. But I'd be sure to incorporate some comparative passages in your studies. I don't think you need to be doing fully timed sections just yet. Do a passage timed and then BR it. After your BR it check out JYs explanation. What is he circling, what is he pointing out while going through it. did you miss some referential phrasing? stuff like that. See if you spent too much time on the passage. He typically says if he spent 3 mins on the passage and 4 on the questions for example. If it took JY 7ish minutes and you spent 12 on the passage you know you need to make some changes.
• 4 Likes

  DivineRaze Alum Member

  January 2019 550 karma

  I was getting around 10-12 wrong on RC now I get max 3 wrong under timed conditions. I’m going to tell you what helped me. First of all I stopped trying to rush through the passages I take around 3-4 minutes per passage and go very slow word by word trying to understanding everything and how things tie together. I learned if I take longer on trying to understand the passage clearly I usually fly through the answers. Also, I stopped making notes and now I just circle key words as I’m reading and sometimes box peoples positions in the text. When I read the first paragraph I ask myself what the rest of the passage is going to argue or talk about and I constantly try to figure out the structure of the passage as I’m reading. For example it introduces an idea or topic in the first paragraph, second paragraph it gives a problem, third it gives another problem and fourth it provides an alternative. This helps me remember the passage and I know where to go back to the passage if I have to. What I would suggest is to do what I started to do by taking untimed RC drills of the hardest passages but put a stopwatch that tells you how long you took and try to knock minutes off as you get more comfortable. Doing this will help you better understand what the questions are really asking. Overall this is what helped me the most, I hope this helps you out!!
• 1 Like

  Pam Beesly Alum Member

  January 2019 128 karma

  @DivineRaze thank you so much for your advice!
• 1 Like

  DivineRaze Alum Member

  January 2019 edited January 2019 550 karma

  @"Pam Beesly" I apologize if there are typos and/or if my grammar is problematic I typed it up on my phone lol. I also wanted to add one more thing, when your reading try to get a sense of the position the author is taking on the given passage. This helped me fly through the answers that ask "What would the author most likely agree with", "Authors tone questions", and in general any question involving the author.
• 5 Likes

  Bamboosprout Alum Member

  January 2019 edited January 2019 1694 karma

  I actually recommend going beyond 7sage if RC is your problem. Unfortunately, RC is 7sage's weakest aspect, and the best source of guidance on 7sage for RC is the discussion forums, instead of the curriculum. I recommend either the manhattan prep or LSAT trainer for actually actionable RC strategies. The advice in those books will be similar to what a lot of other have said in the comments above, but will be put into a more helpful form, with questions set to address certain points.
  Unfortunately, RC is also the most difficult, and least "learnable" part of the LSAT. I've had friends who don't know what the LSAT is get -1/-2 on the RC section, and people who have studied for the LSAT for years get - 8/-10. So although you can definitely improve, don't set your goals so high. Just try your best. Perhaps focus your attention on LG and LR instead. I consistently get really good scores while getting -5/-6 on RC by getting near perfect LG and LR sections. I think that's a goal I would recommend to you to pursue.
• 1 Like

  ed.lavado Member

  January 2019 56 karma

  I just wanted to tell you I was in your shoes about three months ago. I was missing a ton on RC. I started using the memory method and I improved by 5 points on average. I then found a blog somewhere that a person suggested underlining key points while reading fast. At first this seems out of wack, but I improve a huge amount and timing was not an issue. My best yet is -4 compared to -12 before trying this method. I would try it for one test and see if you improve, if not go back to your style. I now underline a ton and put symbols for structure. Good luck!!!
• Pam Beesly Alum Member

  January 2019 128 karma

  @Bamboosprout I totally agree. I actually tried to go through the PowerScore Bible for RC and found it so much more informative than 7sage. Luckily LG comes naturally to me and is my best section and I usually average about -0 to -5 so that will be my saving grace for this exam.
• Pam Beesly Alum Member

  January 2019 128 karma

  @ed.lavado I started labeling everything on passages like circling turning points and boxing different viewpoints which helped me a lot!
• Pam Beesly Alum Member

  January 2019 128 karma

  @DivineRaze Thanks for the tip! Oh and one more thing: how do you deal with trap answer choices/really tough questions on RC?
• 1 Like

  DivineRaze Alum Member

  January 2019 550 karma

  @"Pam Beesly" If I have a clear understanding of the passage and know the structure of the passage trap answers do not really get to me. I say this because sometimes it will ask you a question and it will give you two answers that are discussed in the passage for example and 3 that are irrelevant to the question. From those two answers one will address the question and the other attractive one can still be inferred from the passage but wont answer the question. If you really understand the passage you will know what you're looking for. That's usually what I have encountered with traps. Also really pay attention to the wording of the answer choices. Sometimes an answer choice will sound really good then they will throw in a word or a couple of words near the end that makes it the wrong answer. The writers of the LSAT will take advantage of you if you're not careful. Also remember that some questions that ask you "It can be inferred from the passage that which one of the following most strongly supports...etc", the correct answer choice can be worded in ways that are not directly worded the same from the passage. The questions that you feel are really tough as usually time sinks and the authors of the LSAT want you to waste your time reading the question stem and the long answer choices that follow. Often they seem intimidating but as quite simple. I would say do not spend a lot of time on those questions, and go with your gut if you can't figure our the right answer. 1 point lost on that question is better than wasting more time on it and losing 4 other questions because you had to recover for time. Before I read a passage I usually take a deep breath, calm myself, and then start reading. I feel for me that if I'm tense or nervous whatever I read doesn't stick in my head. I hope I answered your question, if you need me to clarify anything at all don't hesitate to ask! Good luck!
• 1 Like

  Bamboosprout Alum Member

  January 2019 edited January 2019 1694 karma

  @"Pam Beesly" said:
  @Bamboosprout I totally agree. I actually tried to go through the PowerScore Bible for RC and found it so much more informative than 7sage. Luckily LG comes naturally to me and is my best section and I usually average about -0 to -5 so that will be my saving grace for this exam.

  I think there is still a lot you can do. If you're not consistently getting -0 or maybe -1 from a reading mistake in LG, then something can be done to easily improve. Try to account for some patterns in your wrong answers, and address the problem. If you can get rid of the 3 or 4 errors in LG, that gives you wiggle room for missing half a passage in RC.
• 1 Like

  Trusttheprocess Member

  January 2019 776 karma

  Hey,

  I am in your boat right now - but I will tell you what has helped me:

  1) working on your foundations: at least 4 questions in a passage are usually structural/functional (main point, purpose of paragraph, line reference question in which an author used this phrase with this function, attitude of an author etc.). What I do when I read a paragraph is the following S - R - W - F approach I sort of made for myself:
  - S: structure of the paragraph
  - Reason/Purpose of the paragraph: basically the summary of it
  - W: why - why is what is being stated related to the MP or the previous paragraph
  - F: future - what is going to come up.

  When I am reading I try to spend a longer time on the passage paragraphs disecting them for their relationship to the main point and why the author is stating this. this a broad understanding of the paragraph - rather than focusing on details. When you have maximized this down - at least the 4 question types that i mentioned above go by flying.

  2) difficult questions - make sure you have a task plan for questions that ask you what was stated in the passage, inference, a person most likely would agree on. Reason being, they generally force you to look back at the passage = killing time.

  this is what i am trying to do right now in my package:

  i. when the question states which one of the following was not stated in the passage: usually 2/3 ACs are very evidently said b/c they are related to the MP of the passage. the ones with detail - i usually choose one glimpse through the passage quickly for it.

  ii. inference vs. most strongly agrees with it: usually when i am doing the passage - i usually stop and write on the sides of the passage VP - which standards for viewpoint, and small subscript of A (authors), 0 (opponents), S (supporter of the theory) etc. this helps me when I have to go through the nitty gritty details of these types of questions. the better you are with the global understanding of the passage - naturally it impacts everything else. usually when I get the my MP wrong - i go 1/7, 2/6 on a passage.

  3) learning how to skip and involving it in your practice: this is tough but i think its important. once you have a process down for every question type and you have attempted it - do your process max twice and move on. trust me it helps. sometimes in RC you have to go back to a passage for your future question and as your skimming a long the question you skipped answer comes up. learn how to skip & listen to the webinar on it.

  I hope this helps. As most folks mentioned above, RC takes a long time to get a hang of - but like LR & LG - once you can enforce your approach really well, every passage should be in the ball park of 8 - 11 mins roughly. If I was you - ask yourself what your approach is? How pat do you have it down? If you feel you maximized your approach and are able to dissect the passage well - maybe its a question type issue. Like in LG & LR - when your approach is solid - naturally you are saving time.

  G'luck!

  PS. Sorry of any typos and grammer mistakes LOL
• 1 Like

  BlindReviewer Alum Member

  January 2019 855 karma

  Love this thread, as RC is also my biggest issue/focus right now. How long do most high scorers tend to spend on the passage? I know this varies, but I've been trying to spend longer on the passage and am just curious to see the ballpark range.
• 3 Likes

  DivineRaze Alum Member

  January 2019 550 karma

  @BlindReviewer I get around 0-3 wrong on RC I spend around 3-4 minutes per passage depending on difficulty.