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For those of you who are feeling depressed....
thinkorswim
Alum Member
WARNING LONG READ
Hi yall, it has now been approximately a month since i got my LSAT score and I really wasn't sure how I was feeling and lost with what to do with my life so I guess this post is kind of late. I wasn't really sure if I was going to post this but I thought the community was always helpful when I was feeling down so I thought I could shed some light on others.
Time Spent: Approx 3+ years on and off. 135ish ( never took a diagnostic but did them untimed) ---> 168. Wrote it like 4 times
Resources Used: Official LSAT Prep Tests Book, LSAT Trainer, Kaplan, Princeton, All of the Powerscore Books, The Loophole, 7sage, pretty much read all of the LSAT books in publication, have written every question once if not 2x 3x 4x
First of all, I was not skilled at the LSAT in fact I was quite stupid to be frank. You know how your suppose to do the first 10 questions in LR in the first 10 minutes ...... yea I was getting like 2 right untimed in the first ten. God knows how many i'll get wrong in the whole section. It sucks but that is the harsh reality. Everyone says the test is learnable and that is true.... but it's just the fact that people learn at different rates and well, if you are not skilled at reasoning nor ever had formal training in logic, nor read much in your younger years then its going to take quite a while ..... However rest assured you will make it, it's just how much you are willing to sacrifice. I literally know a girl who studied for 2 months and got a 172, also recently I got recommended on YT to this girl's channel studyquill and watched her cold diagnostic a 168. DERP DERP DERP. But the point is and I want you guys to know this is that these people have literally been studying their WHOLE lives (just subliminally). They are extremely well read, most likely been trained in logic at a young age, and probably to a certain extent quite gifted. The LSAT is a skills test and if you have been sharpening on these specific skills (logical reasoning, reading, spatial reasoning) you are rewarded. Someone like me that spent his time playing video games....... well its going to be a grind.
In the first part of my studying, I initially just bought the LSAT tests. You know the ones that says 10 new actual official PT's, yea those ones. I would write them untimed in the beginning just to get a good feel of the test. In hindsight, I don't think this is terrible as I actually believe that you should accustom yourself to what they are asking. I have no idea that they were testing on deductive reasoning, heck I didn't even know what that was. I was bringing in inductive reasoning and that honestly kills you on the LSAT. The LSAT only cares about what is on paper. I wish someone told me that earlier but I honestly wouldn't have been able to separate my inferences as that was so foreign to me. I think I did this for a few months hoping that the more questions I do, I would just naturally get better. Oh yea, don't do that. You need to know specific concepts on the LSAT if you were never taught that. I had no idea what a necessary assumption yet alone what was a sufficient assumption. I would pick that answer like it was a main point and hope that it was right LMAO. I remember thinking that I liked sufficient assumption questions more then NA since SOMETIMES I got it right when my method was just to pick something that sounds like the main point. Clearly my dreams of scoring in the 170's was not happening. Anyways, I ended up being gifted a Kaplan Logical Reasoning book. It's actually quite good TBH, I actually think its better than the powerscore one which everyone seems to go to. Well after reading it, I figured out the different types of questions but MOST importantly, I LEARNED what even was DEDUCTIVE REASONING. Like jesus, I had to stop thinking what was going on in my day to day life and learn how to focus only on the FACTS on the paper. Oh yea I think I almost figured out what a premise is. It's something that supports the conclusion ...... Well actually KNOWING and actually SEEING is completely different. I highly recommend for improvement in LR to literally map out the whole section on every question what is the premise and draw an arrow to the conclusion. It's super important to ingrain good habits, believe me it will save you a lot of time improving.
Okay, so now I finished the book. Lets see where am I at, okay -12 to -15 on an untimed section of LR hmmmm quite bad but that's improvement! I just needed to sharpen my skills. So here we go, I bought a set of Powerscore Bibles and started working through them. I read every single page and worked through all of them. I also read a princeton book and a not so good barrons or something along the way. I think I was beginning to grasp the concepts of the questions. However, I was STILL SUFFICIENTLY lacking. If you never had a formal education in reasoning a lot of the concepts you need is just not covered in depth in a lot of these books. However, if your diagnostic is high then it may be enough. All of these books are thicc and they just won't have enough space to add even more. I wish I had found 7sage sooner.
Anyways, a year or so has passed and I have now read all these books. Okay, so I'm probably PTing at about 145-150 at this point. Not great but from where I came from, its actually quite nice. I obviously didn't see it like that cus I wanted that 170. My mindset was 170 or die. I think I wrote the LSAT once during this time when it was offered on paper just to test the water. I mean my parents, friends, and family knew I was studying all the time and kind of just expected me to have something to show for it. I was nowhere near ready but it is at this point that those around you will start pressuring you and YOU WILL feel huge amounts of social anxiety and depression. So I went in there thinking I could just clutch it. In my mind I was like yea, maybe if I just needed some pressure to bring out my A game. I was most likely PTing around the 150s thinking I could just KOBEEE my way to the 165s and call it a day. Yea that didn't happen.
Well anyways, I obviously didn't give up and continued my journey. Finally here comes 7sage!~ The star of the show has arrived but oh crap man is that curriculum long AF. I think I forced myself and tried to speed through it. Big mistake. The curriculum is extremely long and daunting but for someone like me, it was what I needed but didn't realize. A lot of the times I didn't feel like studying but I just kept grinding at it. That's a good mindset to keep grinding but learning the LSAT takes a lot of time and you actually need to KNOW the concepts if you want to score high. You need to make sure your mind is right and actually UNDERSTAND rather than trying to beat it into your head like me. Anyways after the curriculum I think I was touching the 155 - 160s on a good day. Back to my bad habits of trying to write every single question and improving like that. THAT IS NOT THE WAY TO GO ! You are being tested on your reasoning and brute forcing reasoning will only take you so far. I think I was on my second year of studying for the LSAT and here was when I got a study buddy. She realized that even though I finished the core curriculum my UNDERSTANDING of it was sub-par. You not only need to know contrapositives and negations, but you NEEDED to do it FAST ! She made me redo the core curriculum, yes the whole thing ........ I dreaded it, I hated it, but it was what I needed. J.Y's teaching is golden, he literally gives you the most in depth step by step approach.
Okay so 2 years has passed and remember when I said that you'll feel social anxiety and depression. Yea YOU ARE REALLY going to feel it now. I no longer talk to my friends and family about what I'm doing. I can't even look at them in the eye, that's how bad it was. I think I lied about what I was doing in my room, but literally I was consuming every video ever posted by J.Y. like so many times it was ridiculous. I think I was scoring around the 160s now after going through the CC twice. Guess what I did, I thought I knew enough and continued grinding through PT after PT. Yea that's just a pit of depression when you keep seeing you are getting the same score over and over again. You literally have to figure out WHY you are getting the questions wrong. If you don't understand the reasoning ( and I know it can be hard when you have no one ) you are NOT going to get the next similar question right. IT IS SIMPLY NOT HOW IT WORKS. The LSAT is f' in hard and it will tear you apart time after time just in a subtler shade of meaning. So grab yourself a study buddy and go at it, you need someone to hash out WHY specifically your reasoning is wrong. If you like to do this yourself, type out why each and every answer choice is right / wrong and post it in the comments section. This will hold you accountable.
Ah so finally, stuck in the 160s and not sure what to do. You think you know but in reality you know nothing. Yes, I did the curriculum a third time. If 7sage had a tracker on how much time you spent watching their videos, I think I would be in the 99th percentile rank 1. You want to score in the 165s and beyond you not only have to KNOW you have to do it LIGHTNING FAST. It becomes almost like intuition. Contrapositives, negations, sufficient assumption, necessary assumptions, etc. you going to be REAL QUICK !
So here we go again, into the third year.... most likely most of you won't be able to fathom what I was feeling. Friends, family, relationships ..... yea no one knew that I was still trying. I think its actually advantageous to keep it this way if you are struggling. It keeps the anxiety off when no one bombards you with " ARE YOU STILL STUDYING?". Logical reasoning I was doing good now, I mean ... I think I wrote every single question like 3 times..... I think I have also written every single PT multiple times. But you know what I still can't get around RC. It's just so hard when you didn't spend time reading growing up. ( I only read finance books) At this stage I was drilling RC every single day since it kept me out of the high 160's and 170s. I think I wrote every single RC passage like 4 times and I still don't get them all right. Going -5 to -6 was a good day. I think I might have to just give up on my dream on scoring in the 170s and live with a 168.....
Oh yea I forgot to tell ya my GPA is atrocious so hopefully ONE law school will take a chance on me in Canada...... Hopefully for those of you struggling this has cheered you up! There is ALWAYS someone in a worst off place than you are and I believe I might just be that person.
I would like to give a special thanks to my study buddy @Vibrio, I know your home isn't in a good place right now and I wish you all the best. You were an amazing study buddy pushing me to the limits going through the CC multiple times even though I was angry.
Thank you to @jmarmaduke96 for offering to tutor me and changing my studying methodologies on the come-up when I had no one to talk to. He is an amazing tutor and would highly recommend anyone to get taught by him.
Thank you @Sami for always being a gem to the community. I would always go to her workshops to learn from her. She is an absolutely amazing person and I would highly recommend her!
Thank you @J.Y. Ping and the whole community here at 7sage you are absolutely amazing and making a change in the world.
AMA also if you are feeling unwell and just need someone to talk to please feel free to DM me as I probably have experienced everything you are feeling I am still not feeling great at the moment as I'm not sure where my life will take me but perhaps I know the answer to your questions without knowing mine . If you need help on an LR question send me a DM and I will try to do my best to explain it to you as I got really good at explaining questions (went near perfect on the exam) since I came from the worst possible. I think being one of the most stupidest has trained me at explaining things to other not so bright minds
Also for those of you wondering how I was able to afford this time, I was trading stocks and options in the morning before I began studying for the LSATs. I was luckily enough that I could do this. Good luck to you all you will make it if you want it bad enough !!
Comments
Wow, 3 years is a long haul, congrats on hanging in there!
Quite an overlooked observation you made in regards to people that appear to just blitz the test cold. I have never played video games, but I definitely got lulled into rote learning and being spoon fed throughout high school, so the demands of the LSAT have been a massive reality check, and I've had to give myself more time to adjust as a result.
Congrats again!
Thank you so much for this! I was feeling down as the August test date approached. I guess I just have to hang in and give my all. I really admire the effort and hard work you've put into this journey! Huge congrats that you've made it through and good luck on your admission!!
@ceyung97 Thank you ! Now I just need a law school to take a chance on me . Yea learning through undergrad and highschool is completely different. Memorization of facts is completely different from actual reasoning that is tested on the LSAT. I wish I was taught like this in undergrad TBH. Keep at it as it will take some time to adjust/change the way you think.
@lilolilo its normal to feel down but you just have to keep your head up. Comparison will only lead to depression. The struggle is real and different for many people. I wish you all the best in Aug !
I needed this so much, I just had a breakdown earlier today from a section I was usually getting -4 and -5, I got to -11 this morning. Thank you so much and honestly you're pretty freaking tough and inspiring to survive through 3 years of LSAT studying. Best of luck!
Thanks so much . This test has left me depressed, broke, and insane lol. Glad I'm not the only 1 struggling. Also everyone needs to think about how bad the arguments they hear in everyday life are. Media, teachers, parents, doctors, insurers, presidents make bad arguments so no wonder the LSAT is hard.
Thank you for saying this, much needed right now. Going to take my 4th attempt and scored the exact same the first two times with 3 months of studying apart (so real bummer) and then scored 3 points higher the third time. Yet all those scores were wayyy below my pt score I was getting. I've been feeling bummed/stupid bc I've been seeing not much progress after a year. Those real tests just psych me out. Also, totally relatable about how it affects relationships, I stopped telling people after my 3rd attempt bc I don't want to hear about it
@learn2skipQs yes it does tend to leave you like that..... perhaps we are just masochistic LOL . Apparently LSATing greatly enhances the grey matter in your brain. Think of it as an investment in your yourself. Maybe with a stronger way of thinking, all your future endeavors will be more successful
@legallybrown2000 I actually had a similar experience like you! I had the same psychologically issue taking the real thing on 7sage and taking the real thing. For me to get around this, I took all my PTs on LSAC Hub for a while to stimulate the real thing. Furthermore, for someone like you you need to have the mindset of NOT GIVING A F. That was the mindset I had going in for my 4th write. You took this test so many times, you spent so much time studying, you need to calm the nerves and just GO ! It doesn't even matter anymore since you took it this many times, within 365 days (im assuming 2 years limits) you will be able to retake it again. A lot of people recommend registering for a future date as well since that greatly alleviates the stress. For me, I took it randomly WITHOUT EVER TELLING ANYONE. This made me not care, not stress, and able to finally focus my mind. I told myself I just don't care. I also LOWERED the bar I aint going for that juicy 170+ I was like if I got a few points higher than my last write then THATS good. This closed a lot of the gap between my PT score and actual. Gluck to you and reach out if you want to talk about mindset.
@Vivlawyer score drop offs are normal. I remember feeling terrible when they happened. Sometimes its just not your day or its not a PT that's in your favor. I also experienced huge drop offs in my time studying. You need to calm yourself and look at it from an optimistic point of view. This was NOT your test day, this is just you at home. Take it as an opportunity to learn. Why did you miss more questions then usual. I assure you IT IS good that this happened now and not on your real test day as it could show a glaring weakness in your LSATing. Be happy that this is a blessing and not your real test. Now go find out WHY you missed those questions and lower the probability of this happening on the real thing. I know it is gut wrenching when you click score and see those numbers, but look at it holistically as getting a great score is dependent on you MINIMIZING the probabilities of mistakes happening on test day.
Congratulation again!
Thank you so much for posting your study process and study experience here! You are a really hard worker! You study so hard. When I want to give it up, I will think about your post and keep going. I am admire of you that you were stocking and option to support yourself. I wish I could do that as well. I have to support myself so I have to work during the week. Please do not say you are stupid as I feel I might more stupid than you... Your journey told me that LSAT could be conquered! Thank you again for your post!
Best of luck for everything!
This is one of the most raw and funny posts on here! Thank you for sharing your journey. A jump from the 130s to the 160s is a great leap.
I like how you mentioned that even some of the most "naturally" high scoring LSAT test takers have studied and read all of their lives. I was initially intimidated when I found out that some people have been able to take a cold diagnostic in the 170s, but I was told that most of these people had been rigorously educated throughout their lives. At least one girl I know of scored a cold diagnostic in the 170s, but she admitted that she was stuck in standardized testing programs and prep courses for much of her childhood by her white collar parents. And here I was thinking something was wrong with me since I didn't score a cold diagnostic in the 170s, when really, everyone just has different educational backgrounds and starting points!
Goes to show that we all have our own learning journey, and it really is true that you can't and shouldn't compare yourself to others!
All the best.
@"Glutton for the LSAT" thank you for your kind words ! Yea the LSAT tests a very specific skillset. Some people just either know it intuitively, or has been subliminally taught it their whole lives. Like I know my degree didn't teach me anything about sufficiency/ necessary conditions. I thought there was something wrong with me too lol when I first started. To each it's own as everyone is gifted in their own certain areas. I was skilled in finance/investing but absolutely atrocious at LSATing. As long as you are improving as an individual is the only measurement we should really have.
Now THESE are the type of stories I love to read. Congrats! I too have been in it for 3 years on and off, but I'm more serious this time around. Hoping to bring good news just as you have. Good job!
omfg, king or queen. Your resiliency is admirable. I sincerely wish the best for the next phases of your life. Please remain on the 7Sage platform and counsel us!!
Totally needed this. I just took a LG and got every single one wrong! Cried a little bit and then went back into it to review it.
Thank you for sharing!! All the best to you!!
@LegallyLSAT go get it !!! not everyone starts off at the same point but EVERYONE is capable!!! lmk if you ever need anything
@lsat_sus homie you seem chill AF. loving your funny posts and cardi references. i hope you kill it tmrw !!
@Nadzter19 remember I was once there as well. Take a deep breath and remember this as a blessing. THIS IS NOT THE REAL THING, this is an OPPORTUNITY to address your weaknesses. Thank god that you are missing questions right now sitting at home, this is an opportunity for you to learn. LG is very learnable if you put in the work and do enough of them.
@laura_lolo thank you for your kind words ! gluck to you as well as I'm sure you will do great !
@thinkorswim thanks fam - means a lot. I also read this about 3 times since my last comment and I just can't get over the "135 to a 168.." 33 points..... & not telling anybody you're studying? Hiding the LSAT from fam and friends? Lol, how tf did you articulate such a relatable reality - it's so funny but so sad at the same time, "rofl" (do we still say this?)
But damn man. I'm really happy for you but I also share the sorrow tied to that 168.. I feel like we coulda been good friends had we crossed paths earlier. Much sad, but best of luck to you as well king! You can pay for law school with all that stocks money
**ps aye you on PC PS XBOX? Hit me with that gamertag fam