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New LSAC Licensing Policy Effective [now] April 21st

jdawg113jdawg113 Alum Inactive ⭐
edited April 2015 in General 2654 karma
Hey, curious as to what will be going on with 7sage with these changes... @"Dillon A. Wright" @"J.Y. Ping"
http://lsatblog.blogspot.ca/2015/03/lsac-bans-lsat-preptest-pdf-sales.html
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  • turnercmturnercm Alum Member ⏰ 🍌
    770 karma
    same!
  • Nilesh SNilesh S Alum Inactive ⭐
    3438 karma
    yeah that totally sucks :/
  • WallaceJWallaceJ Member
    edited March 2015 48 karma
    When does 7Sage's license come up for renewal?
  • Nicole_Marie8201Nicole_Marie8201 Alum Member
    11 karma
    Same! Will we still be able to access the problem sets? This just applies to the practice tests correct? Also wondering what will be going on with 7 sage and the changes.
  • ddakjikingddakjiking Inactive ⭐
    2116 karma
    LSAC strikes again.
  • blah170blahblah170blah Alum Inactive ⭐
    edited March 2015 3545 karma
    Hopefully that will be followed by the Return of the LSAT Takers
  • bstew2002bstew2002 Alum Member
    269 karma
    For now, I recommend assuming the worst outcome. Time now: download all PDF files containing LSAC test content that you have purchased under the current applicable distribution license.

    Future PDFs will not be as convenient even if they are available...
  • mpits001mpits001 Alum Member
    edited March 2015 938 karma
    Will they comment? I need to know whether or not I will need to download pretty much everything available just in case. I think this is quite silly. Also, what will this mean for the scored answers and explanations from JY? Will we lose out on that as well?
  • jdawg113jdawg113 Alum Inactive ⭐
    2654 karma
    I don't think they stare at 7sage forums all day, I'm sure we'll get a comment eventually. As far as explanations I don't think theres anything to worry about really since they are in a video that can't be downloaded or anything. besides PT's it may affect drill sets but not sure if LSAC has that included within their restrictions (if I remember correctly they said PT's most the time and didn't mention drill packets and such in the article so who knows)
  • mpits001mpits001 Alum Member
    edited March 2015 938 karma
    @jdawg113 I understand. I have all the PTs Downloaded anyway, even before hearing about this. As long as the answers are in video form and are not forced to be taken down, I can still make the most of them hopefully. I need to buy 2 more PTs now, though. :(

    We shouldn't jump to any extremes, I know, but it would be calming to know what the POA is from J.Y. and co!
  • J.Y. PingJ.Y. Ping Administrator Instructor
    14225 karma
    Hey guys, we're talking to the LSAC about this. Our license expires on April 23rd. Whatever new deal we work out with the LSAC will begin on April 24th.

    I believe their major motivation for this policy change is to deter piracy. I predict that ironically, it's going to have precisely the opposite effect.

    At this point, it seems like we will not be allowed to offer PDFs anymore. I'm trying to convince LSAC to change their position (for their benefit, for yours, and for ours), but I think the odds of that happening is very low.
  • mpits001mpits001 Alum Member
    edited March 2015 938 karma
    @"J.Y. Ping"

    What are the possible outcomes for 7Sage as a prep-test site and what the operations heading forward might be? I'm sure you don't have firm grasp as well, mostly because LSAC hasn't elaborated much, but will it be the end of 7Sage? Or closer to what I said in a separate thread? Also, what if we alrady have all the PTs downloaded?

    http://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/comment/13457
  • olennkkaolennkka Alum Member
    48 karma
    So just to be clear, our current access to PT PDFs will remain unchanged until April 24th right? I won't be able to download them until March 30th....
  • Nilesh SNilesh S Alum Inactive ⭐
    3438 karma
    yeah they will... this only goes into effect once the licence expires
  • smartjoshua90smartjoshua90 Alum Member
    edited March 2015 128 karma
    Before deciding to freak out because of this new policy, I wanted to share a few reasons to remain calm and positive about the change. Purely my own opinion, so feel free to criticize, correct, add or agree with me.

    First of all, those of us who are enrolled in 7sage now and anytime before the licence expiration date ends have all the access to the PDFs until then, so there is not much for us to worry about; just download them all (wait, don't tell me you were going to let your subscription expire without having downloaded all the PDFs). If anything, I feel bad for the future students for the inconvinience caused by this change.

    Secondly, the main reason I (and I suspect many other students) am enrolled in the 7sage course is not because of the PDF files they are offering, but for its lessons as well as the detailed explanations (in addition to a supportive community and the excellent free analytics tool).

    While I do not know how 7sage's pricing model works, I suspect that 7sage's primary source of revenue was from selling PDFs (remember those $7 pdfs + explanations offers? those were basically freebees. sigh... those were the days...). Sure, 7sage will have to work on new pricing and stuff, but I am certain that it won't be the "end" of 7sage or other LSAT online courses out there. If anything, print/book-PTs might even encourage future students to more actively seek out additional resources, like 7sage. That leads me to my next point.

    7sage is already so cheap and affordable compared to any other online resources (If you know a more affordable website with equal or better quality, please let me know. Sorry, 7sage). Without the price of PDFs included in the course bundles, 7sage will seem even more affordable to the future students, and more people might sign up as a result. (As a personal anecdote, when I first discovered 7sage, I was hesistant to sign up, only because I already had all the PTs. I'm glad I signed up anyhoo.)

    Of course, some may make better and more valid arguments about how this might harm 7sage and other online prep services. But I have faith in 7sage, and I believe that it is the quality of the lessons/explanations and the lively forums that keeps us wanting to come back for more, not the sales of PDFs.

    I do think this policy is unnecessary and, frankly, stupid. But the all-mighty LSAC has spoken. For now, let's all hope for the best.
  • jdawg113jdawg113 Alum Inactive ⭐
    edited March 2015 2654 karma
    @"J.Y. Ping" I totally agree and think this will end up causing a huge pdf piracy blow out. With so many pdfs already out there, taking them out is just going to cause people to just throw their pdfs out onto torrent sites and such causing LSAC to lose more chances at $ then they currently are. Curious as to what they would/have say to that... "umm it won't happen, people won't illegally download our property"

    anyways curious as to what will happen if LSAC doesn't allow an exception/change in their current plans. I mean obviously there are alternatives, inconvenient ones. I know Velocity has pdfs of all their stuff too but also has hard copies of everything so I would guess they would just be using strictly the hard copies (and/or incorporate a system that meets new regulations) so is that similar to what would happen here? Of course it would be a bit more tricky since its not already set up like theirs are but either way I think this is going to cause a hectic time period


    I also wonder if LSAC realizes you could print the "One allowed copy" and scan it turning it into an unlimited PDF
  • mpits001mpits001 Alum Member
    edited March 2015 938 karma
    It's kind of like DRMs. Every company that has implemented DRM encoded files has had a decline in sales. In my opinion it will encourage a lot of people to release all of the current PDFs, and whatever file they change the tests to will be crackable by whatever hacktivist that is up to the challenge. I just don't want to lose my J.Y. video explanations. As long as we have those, then it shouldn't affect current 7Sage subscribers who save all the PDFs. Also, I saved all of the Logic Game Bundle pack.
  • jdawg113jdawg113 Alum Inactive ⭐
    2654 karma
    well in the article it says how DRM is an option... I mean there was a time b4 pdfs so
  • JustinaJJustinaJ Alum Member
    223 karma
    I definitely agree with JY. They are going to have a big issue with piracy from this.. PDF's are way more convenient. I am fine with booklets as well but the time it takes to ship them and deliver.. its way easier to pay. download. prep.
  • mpits001mpits001 Alum Member
    938 karma
    @jdawg113 I know, I was just adding to the "this will have the opposite effect."
  • LawAndDisorderLawAndDisorder Member
    edited March 2015 194 karma
    Hey guys, Im just starting to look into my lsat prep and this totally freaked me out! What exactly does this mean? Also If I were to buy the course before the lisence expires could I download and print all the exams? Or should I wait for possible price changes if 7sage can no longer offer the prep tests :( ?
  • nicole.hopkinsnicole.hopkins Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    7965 karma
    @tristanschmoor I'm planning to wait for the 7sage price to come down (I own all the 10 Actual books plus the Cambridge PDFs 39-51). The reason I have not gotten 7sage yet is because I own all of the tests and drilling materials that come with it (wish they had a "Course only" option). My recommendation would be to buy the Cambridge 39-51 off their site since those are otherwise out of print (do this before the 23rd, should run you about $80 or $90). And then go and get good used copies of all of the 10 Actual books off of Amazon (even if they're written in in pencil, buy a big eraser). No huge rush on those since they're not affected by the new policy. Seriously, I paid $4 for a copy of the second Actual book and it had never been thumbed through before. The other one I got had pencil markings so I erased.

    I have invested in several pink erasers (.99 for 3 large at Target ... ) and use them all the time (after every drill and/or PT I take in my books). Takes a little elbow grease but this will continue to be a viable option once the PDFs are offline.
  • lsatonmymindlsatonmymind Alum Member
    135 karma
    Will this affect the video explanations for preptests?
  • mpits001mpits001 Alum Member
    938 karma
    @target180 with what we know so far with LSAC it shouldn't, but we don't know what else they plan on doing. So I'm sure J.Y. is figuring it out for us and he'll let us know.
  • Jonathan WangJonathan Wang Yearly Sage ⭐
    6874 karma
    Though I obviously don't speak for JY and Alan re: their pricing structure, I really don't see how the course would get much cheaper than it already is. Even the cheapest tier has 1200+ question explanations, and if you see the actual question displayed on your screen (which happens throughout the course in large quantities, as you cannot teach adequately without reference to questions), 7Sage is paying a licensing fee to the LSAC. Adding in the theory lessons, costs of running a website, and various other business-related expenses, and some quick back-of-the-napkin math tells me that frankly he should be charging more than he is even now, and it'd still be worth every penny. But from what I know about him, he doesn't because he wants the course to stay as accessible as possible. All the way back to our days working on PreProBono together, that's been his goal.

    I don't see how LSAC not letting people sell full-length PDFs would change much in that equation. It's not like you're being charged once for the test and again for the individual questions.
  • bobaliciousbobalicious Member Sage
    edited March 2015 127 karma
    As far back as 2011 research has shown that Netflix dramatically reduces piracy. Why? It's simple. If people have convenient and affordable access to legal content, they don't pirate. Conversely, if people don't have convenient and affordable access to legal content, they do pirate. If we want something, we'll find a way to get it.

    Our analogue of Netflix is 7Sage (or LSAT Blog), offering convenient and affordable access to legal content. If LSAC takes this away from us, what do they think we're going do? "You know what it really was way too damn convenient to print out my PTs. I want inconvenience in my life."

    No. Actually, even though I'm done with the LSAT, I might just pirate some PTs out of spite / to increase the number of seeds. Just kidding @"Dillon A. Wright", that would be un-sagely of me to do.

    You'd think a company that places such a high value on logic (I'm talking about the LSAC) would understand the incredibly simple logic behind this argument (also know as reality). But likely the people who write the questions are not the people who run the company.
  • stepharizonastepharizona Alum Member
    3197 karma
    I think this just means you should have a fire sale on the pdfs @J.Y.Ping & @"Dillon A. Wright"
  • mpits001mpits001 Alum Member
    938 karma
    I second what @stepharizona said :P... I'm missing 2 PTs!
  • nikkiiumnikkiium Alum Member
    edited March 2015 4 karma
    is it advised to download/print al PTs from 7sage before the licensing expires?
    @kunzzzzz
  • jdawg113jdawg113 Alum Inactive ⭐
    edited March 2015 2654 karma
    I would say so, maybe not print (thats a lot for all at once) but download ya
  • GSU HopefulGSU Hopeful Core ⭐
    1644 karma
    Would there be any case to go ahead and download all the problem sets too? I know the main cause for concern in this is the PT PDfs, but aren't the problem sets derivatives of PT 1-35?
  • mpits001mpits001 Alum Member
    938 karma
    @"GSU Hopeful" I'm not sure, i would assume that since they are picked apart and reassembled in a different order they would be safe, but I think it would be cool to get some confirmation about it.
  • emli1000emli1000 Alum Member Inactive ⭐
    3462 karma
    I'm gone for a few days and I come back to this? What is life! LOL
  • carlweimercarlweimer Alum Member
    26 karma
    Fire Sale!! All content must go! The crowd demands it!
  • carlweimercarlweimer Alum Member
    26 karma
    I would pay $100 for full unlock of all legacy content @J.Y.Ping & @Dillon A. Wright
  • emli1000emli1000 Alum Member Inactive ⭐
    3462 karma
    @carlweimer I don't think you can download PTs right now since it wasn't working earlier =/
  • bobaliciousbobalicious Member Sage
    127 karma
    @emli1000 PT downloads work fine for me. If it doesn't work for you, let @"Dillon A. Wright" know.

    @carlweimer If your objective is to obtain as many PDFs of the PTs, then now's the time to get the Ultimate course.
  • baconandbutterbaconandbutter Member
    55 karma
    Will the PDFs within the questions disappear as well? Such as Grouping Games Homework Set 2 - or will those remain intact?
  • shine.on.meshine.on.me Alum Member
    463 karma
    @baconandbutter I would think so but I'm not sure. I saved all the sets to my flash drive to be safe.
  • MaritzaaMaritzaa Alum Member
    368 karma
    What is the update with this?
  • inactiveinactive Alum Member
    edited April 2015 12637 karma
    No update yet. Sorry. We're still communicating with LSAC over this issue, so I don't have much information for you right now. Sorry about that! As far as we know, the videos should be unaffected, but we're still trying to get them to allow the PDFs to remain. I ask for your understanding and patience while we figure things out.
  • J.Y. PingJ.Y. Ping Administrator Instructor
    14225 karma
    Bad news: on April 21st we will remove all PDFs containing LSAC licensed content to compile with LSAC's new policy.

    To be clear, all PDFs containing any LSAT questions - LSAT PrepTests and Problem Sets - will be removed. Any PDFs without LSAT questions will still be available.

    Please download all PDFs in your course that you want to use before they disappear on April 21. This is your last chance to get them.

    I know this is a pain in the ass and I'm sorry.

    Moving forward, 7Sagers must obtain PrepTests some other way. We recommend Amazon.
  • kvasquez0903kvasquez0903 Member
    17 karma
    We will still have access to the videos, etc? Or should we also download answers?
  • ValBerroaValBerroa Alum Member
    77 karma
    How about the answer explation for the problem sets?
  • kvasquez0903kvasquez0903 Member
    17 karma
    Will you also still keep the blind review, choices form? So that we could calculate our test scores in the future?
  • abovewater7abovewater7 Alum Member
    66 karma
    How about the PDFs (questions from real LSAT tests) which relate to your lectures? Will that be removed as well?
  • Nilesh SNilesh S Alum Inactive ⭐
    3438 karma
    @abovewater7 it looks like all material containing LSAT questions will be removed from the site
  • emli1000emli1000 Alum Member Inactive ⭐
    3462 karma
    @abovewater7 I'm guessing that if it's a PDF it will be taken down. So save everything to be on the safe side.
  • jdawg113jdawg113 Alum Inactive ⭐
    2654 karma
    "all PDFs containing any LSAT questions" If you can download it, and it has a real LSAT question then it will be removed.
  • KS LSAT PrepKS LSAT Prep Member
    26 karma
    I just purchased 7sage this week and now I am a little concerned. Do I have to print out ALL the problem set questions at the end of each section as well as ALL practice tests?? Or else I will lose that material? Even though I just paid for it?

    I just want to make sure I am clear so I don't lose any material that I just purchased…
This discussion has been closed.