What's the better strategy for SA/PSA?

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• 1 Like

  whatsWaynedoing Member

  April 2021 83 karma

  I'm no 170s scorer but personally I would go for 1 when the stimulus is convoluted just to ensure I don't miss anything while trust my intuition when the conditional chain is short/the missing link is obvious
• Lime Green Dot Member ⭐

  April 2021 1384 karma

  Thank you for your input, @whatsWaynedoing ! Agree that if there is a long chain of reasoning, I'll also start out w/ a diagram too.

  If you don't mind my asking (and if you've taken this PT), would you have gone w/ method 1 or 2 for PT64.S3.Q26 (LR2)? Here's a question link: https://7sage.com/lsat_explanations/lsat-64-section-3-question-26/

  Happy studies!
• 2 Likes

  whatsWaynedoing Member

  April 2021 83 karma

  @"Lime Green Dot" said:
  Thank you for your input, @whatsWaynedoing ! Agree that if there is a long chain of reasoning, I'll also start out w/ a diagram too.

  If you don't mind my asking (and if you've taken this PT), would you have gone w/ method 1 or 2 for PT64.S3.Q26 (LR2)? Here's a question link: https://7sage.com/lsat_explanations/lsat-64-section-3-question-26/

  Happy studies!

  I would not diagram on this one because I think the here trap is that the conditional rule triggers when consumers do not "expect" the benefit outweigh the cost&difficulty. If I diagram this, chances are I will short the expect into some letters and it is likely for me to ignore this information, thus choosing C instead of E. Therefore, I would just go with my intuition on this one.
• 1 Like

  TakingOnTheBeast-1 Member

  April 2021 219 karma

  If you listen to the podcast one of the girls does talk about this - I can't remember if it is #38 with Sami or #39 with Rochisha but what stuck with me about her comments is that in the real test under timed conditions you may not be able to trust your instinct. Other factors like stress may cause brain fog/paralysis (she didn't say it exactly like this but similar) and so she learned to rely on full out form, the mechanics. I'm going back through LR to do this too. I may be leaning on instinct too much, and that may be opening me up to a failure around the corner.
• 3 Likes

  Jonathan Wang Yearly Sage ⭐

  April 2021 6874 karma

  Because your intuition and your mechanics are not wholly distinct entities, the real answer is probably more along the lines of "you have to do both", not picking one or the other.

  Of course your intuition kicks in faster (that's sort of the point of intuition, isn't it?), but remember that your intuition rests on your mechanics. If you can intuit something that you can't flesh out quickly when pressed, that means you don't understand it well enough to confidently select an answer choice. Whether/how consistently you can get away with that little bit of 'fudging' is another issue entirely - that just has to do with how closely your intuition lines up with the actual mechanics. Everyone's balance on that front is a bit different so you just have to look to your results and your analysis to determine what the right balance is for you. Josh Aldy's ( @"Cant Get Right") confidence drill is very useful here to help you calibrate your acceptable level of risk vs reward.

  Bigger picture, however, you must absolutely be able to do #1 every single time, regardless of how fully you end up fleshing it out in practice. For example, when Wayne (above) says that he's worried he will drop the 'expect' piece and that's why he'd go intuitive, that's not a question of strategy - that's a question of poor diagramming. If you feel like you are susceptible to those kinds of mistakes, you have to fix the problem, not just sidestep it and hope it doesn't bite you.
• Lime Green Dot Member ⭐

  May 2021 edited May 2021 1384 karma

  Thanks everyone so much for your insights! I truly appreciate them.

  Yeah, deep down I think I knew I just wanted to be assured to "do what works for you" and happily bounce along to my next PT... Even if I can't necessarily slap a label on "group 3 indicators," etc., I could definitely make my conditional lawgic skills much more solid.

  @whatsWaynedoing as might be expected, I also went with intuition and got it correct focusing on making sure the subject and predicate matched and linking it up to the ether of one of the premises. Had to leave 64.3.26 behind for about a week. I could diagram bits and pieces, but was at a loss of how to connect it all. Thanks for sharing your approach!

  @TakingOnTheBeast , I must re-listen! I did recently hear @"Habeas Porpoise" 's and @Sami 's podcast episodes (btw these 7Sage interviews are my favorite LSAT-related podcasts! can't wait to see who's next!!). I fooled myself into thinking that instinct comes out when autopilot kicks in, but I can see where nerves and all sorts of other factors could warp the way we normally process things. Better to face our demons now, but sometimes it's hard to pick out which demons to confront first amiright? These are the fundamentals though, so I guess we can't go too wrong w/ starting here. Aside: Loved your "not yet" (but one day!) snippet at the courthouse. Moments like these

  @"Jonathan Wang" I feel like a 7Sage celeb just autographed my post!! But really, thank you, I needed to see this philosophy verbalized: "you have to do both" b/c "intuition rests on your mechanics."

  It's hard to know sometimes whether it's inadequate skills so much as it is a really hard question like the one I referenced. I can admit that I often conflate intuition w/ understanding, and it's probably this kind of arrogance that will eventually catch up with me.

  I still don't know if 64.3.26 is best diagrammed or approached with intuition at the fore, mechanics at ready--sometimes I feel P over diagram, and maybe I'm being too harsh, but it's almost like they're hesitant to call up intuition as a player in the arena?? But I for sure see your point about their interconnectedness and which one ought to underlie the other, especially in practice. Will try & give this another shot w/ #26 and going fwd!
• 6 Likes

  Jonathan Wang Yearly Sage ⭐

  May 2021 edited May 2021 6874 karma

  Sorry in advance for the essay; I started typing and kinda just kept going. This is what you get when the Sharks are losing miserably and thus failing to capture my attention, leaving me with nothing better to do on a Friday night.

  ==

  If there is one thing I have learned in my time with this test, it is this: It's always inadequate skills. On September 30 of this year, it will be exactly 15 years since I took the LSAT (September 2006, better known these days as either PT 50 or "that f-ing riddled basins passage", depending on where you are in your studies). I have spent the last decade of my life teaching the test full time. After all this time, I am still not capable of processing the test at the level of pure intuition, and I suspect I won't ever be able to - at least until they invent some way to inject this stuff directly into my bloodstream or something.

  I am fully aware that I now sit in a privileged position where I don't have to worry about the looming doom of an impending test date or the pressure to perform on a test of this import, and therefore have the luxury to wax poetic about these things. But the point remains - I think studying gets much easier once you just accept that you aren't ever going to be perfect, and you instead focus your attention on recognizing and methodically targeting your weaknesses in order to mitigate their effect as much as possible.

  For what it's worth, I would diagram 64.3.26 if I faced it today - if not the whole thing, at least the 'unless' statement. I would do that primarily to settle the potential ambiguity that comes from the double negative of the conditional indicator 'unless' paired with the negative phrase 'it is rational not to acquire'. I recognize that as a potential sticking point, and I don't want to do something dumb, so I'll take the extra couple seconds to be sure.

  I will admit that once upon a time, in my more time-crunched student days, I probably would not have diagrammed - I'd figure that I got the idea, and I would either not want to spend the time or would just straight up not feel like it. As mentioned previously, this is not a strategy issue - this is a mechanics issue. The better you get at translating conditional statements, the less time it takes you to translate one, and therefore the less reason you have to not do it outside of pure laziness. So (assuming laziness is never taken to be a good reason), once those conditional translation skills get up to snuff, there is no further excuse. You might be 80/20 or even 90/10 on the question if you intuit it, but if you want to be 100% sure there's only one choice. Once upon a time, 80/20 or 90/10 was good enough because I had much bigger fish to fry. But at some point, it isn't good enough anymore, and at that point it simply has to be dealt with. If 'extra couple seconds' above seems ambitious to you, ask yourself - why? Is it because it's objectively an impossible thing to do, or is it simply that I haven't developed that level of proficiency yet? If it's the latter, why not? I always have the option and the ability to sit and focus it down; not doing so is a choice. Granted, it is sometimes the correct choice (bigger fish to fry), but it is nevertheless a conscious choice that you have to own.

  It's extremely unlikely that you will have the time to master everything about the test before you go take it, so if you leave this question at that 90/10 intuition level because other considerations come in, no problem. In September of 2006, I was 100% in that exact position; that level of caution was a luxury to me at that time that I couldn't afford to indulge. It's only as time has gone on that that's changed for me. Still, the point remains. This is the reason it's a learning 'process' - because the 'right thing' or 'best thing' changes with your skill level, and your decisions and decision-making processes have to adapt.
• 2 Likes

  Lime Green Dot Member ⭐

  May 2021 1384 karma

  @"Jonathan Wang" wow... Words to mull on for a long time to come ❤️

  Sorry it meant your team was having a lousy night, but inwardly thankful they were to give me this. I'm a long way's off from having the full, proper response to it all right now, other than gratitude and self-contemplation. Thank you for sharing your journey and all that's changed in your approach since that fateful September day.

  These are the words I'm starting my studies with today, and I know they'll guide me well.
• 1 Like

  Habeas Porpoise Alum Member Sage ⭐

  May 2021 edited July 2021 1866 karma

  @TakingOnTheBeast, @"Lime Green Dot"

  I don't remember exactly what I said anymore, but I know I got to a point where I felt so good with the form/mechanics that they turned into instinct that I could use in stressful situations--almost like learned reflexes. At the same time, if all else failed, I had the mechanics to solve the problem more systematically (like if I felt frozen and my instincts weren't taking over--hopefully, you get to a point of comfort and confidence with this test that this rarely happens).
  To put it simply, in the beginning of prep I tell students to step away from intuition because it's often wrong (founded more on assumptions than on sound logic). But you rebuild your intuition as you get better with the test, until your "gut feeling" now rests on the deeper understanding you have from digging into (hundreds of) problems.
• Lime Green Dot Member ⭐

  May 2021 1384 karma

  To put it simply, in the beginning of prep I tell students to step away from intuition because it's often wrong (founded more on assumptions than on sound logic). But you rebuild your intuition as you get better with the test, until your "gut feeling" now rests on the deeper understanding you have from digging into (hundreds) of problems.

  This is such an amazing way to think about it! I've been revisiting my mechanics over the past several days and see where a ghastly number of holes need to be filled and cemented over before I can consider my gut a rational friend and not just a misguided feeling. Thank you, @"Habeas Porpoise"!