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What's the lowest ranked law school you would attend?
7sagelsatstudent180
Alum Member
Whats the lowest ranked law school you would attend and why?
Comments
My thoughts on law school is that it's a bonus right now. A law degree is much better than a Masters and I can get it for next to nothing. If the market was strong I would be studying for the MKAT not the LSAT. If you are going to go sub 100 and pay full price that is not good however if you are going for free then why not? again it's 100% situational.
Personally, I'm aiming for something in the T50. Ideally, I'd like to get into a T25, and would certainly lose sleep over not attending one of the top 25.
Why would I go to this law school despite its god awful ranking? A few of reasons:
(#1) I want to work in Texas once I graduate. I literally have zero desire to work anywhere else. (#2) It's located in the downtown area of a relatively large legal market (Houston, TX).
(#3) I should still be in line to receive some scholarship money from this school even if I drastically underperform on my Dec LSAT. (My GPA is currently at their 75th percentile)
(#4) I want to work in civil litigation once I graduate. South Texas College of Law has the #6 ranked trail advocacy program in the entire country, and a strong tradition with their moot court competition team.
(#5) It's a relatively old law school (founded in 1923; third oldest in the state) that has a large alumni network spread across Texas.
(#6) My parents are moving to the Houston area within the next 6 months and I could live with them while in school to avoid using student loans to pay for apartment rent.
(#7) I know 4 Texas civil litigators who are in their 40's and who attended this school. All of them have had relatively successful careers (by my standards) and are employed at respectable litigation boutiques in the Dallas area.
(#8) I already have a work relationship with a civil litigation boutique in the Dallas/Ft. Worth metroplex and have reason to believe that they would allow me to intern with them during the summer breaks after my 1L and 2L years.
I'm sure many on this forum will disagree with my opinion, but I think that if you have no desire whatsoever to work corporate law, and especially if you want to work in litigation, then it is not career suicide to go to a law school that has a lower rank. As long as you aren't paying sticker price, can network effectively, and graduate mid to top of your class you'll probably be fine long-term.
0 L's who post on online forums (TLS especially) who haven't even gone to law school yet love to act like your life will be ruined by going to a school like this. However all the Texas lawyers I've met personally tell me the exact opposite. At the end of the day I'm going to base my law school/legal career decisions off of what actual lawyers tell me, and not the opinions of some person posting online who most likely hasn't had any real world legal/law school experiences outside of studying for the LSAT.
I also spoke with a PD who is pretty high up in his career. He laughed when I told him the news that most people agree that law school isn't worth the time and money, unless you get accepted into a T20 school. His response was something along the lines of "Slap whoever the 'F' told you that" -not an exact quote.
I myself don't want to exclude the possibility of corporate...but there's an 80% chance that I'll avoid it.
P.S. I was also informed that many of the judges who I came in contact with went to an unranked school. However, I can't confirm this, but it wouldn't surprise me.
It's also a completely different world than it was even 7 years ago, to say nothing of 20 or 30 years ago when those folks likely went to school and got their jobs. Times have changed drastically and I guarantee you those folks who are saying everything is gucci haven't kept up to date with admissions trends, to say nothing of employment trends. Would you ask that same person how they funded their legal education? How could they even give you an informed opinion if they went to school at a time when you could pay your way through by working part-time? If the person you're talking to hasn't been unemployed in the last half-decade or so, why are you listening to them? And even if they were, at least they had experience - how can they possibly know what it's like for someone with no experience when times have changed so radically?
I'm not exactly a law school hater (as evidenced by my job, which involves sending people to law school), but nor am I an apologist for diploma mills. Think long and hard about what kind of risk you're willing to take with that $200,000 you're about to spend, and don't let the rose-colored glasses blind you to the realities of legal employment today. Are all those people telling you that everything will be fine willing to put their job offers where their mouths are when the chips are down?
Also I definitely agree with the analysis of the selection/confirmation biases above, but I still think reasons #1-6 and to a lesser extent 8 are valid reasons for considering a lower ranked school. Furthermore, I've never seen a ranked school (no matter how low the ranking) referred to as a diploma mill. I thought that term was reserved for the 50 bottom schools or so that never end up ranked... You know, the kind of schools that pay their students not to take the bar exam so as to keep their stats artificially inflated.
It sounds to me like this guy's got employment lined up, which fixes an awful lot. I would venture to guess that this is rather rare. I would also be wary of a "reason to believe" that you'd be allowed to intern (which it seems like is being assumed means that you'll be employed with them out of law school), though without knowing more I obviously can't say.
I'm not using diploma mill as a technical term. I just don't know what else to call law schools with employment prospects that dismal.
How would one go about screening ALL of a school's graduates and then figure out how many became successful? I've never heard of anyone doing this, but if possible would love to look at that data. I also never said that, "because it happened to them (lawyers I know who have been successful), therefore it'll happen to me." You're taking what I said completely out of context. All I was trying to do was make a point that TLS forum junkies who make blanket statements about how going to a lower ranked school is "career suicide" aren't necessarily correct.
I'm failing to see how unemployed law school graduates would give better advice than employed law school graduates.... Not every recent graduate is unemployed.
Where did I mention spending $200,000? I literally said that I would go to South Texas College of Law because I would (most likely) get scholarship money from them, and live at my parents house to save money until I graduated. South Texas College of Law's tuition is $28,890 per year at sticker price. ($28,890 per year X 3 years = $86,670). When you consider the fact that I wouldn't be paying rent, and that I would most likely receive scholarship money to attend I don't see how I would be paying anywhere close to the $200,000 total cost of attending you mentioned.
I realize @Pacifico already made this point, but If you're trying to imply that South Texas College of Law is a "diploma mill" then I think you're being a little bit harsh and over dramatic. I mean c'mon man the school is still ranked. I realize that you graduated from Columbia in 2010, which had to be one of the worst times to graduate law school ever given the state of the economy at that time. You truly do have the every right be pissed off and jaded about the legal market (which is how you're coming across in my opinion). Regardless I still respectfully disagree with a good amount of what you had to say.
Let me further clarify that I have zero desire to work corporate big law in New York City, Chicago, etc. I'm not trying to "make partner". I don't need 150k a year to feel like I have value as a human being. I just want to be a litigator and first chair as many trials as possible over the course of my career. I'm fully aware this will (most likely) not happen my first 3 or maybe even 5 years after I graduate. I'm okay with that. I know that I don't need a T14 or even a T25 law degree to do that. I've networked my ass off the past three years building personal relationships with lawyers who work in the same field that I want to work in (Recent grads and seasoned attorneys), and who work in my geographic market of choice (Texas). I've gotten my undergrad GPA as high as I possibly could. I've been studying for the LSAT for the past 8 months, and avg. out around 161-163 / BR 171-173. I'm not trying to cut corners or take the easy way out. I plan to go to a law school that will minimize my total cost of investment, but that will also prepare me to litigate in Texas. This was a topic about "what is the lowest ranked school that you would go to & why", not a "why everyone should just go to a low ranked school & why" topic. Everyone's situation is different, and I'm just trying to share mine in hopes that someone else can relate, and maybe even take something from it. I answered the guys question thoroughly and honestly.
With your numbers (depending on LSAT of course) you should apply to UT/SMU/Baylor/UH/STX, given likely free COL
Don't forget about Baylor! Nice cheap COL in Waco and I bet they'd throw some money at you.
Granted, it is T25 but I'm getting the feeling, as I only made the decision to go to law school less than a year ago and never explored other options outside the South, that it's skipped over. I'm not bitter at all, it's going to work for what I want to do with my life, but I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on why. Location? The South? Limited range to large cities?
Because they can tell you what 'didn't work' which is just as important to know as 'what did work.' They're going to the school you want to go to after all, and can probably shed some light on what to expect. Disclaimer: this isn't to say you aren't going to be successful: but it is to say that you should get an idea of what you're facing. I know when I was working at several different firms, we would often get applications from law students all over the city. There were two schools in particular whose applications were always tossed out simply because of the school they went to. no review, no call back, no second wasted. And these were schools ranked higher than the one you want to go to.
I'm not saying you won't get a job, but I am saying that despite all the networking you've done, be prepared for let downs. I worked with dozens of students who had said the same things you did: they made connections, networked their butts off, had all these attorney friends who would hire them, etc. Ultimately they all were brought on as unpaid interns and did bitch work, and in the end none of them were hired. Many of them had great scholarships, but by the time you graduate law school the one thing you want is a job lined up. If you don't have one, you're going to regret going to a lower tiered school because (and i've worked at top 14 law schools before) those students often get hired on the basis of their school name alone and many employers wont even review resumes/transcripts. Students who went to a top ranked school have it soooo much easier than the rest. I cannot stress enough the significant difference it makes. I worked at boutique law firms, I worked for public courts, and at big law. I also worked at three different law schools all ranking in different areas. I'm going to tell you something -- regardless of the workplace you're looking for/the career you're after, having a higher ranked school will make it easier for you because that is what these employers are looking for and it makes a much bigger difference for you to go to a higher ranked school than it does to have networked.
Again, it doesn't mean you're going to be unemployed, but approach your career prospects with a heavy dose of skepticism based off of the numbers, because they mean something to a lot of people who will be hiring law school grads. and if it means something to them, it should mean something to you.