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2 Likes
Retake a 176 for T3 and T6 merit scholarships?
pusheen32
Member
STEM major in one of the top tech institutions but no CAS GPA before December (haven't reached 60 credit hours). Cumulative GPA is 4.2 out of 4.3. Not a US citizen.
This is my second take. First one was in April, 174. PT-ing 175-180, average 178 ish.
My mom is so upset, I can't even believe it. help
Edit: I'm sorry if this post makes anyone unhappy. I know I should be satisfied with a 174 or 176. And I am. Family pressure for absolute perfection is another story, though. My mom is literally asking me to forget about law school. Go to work as a software engineer, she says. I am so sad.
Comments
I'm sorry about the family pressure that you are facing, but I'm proud of you for following your path. If you don't want to be a software engineer, then work hard to achieve your goal. Believe in yourself! Retake if you want.
Congratulations on the amazing score! I'm sorry you're feeling this way. I understand the family pressure. I've dealt with it myself. It's difficult, but I think you need to sit with yourself and figure out what it is you really want. It doesn't sound like you want to be a software engineer. Your parents may or may not ever be satisfied, so you might as well be doing what YOU want to do. I'm no expert, but with a score that high I think other factors will come into play. Who are you? What makes you interesting? It seems like you have all the right numbers to get money from the best schools, but what will you as a person add to the student body? I hope you are at peace with whatever decision you make. I really believe you're good no matter what you decide!
I am so sorry for what you are going through. Know that you did amazing on the exam, and do not let anyone tell you otherwise!!!I was also stem major (chemistry) and know how hard it is, so be damn proud of what you accomplished. A 174 is essentially perfect, so amazing job!!!
Okay this is insanity! Don't listen to the pressure of your family and be proud of how truly AMAZING you did. Anything upwards of 170 is an absolute GENIUS score. Don't brush off your great accomplishments due to the cynical nature of your family members- that is so sad your mom isn't literally rejoicing at how well you did. You are an LSAT master- take your score and run with it! You will get in to so many amazing schools... umm your GPA too?? You are an icon as far as I'm concerned. Sorry, mom! You did so great!!!! Never let anyone tell you different. Retake if YOU want to, but also remember how a third retake may look to schools after you already improved from a 174 to 176. Follow your dreams and be smart about it! Congrats in more ways than one!!!!
Hey there just wanted to offer some encouragement here. FWIW, once you get a 175, there is essentially no more marginal benefit from any further point increases. 176 is golden. It's above the 75th percentile at every law school and you have the same odds as someone who gets a 180. That plus the fact that your GPA is above all the 75ths as well = You'll definitely have a shot at amazing scholarships in the coming cycle!
Re: your mom. Honestly, unless someone has been on this LSAT journey themselves, they have no clue what it takes, nor do they have the right to dictate how you should feel. I also want to assure you that a 180 does not automatically make you a great law student. 180 students also struggle to stand out at HYS.
That is a crazy amazing score, congrats for all your hard work. You must have studied so hard to get that score - it's a job really really well done. Be proud of yourself! Also, I agree with @Mike_Ross comments entirely. In addition, any top law school acceptance - you can pretty much get whatever loan you need.
Also, on a personal note, and I'm sorry if this is an overstep - but as someone who graduated at the very top of my class in my business undergrad and also my econ masters at LSE etc etc... I can tell you that the family pressure never stops until you make it stop. It might be worth gradually starting to create some boundaries for yourself with your family so that your relationship isn't transactional and is more relational. I know parents sacrifice a lot for their kids, and expect a lot in return, but it's absolutely ridiculous that any parent is disappointed in a 176. Enough of that nonsense! You are doing such a good job in life and you deserve to be acknowledged for that, and be confident in that!
Do not worry another second, you are fine. You are literally already in the top 1%, and a STEM major (likewise), and you are over 4.0 in whatever field you are in. I would say stop worrying in any way whatsoever. I am wanting to go to #1 IP law school and would be satisfied with a 175 and my 3.7 GPA (my school only goes to 4.0). Keep in mind, if scholarships are your worry, that some Binding Early Decision applications do give substantial guaranteed scholarship as well. Although, with your record, I would already be expecting something even more. In my honest opinion, it is actually crazy that your family is upset with you. Both of your scores so far are in the top 1%. I really don't know how you can complain about that...
I don't know what to say without sounding really harsh , aside from your mom not "accepting " a 174, congratulations !!!!!!!! You did amazing work! This is your life, your decision, geez you'd think you scored in the 150's. Keep h=going and let no one discourage you from what you want, especially with your stats.
I am so surprised and touched by all of your warming comments. I can't believe how supportive the 7sage community is. Thank you. Thank you so much for your advice and encouragement. @ everyone who replied T_T
Based on your background, I think you should have 40% chance to score a 180 and 40% to score a178, so 176 is kind of unperformed. Also, in case you cannot get a full scholarship, you still can get a job first and save some money before go to law school.
My son has very similar background as yours, he graduated from a top institution last year and working full time as an software engineer. He's able to save $100,000 a year and will able to go law school next year even without any scholarship.
His GPA just under 3.7 but with 5 weeks preparation (1-2 hours a day at most), he able to score 178 (score received today). With your amazing GPA and similar background, you really ability to score 180 should be a little higher than 50%.
During the summer you should have more time to study. However, I would suggest you to think a little more about your options before you really take Aug test. The key might be: do you able to remove family's pressures from your mind and can 100% concentrate on the test day ? If in your mind, you still too care about what your mom's options and cannot focus on your goal (i.e.180), then maybe you should think twice.
I don’t think I have ever seen someone say getting a 176 is “underperforming”. This might be the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever read. How in the world can you estimate someone has a 40% chance to score a 178 or 180? From reading a few lines? Are you a troll?
OP, you’ve got a lot of support here. I want to just assure you again that you already have maximized your chances at the T6 with a score above 175 but if you want to go for a 180, go for it! But only because it’s a personal objective and not because it’ll marginally improve your admissions chances
Shuyu888 has only been a 7Sage member for 19 hours. That's....interesting...
176 is not underperforming - that's ridiculous.
so i would like to share something with you. My mom think women should find a job with average or even below salaries, and take care of family is women's priority. She doesn't care about my career development, my biggest achievement should from marrying a man. But I know from the beginning we have a totally different value. I do upset sometime but I won't give up something because she belittles it, cause this is an important mindset for lawyer isn't it, to stick to what you believe in and what you want to do
I completely understand family pressures but I doubt your mom understands the landscape and what your stats actually mean for you. If I were you, I would spend my energy crafting the best application you possibly can to supplement your incredible score, not on retaking the exam. I'm rooting for you and I know you'll prove your mom wrong very soon!
A 176 on the LSAT puts you above the medians at Harvard, Yale, and Stanford. That's literally all you need as far as test scores go.
Does your mother know this?
@Shuyu888
Your comment is ridiculous all around. Go away.
If I got that score and someone said that to me, 99% chance I’d cut them off for at least a few months, mother or not. Ik that can be impossible and harsh but in my opinion it’s impossible to please someone like this. Like… it’s one thing to say “could do better” and another to insist you should give up. I hope that you can make a decision based around what YOU think is best
Retaking a score this high can really only hurt you and not help you, IMO. I would not do it -
1) Statistically, the risk is a lot higher than the reward solely from the standpoint of "will I improve" - the difference between a 176 and 178 is one question. Charts published from LSAC have found that the majority of test-takers who retake a score above a 173 actually do worse on a retake. This is my LSAT-specific reason to not do this - speaking as someone who was consistently PTing in the high 170s but scored in the mid 170s, there's just too much variability on the real day (and even in PTs). This is borne out by conversations I've had with 7Sage colleagues who scored 180s, scored 175s, and everywhere within that range - I have colleagues who PT averaged a 175 but scored in the high 170s, who PT averaged a 177 but scored in the mid 170s, who PT averaged high 170s and scored in the high 170s, etc. Where you land on the real day is really, truly a matter of chance when 1-2 questions is all it takes - there's too much variability on the margins here.
IMO, the peak of LSAT excellence is hitting that benchmark of "I'm averaging somewhere from 175-180" - where you land in that range is just whether or not you had a good day or not. There isn't a difference between a 176 scorer and a 178 scorer, or even really a 175 scorer and a 180 scorer.
2) There's very little upside and in fact may be downside, even with a higher score. I'm not an admissions expert, so I'm very reluctant to offer specific advice here, but you're above all 75ths, so admitting a 180 or 178 vs 176 doesn't do anything for their numbers. Besides, the 75th isn't nearly as significant as the median because it doesn't go into ranking calculations - this is why retaking a 173+ is pretty much never worthwhile. Adcomms from top schools have also indicated in podcasts/on Reddit they frown upon people retaking anything above a low 170s/173ish score because they view it as an unhealthy degree of perfectionism that you feel the need to retake when already above medians. In other words, you getting that 180 won't help your admissions profile but could raise a red flag about "why did this person decide to retake"
I'm sorry to hear about the family pressure - that's frustrating, but I hope you can take comfort in the realization that it's not based on admissions facts - a 176 is statistically the same as a 180. But your scores are incredible and you have a lot to be proud of. Don't do something with little upside and significant downside.
@pusheen32 now we need to know what happened!!! lol Did you retake?
Sounds more like humblebrag unless it's real. Who with any sanity can say that 176 isn't good.
You should probably offer advice on how you did so well in the test, particularly RC. What's your approach, how much on average time do you take to read the passage and to do its questions, respectively on average?
Man, I can't even begin to tell you how much I love you. I'm in the exact same boat as this guy (got a 176, my parents where crushed), and I brought up literally every point you did, including the stat that 175 plus tend to do worse. I am so happy someone else send the exact same thing as me, can't wait to show my dad this. Thanks bro!
That is hilarious man, and pretty freakishly similar. I also got a 176, and my parents where also crushed, and my dad also suggested a different field, get this, software tech (he's a computer guy for Goldman Sachs, this was his big proof that I'm making a big mistake). I would run through all the numbers I told him, but I see someone already did. Either way, just know 176 is great, and besides for there being no practical difference in college admissions there's also no difference in your skills; from 176-180 seems to just be a matter of luck/nerves. I was also averaging a 178. Best of luck, and hopefully your parents will come around (mine aren't), but regardless, be happy with it. You did great!