7Sage Podcast Episode #60 - 7Sager ME V LSAT - 146 To 180 LSAT

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• 2 Likes

  Ashley2018-1 Alum Member

  November 2021 edited November 2021 2249 karma

  At this point after being stuck at 165 for forever and ever I’m just looking at these kinds of posts and going like how?
• 2 Likes

  Determined_-1 Member

  November 2021 924 karma

  FINALLY. She is amazing!
• 6 Likes

  phosita_phoeatah Yearly Member

  November 2021 edited November 2021 238 karma

  @Ashley2018 said:
  At this point after being stuck at 165 for forever and ever I’m just looking at these kinds of posts and going like how?

  "How" is an easy question to answer: combination of dedication, natural talents, and often a supportive surrounding. The difficult part is whether any of that is applicable or could be adapted to our individual circumstances.

  Before I go any further, I should note that this particular forumite has been quite helpful to those of us in the preparation phase, and much of her wisdom are useful to the rest of us, even if the colloquial we (or perhaps just I) most likely won't see the type of results she was able to attain. What I write next is not a critique of her per se but rather the self-reporting tendencies at large and 7Sage's selection of anecdotes for its podcast.

  That said, there's a built-in self-reporting bias, namely, we are much more likely to hear of self-reported stories of success, than we are to hear of struggles or stories of the merely successful (let's not lose track that a 165 is still better than what 85% could muster). Furthermore, many who are preparing gravitate toward these types of anecdotes, because they hope to glean a morsel or two of wisdom. The anecdote teller may not even offer anything constructive to the forum at large in recounting his/her own story (again, this is not applicable to this particular forumite), but I'll wager there will be quite a bit of participation and encouragement whenever such a thread is started. About a month back, someone claimed to have scored a 175 and then brazenly started advertising tutoring service in the same post by soliciting PMs, all this despite not being on the approved tutor list. Yet that thread quickly filled up with posts of "please PM me" (at least one page worth) before the thread was rightfully deleted. Unlike the forumite featured here, that poster offered nothing and was merely angling for commercial opportunities; yet there were so many willing to give that poster a chance.

  In a sense, we who prepare are in a position of "weakness" and those who made it are in a position of "strength". Some who made it are kind people who wish to share their wisdom with others (such as the forumite featured), some wish to brag (only human nature), and others (such as the aforementioned poster with an alleged 175) merely wish to use it as a front for ulterior motives. To many of us who have not reached the promised land, the intents and motivations don't matter, all that matters is discovering how to reach the promised land. It is a form of appeal to authority (which, granted, is a lot better than appealing to a snake oil monger), but in another sense, it's a trap of mistaking high scores per se as a sign of there's something one could glean, learn, and adopt.

  Then there's the issue of why 7Sage has this type of anecdotes on its podcasts. Out of the 60 serialized podcasts to date, 17 are on personal anecdotes of 7Sage students. All but one scored 170 or higher (and the other one scored 169). Most of the 17 also have experienced quite an increase in their scores (lowest increase appears to be from 164 to 174). Both attributes are highly unrepresentative in the grand scheme of things (though perhaps there's a higher proportion of such students among 7Sage users), with all of the scores being in the top 5 %tile. You know this, I know this, and most people who are studying know this. But whether by coincidence or by design, it seems that a high score is a prerequisite to getting featured. But why do you think these podcasts focused on non-representative anecdotes are there anyway? The question to ask, as with most things when someone's interest comes into play, is to ask cui bono; whoever that person may be, it most definitely isn't strictly pro bono.
• Ashley2018-1 Alum Member

  November 2021 2249 karma

  @phosita_phoeatah said:

  @Ashley2018 said:
  At this point after being stuck at 165 for forever and ever I’m just looking at these kinds of posts and going like how?

  "How" is an easy question to answer: combination of dedication, natural talents, and often a supportive surrounding. The difficult part is whether any of that is applicable or could be adapted to our individual circumstances.

  Before I go any further, I should note that this particular forumite has been quite helpful to those of us in the preparation phase, and much of her wisdom are useful to the rest of us, even if the colloquial we (or perhaps just I) most likely won't see the type of results she was able to attain. What I write next is not a critique of her per se but rather the self-reporting tendencies at large and 7Sage's selection of anecdotes for its podcast.

  That said, there's a built-in self-reporting bias, namely, we are much more likely to hear of self-reported stories of success, than we are to hear of struggles or stories of the merely successful (let's not lose track that a 165 is still better than what 85% could muster). Furthermore, many who are preparing gravitate toward these types of anecdotes, because they hope to glean a morsel or two of wisdom. The anecdote teller may not even offer anything constructive to the forum at large in recounting his/her own story (again, this is not applicable to this particular forumite), but I'll wager there will be quite a bit of participation and encouragement whenever such a thread is started. About a month back, someone claimed to have scored a 175 and then brazenly started advertising tutoring service in the same post by soliciting PMs, all this despite not being on the approved tutor list. Yet that thread quickly filled up with posts of "please PM me" (at least one page worth) before the thread was rightfully deleted. Unlike the forumite featured here, that poster offered nothing and was merely angling for commercial opportunities; yet there were so many willing to give that poster a chance.

  In a sense, we who prepare are in a position of "weakness" and those who made it are in a position of "strength". Some who made it are kind people who wish to share their wisdom with others (such as the forumite featured), some wish to brag (only human nature), and others (such as the aforementioned poster with an alleged 175) merely wish to use it as a front for ulterior motives. To many of us who have not reached the promised land, the intents and motivations don't matter, all that matters is discovering how to reach the promised land. It is a form of appeal to authority (which, granted, is a lot better than appealing to a snake oil monger), but in another sense, it's a trap of mistaking high scores per se as a sign of there's something one could glean, learn, and adopt.

  Then there's the issue of why 7Sage has this type of anecdotes on its podcasts. Out of the 60 serialized podcasts to date, 17 are on personal anecdotes of 7Sage students. All but one scored 170 or higher (and the other one scored 169). Most of the 17 also have experienced quite an increase in their scores (lowest increase appears to be from 164 to 174). Both attributes are highly unrepresentative in the grand scheme of things (though perhaps there's a higher proportion of such students among 7Sage users), with all of the scores being in the top 5 %tile. You know this, I know this, and most people who are studying know this. But whether by coincidence or by design, it seems that a high score is a prerequisite to getting featured. But why do you think these podcasts focused on non-representative anecdotes are there anyway? The question to ask, as with most things when someone's interest comes into play, is to ask cui bono; whoever that person may be, it most definitely isn't strictly pro bono.

  lol I think I know who you’re talking about.
• 4 Likes

  cpeaks13 Core Member

  November 2021 496 karma

  @phosita_phoeatah i think its quite helpful hearing how top scorers get to where they did. As for using 170s scorers, why would you interview low scorers to give people tips on achieving high scores lol
• 2 Likes

  ME_V_LSAT Member

  November 2021 1538 karma

  Thank you so much for interviewing me!! it was a pleasure speaking with JY!
• 1 Like

  Determined_-1 Member

  November 2021 924 karma

  @ME_V_LSAT Thank you for sharing your insight. I wish we got to hear more about how meditation has impacted you and how your improved your process, but I understand that all of your valuable information can only be contained in such a short time. I hope you'll be around to share more insight on the forums! I always go back to your discussions on your favorite books and advice and find them so helpful!
• 1 Like

  lsatprepper2 Member

  November 2021 68 karma

  Wow, as a mom of two that's PT'd at 148 in May and also works, I find this super inspiring. Thank you for this podcast.
• 1 Like

  ME_V_LSAT Member

  November 2021 edited December 2021 1538 karma

  @Determined_ first of all, I love your username. At the end of the conversation, I told JY I could've talked for another 2 hours because we only scratched the surface! I'm still here and would love to continue to offer strategies that may be helpful (although bear with me with any delays because my daughter could be born any day now!)

  Regarding mindfulness: I was skeptical of its efficacy, but then I learned that practicing mindfulness actually helps us focus our attention on studying. A helpful analogy I learned is that it's like a workout for the attention function in our brain.

  I always feel like I have a super long to do list running in my brain, so doing mindfulness before I started studying helped me clear my mind and direct my attention to the task at hand.

  Over time, I noticed I was less "reactive" and overall felt more peaceful and patient with myself through the inevitable ups and downs of studying for the LSAT. I also noticed that when I would spend time with my son after work, I was more present to him and could shut off my "work brain."

  Here's a podcast episode on mindfulness I found really helpful:

  With all the forums, reddit, and news around the LSAT and application cycles, the law school journey gets overwhelming really fast and exercise and mindfulness have helped me stay grounded through this process.

  And to @phosita_phoeatah's and @Ashley2018's point, it's frustrating to be stuck and in the middle of studying and see others achieve the outcome we desire. This is why I focus so much on the process (as I discussed with JY in great detail). Mindfulness helped me remain grounded in the process even when I wasn't seeing improvement. Hearing from other 7sagers about their journeys inspired me in my own, and also showed me how unique everyone is in their learning styles and best practices.

  and last note: one's ability to perform on the LSAT is not fixed. I'm not the first to say this, but it's a learnable exam! Our intelligence and ability to reason are shapeable qualities. Here's a book that helped me understand that yes, I could actually improve: https://www.amazon.com/Mindset-Psychology-Carol-S-Dweck/dp/0345472322
• 2 Likes

  ME_V_LSAT Member

  November 2021 1538 karma

  @lsatprepper2 I'm rooting for you. YOU CAN DO THIS! Moms are superhuman
• ME_V_LSAT Member

  November 2021 1538 karma

  @cpeaks13 lol I love your use of logic! it's just... so... logical!