Some opinions needed: Taking PTs 1 - 75 under timed conditions

goalis180 · July 2015

My plan is to take every single PT(1-75) under timed conditions, BR every single questions on every single PT, designating notebooks to BR, meaning write out an explanation for every correct, and incorrect answer. With this, however, I will not be doing timed sections, rather my timed sections will be PT's. After every 5 PT's I was planning to create my own PT with the questions I got wrong from all 5 PT's, as well as games I did not score a -0 on. Do you guys think this is a good idea for studying, and perfecting my abilities to dominate this test? I know this sounds like a bit much, and the burn out is prob real, but I feel like to truly get a 180 you need to transfer all of your energy into this test, and this is what I am planning to do. I should mention my LSAT administration is in December.

The second thing I wanted to ask about is the SuperPrep by LSAC. Is it worth purchasing?

c.janson35 · July 2015

Sounds like a solid plan. You'll probably find that you won't need to write explanations for every question after a little while, and that continuing to do so can really make BR feel like a chore. Don't get me wrong, articulating why an answer choice is right/wrong is key, but you may eventually find that actually writing them down over and over will get old fast. As long as your game, though, it shouldn't be a negative decision.

Also, good idea about putting together sections of missed questions. It might be most beneficial to re-visit them once a good amount of time as elapsed so that you aren't just remembering every question--at least a couple weeks, but I would shoot for more.

Finally, I like the idea of the SuperPrep because you can see how the creators of the test justify right and wrong answers, which you may find beneficial too.

goalis180 · July 2015

@c.janson35 I was thinking the same thing about articulating every single one, and how daunting the task would be, but I was reading a psychology book titled "Managing Your Mind," and it is really emphasizing repetition, and practice, for exams and it made me feel writing, even the obvious ones, over and over would make the answers second nature to me helping me see patterns in the correct answer choices in later tests. As for the SuperPrep, have you had any experience with them?

c.janson35 · July 2015

As long as the burden and tediousness of that doesn't start to weigh you down or kill your motivation to take and review PTs, then go for it.

And are you asking if I've taken the SuperPrep tests? I've taken 1 or 2 of them, and it's cool reading LSACs justification and seeing how they rate the difficulty of each question (1-5). If you are in need of more tests, then they're just opportunities to see fresh material. Especially SuperPrep 2 which has a previously undisclosed exam from the recent era.

goalis180 · July 2015

I agree,, and excellent, thank you for your prompt responses. Anymore responses still welcome as well.

Pacifico · July 2015

While I think your approach is on the extreme side, if you can handle it then go for it. I personally prefer the most recent 40 PTs for timed tests and the rest for drilling and adding 5th sections to timed PTs. The only thing I would definitely modify about your plan is that I would skip around. Maybe save the most recent two or three for right before the official test you take, but at least familiarize yourself with the newer dynamics before you get to the end of your prep. That way you shouldn't have a huge drop in your scores when you take the more recent tests.

goalis180 · July 2015

@Pacifico I was going to schedule my PT's so that the last few are near test day.

emli1000 · July 2015

I would try to focus more on PT 36+ instead of starting from 1. But depending on how much time you have go for it. Also, instead of writing your reasoning for each answer choice during BR I would recommend typing them out lol at first it may be a bit too much to write.

7sagelsatstudent180 · July 2015

@goalis180 When are you planning to take the lsat? Next June?

goalis180 · July 2015

@7sagelsatstudent180 I am takinv it in December. I know this sounds like a lot, but I quit my job, so starting september, I will be doing nothing but the LSAT.

7sagelsatstudent180 · July 2015

Oh wow... 75 tests plus br in that time is brutal but you can make a huge jump in that time... I will say brute forcing your way through tests won't make them increase. I tried it myself trying to prepare for the June lsat in 10 weeks and I ended up canceling... Honestly you probably could just do the last 40 prep tests and do just as fine because they are much more relevant to the modern lsat. Do all of the logic games in existence and use the first 30 preptests as 5th section for your pt... Just things to think about...

7sagelsatstudent180 · July 2015

Burnout is real but if you're plan was for June and maybe February it would be perfect.

LoraxMan · July 2015

I would agree to prioritize or at lease mix up the order you take tests in. If you start PTin at 1 and go up from there, you might not get to all the important tests. Try to choose a selection of tests given over the years with a focus on 30 or 36+, which will give you a better idea of how the tests change.

goalis180 · July 2015

hmm it seems that you guys think that is a lot for some reason. I was thinking in my head that if all I did was PT and BR, and maybe some drilling, I would be able to do 1 PT a day adding up to about 25-30 PT's a month, give or take if I decide to take a day break sometime. With that plan I would finish all of the Pt's right before my test date. I mean I will literally do nothing but the LSAT, I quit my job, and have pretty much all day everyday to just do LSAT, still sound like a lot?

The reason why I am doing all of this is because I do not want to practice like the average test taker and give myself the chance to not score in the 170's. I want to practice so that the amount of practice that I have under my belt, will give me every possible chance to score in 170's. My diagnostic was a 148, and this makes me feel like I am behind on everything. When I took my diagnostic I got a rude awakening. First, I could not last the three hours, I literally at one point just said "yup mhm this looks good," and moved on. Second, for some of the questions parsing the grammar was rough. Thirdly, although I knew argumentation, I only knew real world argumentation for example, to weaken an argument I attacked the premise, and not the relationship between the premise and the conclusion. With all that said I just feel like I am in this hole that I must escape from.

7sagelsatstudent180 · July 2015

What did you diagnose at? What are you currently testing at? Taking a test and fully reviewing it correctly is time consuming... After your first initial gain, it may take weeks to make a significant gain... You could easily burn 20 tests without a big gain (I personally had nearly 14 consecutive tests between 157-162 before I made my next jump). That kind of stuff is depressing and could impede your progress. Anyone can take a test a day but it's hard to grow that to a 180 in such a quick time. It's possible but you would have to be ready for things like that.

goalis180 · July 2015

my first ever PT was 148, and I have not taken another since. Also, I think you are right everyone could take a PT a day, but can everyone BR a PT everyday? That is probably a better question.

brna0714 · July 2015

Only you can decide if this study plan is the best fit for you but I'd urge you to consider quality and not just quantity. There is something to be said for repetition, especially as means of allowing for consistent performance, but the danger of reinforcing incorrect habits and concepts also exists. The LSAT is very taxing as you've discovered and taking a test every day (or even pretty much every day) for the next 60 days sounds like a recipe for fatigue even without a single additional obligation. Taking test after test under less than ideal situations (e.g. mental fatigue) can lead to the development of stop gap strategies and that's not what you want.

I understand the urge to want to do as much as possible. It feels good to be doing *something* and for a little while, my study schedule looked like the one you're considering. During that time, my PT scores plateaued. When I focused instead on one (possibly two) PTs per week with *thorough* review of not only the test but every single concept that I struggled with during the exam, my scores increased dramatically. This process sometimes takes days but it needs to be done. In total, I've improved 20 points over my diagnostic and am now averaging mid-170s. I didn't do that by trying to hammer out a PT every day of the week.

Your decision but you need to weigh both sides of the equation. Good luck to you either way.

c.janson35 · July 2015

@brna0714 now that you're averaging mid-170s, how many PTs are you taking per week? And how does you BR usually go since you're only missing maybe 6 questions?

brna0714 · July 2015

@c.janson35 - One PT per week. That admittedly won't work for everyone but I've found that it works best for me. I reprint the test and I retake the entire test untimed. If I am even a little shaky on a question, I watch the video and seek out explanations (Manhattan, 7Sage, LSAC Superprep). I also review the question type. I watch the corresponding videos, read chapters in the Trainer, etc. I print out copies of any questions that I miss and reattempt them once a day for the next few days, similar to the fool proof LG method.

Pacifico · July 2015

If you were burned out by your diagnostic then 1 PT/day is going to burn you out super fast. It also sounds like you need more work on fundamentals and relying just on PTs isn't going to reinforce those of they're not top notch to begin with. Furthermore, 1 PT/day will not give your brain enough time to rest and absorb the knowledge you gain from the test and from BR. Just as you need sleep and rest to build muscle after working out, so too will you need sleep and rest to let this knowledge sink into you. You say you want to study like nobody else in order to get a 170+ but that makes no sense since plenty of people score that high and nobody does what you're talking about. There are plenty of great study guides and schedules out there whether it's here, in the Trainer, on TLS, or elsewhere. All the best of those will warn about burnout and stress the need for sleep/rest. Stop trying to reinvent the wheel and just put in quality work for as long as it takes. Slow and steady wins the race in this arena.

7sagelsatstudent180 · July 2015

I also started at 148 and it took me 4 months to finally be able to consistently score over 164. I have taken 27 preptests and have retaken 65-72... I'll probably have taken and retaken 56-74 prior to October. I recently got my first perfect section on a fresh LR section and my first -1 on a fresh RC from an early test... The LSAT is a process. It's humbling but learnable... It didn't happen overnight and there was an extended plateau in there. Your plan is possible but it's hard for anyone to accomplish what you are striving for... 1 test everyday for 75 days is hard. 1 BR everyday for 75 days is hard. 101 question explanations per day is hard... You're trying to do all three... Good luck!

gs556 · July 2015

I attempted a similar feat. I worked from 9-75. With the benefit of hindsight, I would've liked to adjust my preparation to include less PTs and more areas of specific focus. While taking PTs gave me an amazing intuition and stamina for the test, focusing primarily on PTs did have two drawbacks: (1) I didn't have the study time to drill specific question types that were weak areas for me and (2) While I enjoyed the test, I found keeping the mental focus through 50+ PTs was a huge task. Good luck!

gs556 · July 2015

Also: I would recommend having at least one day between each PT. I would take a PT one day and BR it the next day. PTing and BRing the same day seems inefficient from a learning standpoint. Your mind will be too weary to really benefit from the BRing and BRing is as, if not more, important than PTing.

gs556 · July 2015

One final tip: DO NOT WASTE PTs before getting the 7Sage curriculum down pat! If you're scoring below 160 I would say that you're better off working through 7sage material than wasting PTs. I spent a month making sure I had a thorough understanding and mastery of LSAT fundamentals.

goalis180 · July 2015

This is why I like posting these kind of thoughts on here, so much feed back it is amazing. Thank you everyone for the tips I will be sure to keep it in mind as I try to find what the best method of study is for me. I guess it will be best if I finished the course, took another diag, and made study plans around that.

goalis180 · July 2015

@7sagelsatstudent180 said:
I also started at 148 and it took me 4 months to finally be able to consistently score over 164. I have taken 27 preptests and have retaken 65-72... I'll probably have taken and retaken 56-74 prior to October.

What was so difficult that it took such time to score above 164? Hopefully this does not happen to me because 4 months is all I have left till the actual test.

nicole.hopkins · July 2015

@c.janson35 said:
Sounds like a solid plan. You'll probably find that you won't need to write explanations for every question after a little while, and that continuing to do so can really make BR feel like a chore.

Oh man, this is SO true. Don't get yourself into the "perfect at the expense of the good" trap. Burn. Out.

nicole.hopkins · July 2015

@goalis180 said:
What was so difficult that it took such time to score above 164?

It's just the nature of the curve and the curve-breaker Q's you have to get right. 165+ scores require a different level of mastery that is very difficult to achieve. Mostly it comes from a lot of exposure to tests (I'd say 20+ tests) to get to 165-170 and then even more to get above 170. You come to learn the sneakies and tricksies LSAT favors.

nicole.hopkins · July 2015

@gs556 said:
Your mind will be too weary to really benefit from the BRing and BRing is as, if not more, important than PTing.

Listen to this man!

7sagelsatstudent180 · July 2015

Mastering the test is hard. Only 7% of test takers score over 165. I was stuck at 159/160 for three months... A 165 means you basically miss 20 questions. I typically get -3 lg, -9lr, and -8RC... Three misses in logic games means either careless mistake, bad game board, or ridiculous game. I miss 4 or 5 question per LR section. Most of my misses are level 4 and 5 questions typically toward the end of the section. Reading comp I usually struggle on level 5 passages and comparative passages. I miss nearly all of the level 5 questions and suck at analogies. A 165 is an excellent score. If 50 people are taking the LSAT only 3 or 4 will get a 165 or higher... The LSAT is a deceptive test. After you miss questions and review you think you'll just do better next time. That's not how it works. Learning doesn't happen overnight. There is no magical button. There is no "Eureka" moment. If you score a 158 on a test and a 161on the next, you did a big thing. You made a significant percentage improvement. Also important to know is that everyone experiences a plateau. Everyone... 148 is a far way away from 165... But it's reachable.

brna0714 · July 2015

@7sagelsatstudent180 said:
Learning doesn't happen overnight. There is no magical button. There is no "Eureka" moment.

This is really valuable insight. As is this...

@7sagelsatstudent180 said:
everyone experiences a plateau. Everyone

Everyone struggles at different stages (trying to reach 160s, 170s, high 170s, whatever) but the plateau phase is par for the course.

7sagelsatstudent180 · July 2015

A 180 can happen too but it will take a Herculean effort... Absolute mastery of every concept and a little luck... A dinosaur game or !Kung woman passage can easily screw that up.

7sagelsatstudent180 · July 2015

@brna0714 hopefully that tidbit gets me a mentor handle...

I kid. I kid... Slightly

goalis180 · July 2015

Not to sound cocky, or overconfident, but I believe in myself, and my ability to learn and understand, I just have to practice hard, and study hard which I am doing, and will continue to do. I don't understand what "herculean effort" means, but if it means studying smart, and hard, then I agree. I am a huge believer in "you reap what you sow." A 180 is only out of an individual's reach if they perceive it to be.

c.janson35 · July 2015

Then go for it man!

7sagelsatstudent180 · July 2015

Good luck man (or woman). Just make sure you update us at the end of November with your last 5 PT average so we can see if you lived up to your own hype. You'll understand soon enough

7sagelsatstudent180 · July 2015

@goalis180 where did you go to undergrad?

ENTJ · July 2015

Quality over quantity.

goalis180 · July 2015

@7sagelsatstudent180 no hype bud just a positive mindset, read a lot of psychology, and some autobiographies of successful individuals, the emphasis on mindset, and belief in one's ability is tremendous. I went to my local state university, but I was not an academic in my earlier life, I was a partier.

c.janson35 · July 2015

Well you know what they say! Shoot for the moon; if you miss it'll be a long and hard fall down. Or something like that...

Good luck!

goalis180 · July 2015

lmaooo @c.janson35 epiiiccc.

ENTJ · July 2015

It wouldn't be a long and hard fall down...You'll just be meandering in empty space for all eternity.

Pacifico · July 2015

Depends how badly you miss...

7sagelsatstudent180 · July 2015

Does anybody personally know anybody who scored a 180? Highest I personally know is 174.

goalis180 · July 2015

@Pacifico LMFAOOOOO. Dam now I have to go overdrive, don't want disappoint my 7sagers.

goalis180 · July 2015

I know one person, but there are several on tls.

gs556 · July 2015

I scored one 180 and a few 179s during my PTs.

nicole.hopkins · July 2015

@gs556 said:
I scored one 180 and a few 179s during my PTs.

Congratulations!

goalis180 · July 2015

@gs556 you took the LSAT and scored a 173 correct?

notwilliamwallace · July 2015

@gs556 said:
I scored one 180 and a few 179s during my PTs.

Dangggggg...Congrats man!!

Chipster Study · July 2015

I looked it up the other day. There are about 170,000 LSAT scores reported each year on average and about 50 or so 180s. You may need something other than hardwork, but it will never happen if you don't start there. Go for it!!

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Some opinions needed: Taking PTs 1 - 75 under timed conditions

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