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Related Discussions
Who else is thinking about submitting additional apps??
VerdantZephyr
Member ⭐
3 straight rejections and I just spent several hours looking over law schools that didn't quite make the cut for applications the first time.
Definitely feel like I may have submitted a few apps to the wrong schools. I also know that this whole exercise is the result of getting nothing but rejections thus far.
Anyone else in this boat?
That extra scholarship negotiation school and the extreme reach that sent me an unsolicited fee waiver seem like foolish decisions in the face of schools that have decent programs but we're pushed aside.
Related note, has anyone actually been to Davis, CA? Is it rural or suburban? Chill small town, government center suburb or tech town?
- Are you stress applying/second guessing?21 votes
- I'm five applications deep.23.81%
- Thinking about it a lot.38.10%
- No. I did it right the first time.38.10%
Comments
I haven’t heard back from many schools I refresh my emails everyday. I applied in February. When did you apply and when did you hear back ?
seems a bit risky to apply in March - - have you considered waiting until the cycle start in the fall? Do you think you'd have a better shot at the start of a cycle v. the end of a cycle with your stats? That really sucks about the rejects
@VerdantZephyr I grew up in Southern California went to UC Davis for undergraduate. It was a great experience and very different from urban vibe. The campus was in a small college town. Davis is about half hour away from Sacramento,CA. Sacramento is definitely government center and heart of state capital of CA.
@lalalala I applied around the holidays. The first app went out a bit before the offices would have gone on break and my main targets went out around Christmas/New Years. I submitted a few in mid-January. I heard back from BU about a month after I submitted, so that was clearly a first round rejection. Georgetown, which I wish I hadn't wasted the 45 bucks on since it was just a scholarship negotiation school, rejected me last Friday. Same with Michigan, which was in my top three. I wouldn't expect any good news for at least a month after submitting, maybe 6 weeks, unless you are a slam dunk above all medians. This year no news is good news is generally true especially for super-splitters.
@love2learn I would apply this week as all my materials are ready to go. It is just a matter of do I think that A.) the chance is worth the money given that I have to pay for a transcontinental move and B.) would I rather go to one of these schools this year than wait. I didn't apply to any safety schools in the first place because I am comfortable waiting, at least in theory. But the reality of immigrating back to the US without a job or a plan if law school doesn't work out in the midst of a pandemic is creeping in. I still have 3 schools to hear back from that I am really excited about, but I am just flat out not going without enough scholarship support. I am not so concerned that I won't get in anywhere but that in a cycle full of high LSAT scores my 174 and grad school 3.8high won't wow scholarship committees given my abysmal undergrad GPA. The advice at the start of the cycle I got from someone who once upon a time worked in admissions was that schools would love the graduate degree and work experience enough to overlook the undergrad GPA given my LSAT numbers. But, given that schools have more 170+ LSATs than they can admit this year passing out a scholarship to someone that isn't going to raise both medians seems like a really long shot. Passing out a full ride seems optimistic to the point of lunacy, softs or not.
@Confidence123 Thanks, that helps a lot and sounds like a nice place. I have had a number of brushes with LA and really don't like it at all. LA is also the only part of CA I have spent any time in, so I tend to be really leery of anything that might resemble it. I have heard several times though that San Diego and to a lesser extent Northern California might suit me. UC Davis is one of three schools I am thinking about applying to, though I am not sure dropping from my lower T14 goals to #38 instead of waiting a year makes sense.
You are not alone. I freaked out and threw a last minute application at UCI a day or two ago and thinking about a couple more, but may just hold out and let it go since it’s pretty late in the cycle.
this cycle is unpredictable to say the least and I still have about 8 schools to hear back from (well 9 after that last minute app) and it’s been silence so far. I’m low key getting worried since deposits are coming up for the ones I did get into. Hope we get some closure and comfort soon!
As for Davis, it’s definitely more of a small college town like the commenter above stated. It’s not too urban or rural but definitely not like a booming city. It’s great if you prefer a more quiet and peaceful environment vs. bustling city.
Also, on a more off topic note, I went to a school in LA for undergrad and the culture was not it for me but I managed and still enjoyed most of my time there. If you’re the same or had similar vibes, I can see why people would say NorCal is the place in CA for you. I’m from the Bay and SoCal does not even come close to the bay in terms of culture and environment (I’m biased though haha). The only things I enjoyed in LA were the food and the plethora of places to visit and enjoy with friends and family.
@karko2525 I do not want to live in LA because of both the CoL and the culture, but UCI has a great program that makes me think of applying there as well. Wish I hadn't wasted that app on Georgetown.
@VerdantZephyr Did you apply to BU's full-scholarship program or their regular program?
Hearing that BU rejected a 174 makes me want to reconsider my options..
This thread wasn't really supposed to be about me, but more a light-hearted joke about the waiting game anxiety/for people to share their own stress. I invite you all to do that.
@chickenislove first of, great username. I'm eating chicken right now. Secondly, I wouldn't stress. I am an extreme splitter and my undergrad GPA was sub 2.6 before LSAC got ahold of it. I also got straight A's for the entirety of grad school, but it seems schools don't care about that since it doesn't play into their rankings. BU is known to be a school that isn't splitter friendly but I hoped my LSAT and grad school grades might make a difference compared to the average splitter. Jokes on me, schools are inundated with high LSAT scores this year. Don't give up hope prematurely. I applied regular decision but applied for a public interest scholarship.
@VerdantZephyr Got it. Thank you for sharing.
I will also be a super-splitter like you (actually also have a Master's with 3.8+ too..)
wow, still can't believe it..
I guess cycles are unpredictable for the splitters.
Good luck to you, as well!
@VerdantZephyr I think you would enjoy the NorCal culture tbh it's so much more laid back and chill than the stuck up energy I felt in 85% of LA lol (can you tell my time there killed me lol jk but not really). so if you're considering Davis, I guess that's a pro! I would say visit first but lol the pandemic
Yes! I originally did not apply to UCI because they're still a relatively new law school so I was worried about the lack of alumni connections and whether the name would carry through when I look for jobs. But I must say I'm decently surprised by their growing job employment growth and it seems theyre doing pretty well for a newer law school. It seems like a good fit as well since CA is where I envision myself long term. However, I will say that if you're considering UCI, Might be worth reading up on their admin during the pandemic. I read a concerning post on Reddit and it seems kinda crappy how they're treating OCIs and stuff during this time. I don't know how true it is and I can't seem to find more information but worth mentioning if you are seriously considering applying. As for GULC, I don't think you should feel bad. From what I remember in your other posts, you have a stellar LSAT score and it makes sense why you would apply. I think this cycle caught a lot of us by surprise and many outcomes that we predicted for ourselves shattered. If it's any consolation at all, I got WL at two schools that I was supposed to have 90% chance at and radio silence from another that had the same percentage. It's just really tough with the pandemic, increase in apps, and lesser number of seats at certain schools due to past deferrals. Overall, don't press yourself too much on the R's. I'm sure you'll end up at a great law school ! What is meant to be, will be. Keep at it!
@karko2525 Thanks, I will be okay in the end if I have to wait a year. I hope you're hanging in there as well. The best thing to do is have a bit of humor where we can about it I think. I just picked the wrong year to start the application process.
@karko2525 thanks! I'm barely hanging in there if I'm being honest. I'm just ready for this bloody cycle to be over. I feel the same way though and I wish I was ready last cycle but it is what it is. I still have hope (very little but it's there) for a miracle of some sort but I know deep down it all works out in the end. Comedic relief is a necessity forsure so I'm just binging Netflix when my mind wanders too far. Either way, good luck on any late minute apps and for the rest of your decisions!
Thanks, I got an interest survey from one of my secondary/tertiary choices. Not bad news is good news, and I'll take an "are you still interested?" inquiry at this point.
Would it be fair to assume that since there is an abundance of high LSAT scores, people whose scores are not high have a fair chance of getting in?
Submitted to five more than I thought I would for Feb deadline.
This is a great point. My friend (admitted to YLS) thought the same thing. If they have that many more high scores, they might be willing to take some more unorthodox candidates at the other end of the median.
I would think most confidently that the first spots are going to go to those candidates that have high LSATs and high GPAs. Presumably, if the pool of high LSATs is higher this year than there are both extra splitter applicants and extra applicants above both medians. So that second group will be larger than normal and eat up more spaces, if schools maintain equal class sizes, than usual. However, I would also think that being a reverse splitter, (above median GPA and below median LSAT) is better this year than in other years.
In a typical year being a reverse splitter is less advantageous than being a splitter because it's more common for an applicant to have an above median GPA than above median LSAT. I don't know how much the high LSATs have changed that. Maybe it's equally dis/advantageous to be a splitter or reverse splitter this year, maybe it's better to be a reverse splitter, or maybe both are going to fare more poorly than usual with the increase in both applications and scores. I do feel fairly confident than splitters are not advantaged this cycle in comparison to past cycles, but that's as far as I'll take my assumptions.
These are all very interesting comments. I spoke with a T-20 director of admissions and they observed that applicants who took the old/original LSAT and also the LSAT flex see in the range of 5 to 7 points higher on their LSAT flex scores, and that in line with all of the above comments there are an extraordinary number of applicants with 170+ LSAT scores. Their comments implied they expect most programs to target raising their medians by a point this year given the higher scores.
@VerdantZephyr I'm at UCD now for undergrad. I would've applied to their program this cycle, but I'm ready to leave the area for a while and experience something new. For what its worth, I'm going to submit my first app in late April. Its unconventional, but I'm an unconventional person. Apply to a few more schools. Even if you decide to apply again the following cycle, it still feels good to get some acceptance letters. Between the strong LSAT score, and your solid grad school performance, you've earned that satisfaction.
As far as UCD goes...
I haven't found it to be the most social environment. Students seem pretty uncomfortable conversing with new people. As a transfer, I felt that most students were only interested in chatting with pre-existing contacts they had established early on. The student body has sort of a dorky vibe. Its really endearing. This isn't a criticism at all, it makes Davis "Davis." With that said, its not a competitive environment in the way that Cal or UCLA are. UCD is very relaxed. I have heard that the law program is an extension of my experience as an undergrad; not extremely social and fairly laid back. The campus is absolutely beautiful. The surrounding area is very rural, and AG is the primary economic driver in Yolo county. The best thing about Nor Cal is its proximity to so many types of outdoor terrain. Snowboarding, surfing, rock-climbing, back-packing, fly-fishing, wake-boarding, horseback riding, kayaking, rafting, etc. You can do it all here. Its very unique. Few regions offer this level of diversity. I've been considering that as I get ready to send out apps. Best of luck!
This post really hit home for me. Every day feels like a toss up between submitting more apps and then actually withdrawing the apps I have out there and waiting until next year. I am conflicted about waiting another year because I have been studying for a long time and already missed a cycle. I am also not young and am ready to go. I also would have only one more retake left. But on the other hand I think I have finally figured out why I choke/underperform on test day and it doesn't sit right with me that my "best" LSAT score is still more than 5 points below my PT average.
I am also a splitter, though my LSAT is not as good as yours. I submitted two apps the last couple of days of January and all the other apps throughout February. The first one I heard back from was University of Georgia, with HTE email which is understandable but sad. Second one, same day, was ASU and I was accepted with about 1/2 scholarship. Considering my horrible GPA I am thrilled to be accepted to be a T25 with scholarship but financial reality of still paying that other half and living expenses as a single Mom has me scared to death. Their school I heard back from which was a " safety" I applied to because they gave me waivers, waitlisted me and my anxiety has been over the top since. I am seriously considering a June retake at this point- just trying to figure out if that could help me this cycle or I really need to wait until next. Mike Spivey said on his podcast that in his 25 years o admissions he has never seen anything like this cycle and then I see posts like yours and feel doomed.
As far as Davis goes, I also applied there. I am from CA, been to Davis many times. My brother is currently in undergrad there. I love Davis! It is a bike town- the campus is so big people typically ride their bikes around campus and then often extend that lifestyle to the point where a lot of people just bike where they go or get an uber. But when people say small town they may have you picturing somewhere where your options are limited and they are far from that in Davis! Davis has excellent restaurants- many ethnic or fusion type of options. There is a train station and Davis is really only an hour or two away from everything from the Bay Area to snow. I had some of the same hesitations about the #38 ranking, but I can tell you that UC Davis really does have a prestigious name here in CA. I would be happy to answer any questions you have about Davis. Also, if you haven't applied there- consider applying to ASU. With your LSAT I think you would get a good size scholarship.
@Martianman If they are only targeting raising their medians by one point I will be very happy and maybe a little surprised. At least that would be good news for me next year since I can go into the June take knowing that I am still above the 75th at my targets.
@Lizardking-1 Thanks, that actually sounds wonderful and perfect for me. My undergrad was at a similar kind of place, though actually much smaller and more rural/nature-y and I really liked it. Urban areas were just a few hour drive away.
@FindingSage Hey, good to hear from you again. Thanks, that is definitely where I am at. I am moving back to the states from overseas regardless and really nervous about finding decent work in the pandemic/post-pandemic world. ESL teachers don't have the same employment options in the US as abroad and I will hate not having access to medical care. I took a pretty low paying job here last year to be near friends and so that my partner could take the awesome sounding job in the same city so the savings are tapped out after applications and such. Really nervous about affording all the relocation expenses and still being able to pay the ridiculous cost of utilities/medical care/insurance. Fortunately the partner is okay moving to basically anywhere that isn't Philly (sorry Penn) so I have flexibility at least. Scholarships are a must requirement and I just don't think they will happen where I want them to. The Why X essays ended up solidifying 4 lower T-14 schools and one just outside as my top choices, and going anywhere else would be hard after falling in love with their programs.
I feel you on the test day thing. I have never had test anxiety before, tests were how I got through undergrad in the first place cause I have always done well under that kind of pressure but it really got to me my first take. I can't complain about the score, it was still fantastic, but I hit outside my really consistent 174-177 range. When I retook I was certain I did a lot better, it felt like one of the easiest LSATs I had ever taken, but I still hit at the bottom of that range. It was at least easier to accept than the first though. Regardless of what your goal score is or where you want to go not meeting it sucks. You feel let down and like you failed yourself even though you put all the work in and did things right.
I would love to do ASU, they would be a great fit scholarship/splitter wise and I like Arizona pretty well, but I decided I wanted to commit to international human rights law pretty early in the process. They have basically nothing in that field as much as I wish they did. Maybe I will give Davis a try, but I also don't want to stay on the West Coast since it will probably mean LA, and don't know how employable I would be nationally with that degree. They've definitely blown up my inbox though.
If we do end up waiting a cycle we should have better options next year at least, but a half scholarship isn't a bad situation to be in. I think I will take the year to try and get a job either with a refugee oriented organization or in a law firm to solidify that this is the direction I want to take my life in and help me with applications next year.
@FindingSage, can you tell me what your LSAT was? I'm thinking of applying to ASU. I'm aware of their medians and everything, but I'm just curious to hear from someone that was accepted.
@VerdantZephyr, Good to hear from you as well, it’s been awhile! Sorry to hear about your options and feeling pressure because of employment. I have the opposite issue on employment and have a stable job and make relatively good money but my heart is not there. Like you I know where I want to go in law ( criminal law/ public policy) and to give up a good job I don’t want to do so for just any job.
Underperforming on the LSAT is really weighing on me and I am strongly considering a June retake and maybe even applying next cycle. I skated by in all my undergrad by being a good test taker but the LSAT experience has been totally the opposite. I am going to work with my doctor and also found an opportunity to take proctored practice tests on the weekends so I believe I can address the issue. I will message you directly later.
@Lizardking-1- My highest LSAT at this point is a 166 but my undergrad GPA is garbage. I do however have about 15 years of work experience, first generation ect. ASU is an awesome school and I am grateful for both the acceptance and scholarship but it is still a lot of money and living expenses. Northwestern is my dream and I believe that if I can score in my range I could at least be a competitive applicant. Right now I am feeling like withdrawing apps.