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No Letters of Recommendation
Keena_86
Core Member
Hi Everyone,
Any insight would be greatly appreciated. I have been out of school for 10 years now and due to my job have moved to another part of the country. I don't have any close ties to my undergrad university plus it was so long ago I doubt a letter of recommendation from an old professor would be effective. I've worked for the same company rising through the ranks for the last 9 years. I don't believe I can go to a superior to ask for a LOR because I would be notifying my employer of my intent to leave the company. I can't take that risk with my family so long before I would actually attend law school. I am not a member of any major organization, church, or anything of that nature. My work schedule never really allowed for it. Has anyone else experienced a similar situation? Is writing an addendum to explain the lack of LOR's an option? Again, any ideas or thoughts are welcome and appreciated. Thank you!
Comments
I don't think you can apply without at least one (or two) LORs. I think it would also mean an automatic rejection, but I could be wrong. Is there someone you are close to who you trust and is ranked higher than you who could write you an LOR?
Hey UCLAplease, thank you for responding! Unfortunately, there isn't anyone above me I could ask. In fact, company policy is to not provide LORs to anyone, for any reason. Ironically enough, for legal reasons! I have a couple of letters that were written after I graduated but they are 10 years old and pertain to education (my undergrad).
At this point, I would reach out to professors and explain the situation. If you are anywhere near them, you could even meet up for dinner or something. Try to dig up old papers/work you've done for them to remind them of who you are. Otherwise, I'm not sure what else you can do. It's not uncommon to reach out to professors for LORs years after finishing school.
Have you taken the LSAT at all? Is your score enough to get you into your desired law school(s)? If so, you can tell them that you're in great position to be accepted to law school and that might make those professors more sympathetic to your plight. Check to see how many LORs each school you're interested in requires.
Unfortunately you are just going to have to find someone... Your app wont even go complete without the required LORs. They wont even look at it. If it takes seeking out a relationship just to get the letters, then that is what you need to do. Sign up for a class, join an organization, do some volunteer work, etc. you might have to get creative.
It seems like you are in a position where you really have to hustle and be a go-getter in receiving letter of recs. If I were you I would take up volunteer work somewhere and be diligent and persistent in making connections with all who oversee. I would find any opportunity to search for people all around who have higher titles and start becoming good friends with them. You have to go out there and find a way to build connections with people of good status so that you can eventually ask for letter of recs. This might take a little while and will probably be difficult, but you have to do what you have to do. Otherwise I would also advise that you do what UCLAplease stated and reach out to old professors explaining your situation and offering to treat them for coffee or to schedule a meeting to address your goals and allow them a chance to get to know you, worst answer you're going to get is a no.
I think that if you have a good relationship with your bosses, you are going to have to tell them of your future endeavors. Hopefully they will be happy for you.
There is a substantial minority of law schools which do not require LORs. Temple Beasley School of Law being one of them that I know of. You'd have to do some research to find others.
That being said... I would still strongly advocate for obtaining LORs. Sometimes you gotta make a way when there is no way.
Hey....., I'm in the same boat...!!!!
Reach out to old colleagues and see if they can help.
I agree with comments above that you may just need to reach out to old profs/mentors and/or become part of some community organization where you can get a referral.
There are about 5 or so schools that don't require any LORs, including Washington St. Louis (no.18~). Florida State (no.50~) is another ... you just have to look through the apps. I'm always surprised when I see one. Yeah it might weaken your application against others who DO have some, but if your GPA and LSAT score are well above average, you'll stand out where it matters most and maybe make up for a weaker 'soft' package. Especially if the schools do interviews, where they'll be able to 'see' who you are in a way. Also, make sure the personal statement is tops, to help compensate. And mention this in your PS (or better, in a short addendum, so you can have your PS be about you and why you're an asset to the school). I've been out of school for about 10 years and a lot of my profs are dead, so I totally understand this difficulty! (Least of all, what prof with so many students in-and-out will really remember someone 10+ years on!). Plus, the schools in webinars are looking more from work LORs from the 'non-traditional' students knowing their academic references are so old and likely irrelevant at the point in their life that they're applying so long past academia.
If you really have your heart set on a school that just needs one LOR, join up quickly with a small organization that does volunteer work: soup kitchen, homeless shelter?, food pantry? ... But again, that's going to be tricky when you work all week. A religious organization that meets at night or just once a week might be the quickest way. ??? Good luck!
Worst case scenario could be to find someone who has known your character for a long time (family friend, partner, (not your mother/father)) and have them write a 'filler' LOR. If you do this, you MUST write an addendum explaining the situation. Admissions don't like these, but with your unique situation, an addendum might explain WHY you're doing it - to just fulfill a requirement; that you hope the rest of your application speaks to who you are. But, I would NOT do this if you need two LORs, only if you need one. And, I would stay in 40+ ranked schools, ... assuming this isn't your goal to begin with. [anecdotal, but I applied to a school without any LOR and received a 75% merit scholarship, this cycle no less - so it's possible just based on LSAT/UGPA! It's all about the balance that your entire application has to offer and speak about you as a candidate into a program]. But, if you're aiming for <T30 (likely <T40), you're going to really need to find the required LORs from supervisors at your work to be considered as a candidate.
I'm assuming you're from the US, but have you considered going to law school outside the US? In Canada the majority of law schools (actually, I can't even think of a single one) don't require letters of recommendation. The majority of your application is based on grades and LSAT score and then the top ones (U of T, UBC, Osgoode, etc) place a heavier emphasis on your extracurricular experience (and even then, grades and lsat score are still the dealbreaker). I actually think this system is way more equitable because it means you're not going to get accepted on the basis of recommendation letters from people that others just simply might not ever have had the opportunity to know or meet.
As people have said, try to dig up some old work and attempt to explain the situation to professors you're able to reach out to. Besides that, VOLUNTEER! Take a month or two to help out at your local food pantry, church, library, whatever the case may be!
I'd reach out to the law schools you're interested in and ask! Who knows, they may make an exception or provide better guidance than we can.
Two options, written in decreasing priority:
Reach out to your professors and explain the situation. Really, it doesn't even have to be a professor for whom you did research or so. Look at your transcript, pick the subjects where you have an A or B+, and ask for an LOR. Give them guidance and, if necessary, provide them with a draft.
Really think about whether there is a former supervisor/colleague in your current of former employer who would be willing to provide you an LOR, who you come along well with and whom you really trust that he won't tell anyone about your intent to leave.
1 is highly prioritized over 2, since most law schools require at least 1 academic LOR.
Last but not least: I think you are overestimating the role of an LOR so much that you consider that no LOR is better than an average LOR. The truth is, though, that LOR's won't really affect the admission's decision as long as there is nothing explicitly negative written about you in it.
As long as the LOR consists of something like "He's a smart guy and he did not punch his classmates" and there are no coffee stains covering the Prof's signature, then that's a pass, and counts as much as an LOR over which the admissions committee would jerk off. Honestly. LSAT and GPA will make the decision, not LORs. So please reach out to as many professors as possible, get these two LORs and ensure they are at least neutral (which would be, as stated above, totally sufficient, for any law school), and focus on getting the right stats.
Good luck.
@Keena_86 -- Would there be anyone who you've done any work with that you trust could speak honestly on your work ethic and what sets you apart from others? I don't think it HAS to be from a supervisor, especially given the circumstances (admissions will see your resume as well so that helps). My biggest piece of advice would be to write an addendum that explains your situation and why you're taking whatever approach you take. I think that a short, to the point explanation in a non-required addendum would go a long way. It provides clarity to the admissions board and also shows a little extra effort. That's all I have at the moment but I certainly don't see any situation where it could hurt. At the end of the day your LSAT score is going to be the biggest factor, period - I can tell you this with confidence. LORs are great but are not as big of a deal as people think. At the end of the day your LSAT score, UPGA and Resume will be the main drivers. Best of luck!
Coming from only a place of good will but quite frankly, I doubt the luck you'd have in doing this. A law school's application requirements are fairly black & white. You wouldn't email a law school admissions office and ask if they'd make an exception for you not writing a personal statement or submitting your LSAT score would you? When they say LORs are required, it's what they mean. If you have a different perspective, I'd be happy to hear, but I'm pretty convinced of this.
Well...make sure to read those "black and white requirements" because many schools will make an exception for an LSAT score...they will take a GRE score (Harvard, Duke, Yale, UVA just to name a few). I personally would not suggest a GRE score over the LSAT but it does fit the requirements for a good number of schools. I also would NEVER email an admissions office a question like this. This is a question to address in person after a tour if possible. At the end of the day, this is a tough situation based on the information provided. I never suggested not submitting any LORs. A requirement is a requirement. My advice was to write an addendum that explains the situation and why they took the approach they did with LORs (whatever that may be). With that said, since they are a non traditional student it never hurts to inquire additional information on what the school would deem acceptable in this situation, most schools will accept not academic LORs if you've been out of undergrad 6+ years. But let's not compare apples and oranges -- LORs carry less weight than your LSAT score and PS. Granted that the rest of the application is strong, the LOR is not likely to have a substantial impact as long as the requirement is made. As long as research is done before the question is asked, I wouldn't see the harm in reaching out to admissions to see what they deem sufficient. With that said, the answer can most likely be found in the FAQs section of the school website.
As others have said there are very few law schools where the letters of recommendation are not a requirement. I have also been out of school about 10 years and there is no way that I would ask an old professor to write a letter of rec either. Frankly, after that amount of time I would think the letter would come across as generic, lack examples ( which is what makes the best letters in my opinion) and would be a missed opportunity to help address why you want to go to law school and why you would make a great candidate.
Not only have I been out of school around the same time as you, I actually was transferred to a different division in January so I have totally different co workers/management and I don't know them well enough nor do I trust them well enough to alert them to the fact that I might be leaving.
But you have been with your company for 9 years so I think these letters may be easier to get than you might think.
Your first point of contact should be previous supervisors/managers who have left the company for whatever reason and can speak to your work. These people have no skin in the game and are not going to say anything about you applying to law school.
Another resource might be a manager from another department ( maybe even a friend/colleague) for someone like this you may need to help them with some guidance of how you work together or how that person would know of your skills, but it is an option. You could also talk to a previous manager from another department who is again working elsewhere, you just may need to help people like this a little bit and give them a basic template to follow as well as some examples to include.
Another option would be repeat customers/vendors or someone that you have interacted with on a regular basis but doesn't work in the company directly so again, won't have any reason to say anything about you potentially leaving.
You should try to obtain 2/3 solid letters so hopefully one or two of those will come from your workplace but other options would be if you are on any sort of club, sports team, volunteer capacity, or somewhere like that where someone could speak of your abilities and leadership.
That's not an exception. That's literally what their policy is... to accept either test, something at least 70 schools do. An exception would be if you could substitute something like the MCAT or GMAT that is not specified, and much like the original issue of getting away with not submitting required LoRs, not likely to happen. Your app will not even go complete on the LSAC page without them.
Not that it'll hurt to ask, and not that it's absolutely impossible (just as getting into law school without taking the required standardized test is not impossible), but honestly it's a lot easier to get someone to write you an LOR than it is to try to miracle your way in. Even at places like WUSTL that dont have a minimum requirement, you'd be competing against thousands of people who did whatever they needed to get those letters anyway. Will a bomb LSAT/GPA outweigh that, maybe... but why risk it, especially with the expected rough cycle ahead?
What about people you worked with who have since left the company?
Connect with your colleagues to do it. It doesn't necessarily have to be someone above you. How about someone you worked with as a team? Perhaps they could vouch for your work ethic and character.