June LSAT Takers

J.Y. Ping · April 2013

Hey Juners, if you have questions or comments relating to the June LSAT, please post them here!

Mark Tenorio · April 2013

What to do until 12:00? The June LSAT's don't start in the morning like the others right?

J.Y. Ping · April 2013

Hey Mark, you should get "warmed" up. Do an easy game, do a couple of easy LR questions. Old ones are okay.

Corina McIntyre · May 2013

How far in advance should we be hitting our target score before we take the official LSAT? (e.g. weekend before, month before...?)

J.Y. Ping · May 2013

Hey Corina, there isn't a set date for that. The most extreme example being my very first student ever who score higher on their actual LSAT than on any of their practice LSATs. Crazy right?

Anyway, personally I'd feel comfortable if within 2-3 weeks of the test, the average of the 3 PTs that are recent (in the late 60s as of this posting) is the score that I want.

Corina McIntyre · May 2013

J.Y., thank you for such a quick response!

Mark Tenorio · May 2013

Actually never mind. That was a mistake. Late registration is on the 17

Mark Robin · May 2013

I have the dubious distinction of having to take a very long train the same morning to do my exam at the University of Western Ontario (they didn't have any slots in Toronto); I would guess the best way to spend that time is, as you note, an easy game, refresh on the different quantifiers etc etc.

J.Y. Ping · May 2013

Hmm, maybe get there the day before and stay at a hotel?

Corina McIntyre · May 2013

What's the best strategy for timing/notations on the RC and LG sections? In the past I've written the start time + end time at the top of the first page (e.g. 8:30 - 9:05). But maybe its better to do that and have a set number of minutes per game/passage (and write on each game/passage, e.g. 9:05 - 9:13)? I know that I only have approx. 8 min per game/passage but it's just noting on the test/PT's that I'm struggling with. Being forced to use only an analog watch certainly doesn't help matters.

J.Y. Ping · May 2013

I'm also curious to know what others do. I keep track of time per game/passage doing exactly what you're suggesting. Marking the beginning of game and end of the game. My watch has a bezel, so my times are a little easier to tell.

This is the only way I have to discern which games are harder/easier.

Jason Borer · May 2013

I have a question about nerves. A month out, I am scoring where I want to score, but I have heard many horror stories of test takers scoring 5-10 points worse than their PT average. What are some tips in overcoming test day jitters/ being fixated on questions because "this is the one that counts". How did you and other high scorers deal with this? I have spent a year preparing for the LSAT full time and I reaaaally don't want to go to October!

Mark Tenorio · May 2013

Lol hey Jason, me and you are on the exact same boat. I've been studying since last year summer and I don't really want to take the Oct. one. I actually asked J.Y. about this earlier and he said the reason why people do worst on their actual LSAT is because they freak out during test day.

J.Y. Ping · May 2013

I've said this to Mark a couple times already, but Jason, read this lesson/blog post on "why you must practice skipping questions on timed LSATs". I explain in there why people freak out during the real test.

J.Y. Ping · May 2013

Also, this blog post: http://7sage.com/how-avoid-panicking-on-lsat/

J.Y. Ping · May 2013

Also this one: http://7sage.com/five-strategies-for-combating-lsat-anxiety/

Mark Tenorio · May 2013

Just to clarify...all the PT's up to 68 were the exact and actual LSAT issued for that month and year with no changes (except for the ones that say "item has been removed from scoring").

So whatever is on PT 68 was the exact same one that people took on dec. of last year?

J.Y. Ping · May 2013

Yes, that is correct.

Jason Borer · May 2013

For the June LSAT, say that we come across a killer game (mauve dinos for example). We quickly realize that this is going to be a time suck and the questions are going to be hard. At this point, I would skip this game and try and solve some of the more easier games first. However, now that I am back to the killer game, how should I approach it? Should I try and cut my losses and solve for 3 questions until certainty, or should I attempt all of them as to not put my eggs in one basket. I would love to hear peoples thoughts on this!

J.Y. Ping · May 2013

Definitely want to hear others' thoughts so I'll keep my comment short: if you usually finish all games on time with near perfect accuracy, I would modestly suggest that you approach the "killer" game figuring out as many inferences first then hit up the questions. I know it's all different under intense pressure. For example, when I PTed 68, I didn't follow my own advice. I brute forced my way through one of the games.

Mark Tenorio · May 2013

I brute force my way through all the games also. If for some reason I know that a certain game is ridiculously hard, I diagram it as best as I can and then just answer the questions by forcing each answer against the rules.

J.Y. Ping · May 2013

You still practice/Fool Proof Method by solving for all sub-game boards (if reasonable) and making as many inferences as possible right? Like the way I do it in the videos?

Monsura Sirajee · May 2013

I have been taking a practice test almost every other day for a month, but I don't really see a significant improvement. With less than one month left, what do you suggest is the best way I can use my time? My weak points are LG and LR. Should I slow down on the PTs and practice a bunch of LG problems? Any advice would be really helpful.

Mark Tenorio · May 2013

@J.Y. Yeah, afterwards I do the whole print out ten and keep doing it. I used to look at the video explanations but have not been looking at the video expl. anymore for the recent PT since they've been a repeat lately. Usually, I'll just look at the intro to see if there could have been a better layout.

For the sub-game boards, I'm wary when it comes to those because of that one PT (can't remember which). It looked really easy to draw all the game boards and I thought there would be like 4 max but ended up drawing way more than that and I knew it was a trap to get people to put a lot of time into that.

J.Y. Ping · May 2013

@Monsura, sorry you're not improving. If you're already using BR and FP and still don't see results, then maybe it's time to get a tutor. That's 7sage.com/lsat-tutoring/

@Mark, I was trying to say that during practice/FP, you definitely want to map out all sub-game boards and inferences to a reasonable degree. It gives you an overview perspective. During timed PTs, you just do whatever your instincts tell you to do.

Mark Tenorio · May 2013

O yeah definitely, thats what I do during the review method. Sorry, I didn't mean to say the sub-board game way is bad >.<. It was just that one rare case during the actual preptest I didn't get the outcome I wanted from it.

Youyang Li · May 2013

J.Y. --

How much does the writing portion at the end matter? Does anyone really "study" for it? IS there a way to study for it?

Pretty much everyone I know studying for the LSAT kind of just ignores this part... I know it gets sent to law schools and that LSAC doesn't grade it....I've heard that it's not that important since law schools know it's placed at the end of a tough, long test... and that they have a better example of your writing in your personal statement.

Also, is it okay to cross out words on the writing portion or use "carots" to write in phrases?

I posted this in a discussion, but thought I would write it here too. I wasn't sure how to delete the discussion post though..

J.Y. Ping · May 2013

I think you have a very good understanding of it. It's written, so cross outs and other editorial marks are to be expected.

I "studied" for it the day before the LSAT. Just make sure you make an argument for the position you choose (from the two given to you to choose from). Acknowledge possible counter arguments, assumptions made, etc. and stay within the bounds the question sets out. Basically use the skills you've learned to analysis LR arguments and apply them to your own arguments.

I know admissions officers say they read them, but they kind of have to say that.

JS · May 2013

At Flordyce University any student who wants to participate in a certain archaeological dig is eligible to do so but only if the student has taken at least one archaeology course and has shown an interest in the field.

I just want to transfer it to the formal logic:

(student who wants to dig--> eligible ) --> course + interest

counter-positive:
no interest or no course --> (student who wants to dig--> illegible)

Am I right to formulate this formal logic?

Mark Tenorio · May 2013

Hey Sunyuchencn,

I don't think you need the parenthesis. From my understanding, it is just an "and" statement in the necessary condition. I actually diagrammed the first sentence differently than you.

Students eligible--->course AND interest

contrapositive would be
/course OR /interest---> /students eligible

This is covered in http://7sage.com/lesson/advanced-andor-in-sufficient-conditions/ and
http://7sage.com/lesson/advanced-andor-in-necessary-conditions/

Adam · May 2013

Now that we're less than 3 weeks out, I'm moving into the more recent PTs. Do you think it's worth saving some of them in case you choose to write the October LSAT?

Doctor Who · May 2013

Is there a place where we can learn rules of thumb to split diagrams? From what I've been reading and watching so far, it's useful to split diagrams based on things that have to be true but give you limited options. For instance, splitting diagrams based on not-both rules.

J.Y. Ping · May 2013

@Adam, yes, save some! Like 3 from the 60's just in case.

@wu12345 I haven't come up with any, but maybe there are. There are way too many ways to split the master game board up into sub-game boards. Consider an In/Out game with a "not both" rule b/t A and B. You could split into 3 subs, (1) A in, B out; (2) B in, A out; (3) A and B both out. Do you do it? That depends on the other rules. If you can't push more inferences then maybe it doesn't make sense. But if splitting triggers a cascade of inferences, then you definitely split.

That's why it's so important to write out the sub-game boards as much as you can during review.

Doctor Who · May 2013

excellent. i like this a lot. I'm getting the sense your answer will be "practice," but do you have any specific suggestions for knowing if splitting will trigger a cascade of inferences?

J.Y. Ping · May 2013

@wu12345

Sunwoo Lee · May 2013

Hi, this is not really about the test itself, but the info about the test...

1.are we really not allowed to bring bags to the testing site?!

2. What time should I probably go(i know it says be there at latest 12:30 but should I be there earlier?) & what time will we get out (with the proctor reading directions etc..)?

3. If we want to cancel our scores, can we do it after the test (if so, how much time do we have for consideration) or do we have to cancel it at the spot?

Thanks!

Youyang Li · May 2013

Another question about test logistics:

Are analog --so one that shows the minute and hour hand-- (vs. digital) and non-beeping the only requirements for the watch we can bring into the test? I'm pretty sure that's all I found on LSAC's "Day of the Test" page...

My watch shows the date, similar to this watch (although this watch is NOT the one I have): http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AWPR22C?psc=1

And it is quartz-run, which means it has batteries, I believe... is that okay too?

Haha sorry, I'm just really paranoid about the situation as I rely heavily on my watch.

Deanna Hayes · May 2013

I have some questions about that as well.. I read the guidelines and all it says is 'analog watch' (non-beeping, non-electronic, etc).

I really want to get one of the lsattimers (www.lsattimer.com) because I think I'll be overall less anxious, but I'm a bit hesitant, because it's a timer and not really a watch... they say that it meets all the standards of the LSAT. Does anyone know anything about that?

Thanks!

Deanna Hayes · May 2013

Another question for you guys - the experimental section.... is it much different than what we are used to? I'd like to be prepared if it's REALLY different so I don't freak!

Mark Tenorio · May 2013

@Deanna

It's better if you just get a watch with a bezel http://www.amazon.com/Casio-MRW200H-1BV-Sport-Analog-Watch/dp/B005JVP0LE/ref=sr_1_6?s=watches&ie=UTF8&qid=1369513671&sr=1-6 . Before each section, all you have to do is turn the bezel (the outer ring on the watch with the numbers) and match up the arrow with the long hand. The numbers on the bezel represent minutes.

And from what I know, I don't think they tell you what section is experimental. Like if you get two analytical reasoning sections, you won't know which one is experimental and which one is scored. Don't know if this is true though.

J.Y. Ping · May 2013

Everyone should read this: http://www.lsac.org/jd/lsat/day-of-test.asp

A quartz, battery powered analog (meaning no digital display) is fine.

Score cancellation policy: http://www.lsac.org/jd/lsat/lsat-cancellation.asp

Youyang Li · May 2013

Thanks J.Y.!

The few days leading up to the LSAT, I'm planning on just doing some light studying. Individual sections and some review. I'm not going to take a practice test in the 4 days leading up to the test because I'd rather not burn out... would you recommend doing sections that are recent or are older sections okay (29-38)? In the month leading up to the LSAT, I've been using recent practice tests (57-65).

J.Y. Ping · May 2013

That's a fine idea. Do recent ones.

Jackson Mejia · May 2013

Hi J.Y any particular games that you would recommend we look at before the exam?

Doctor Who · May 2013

Hey JY, was wondering if you had any thoughts about maximizing focus and clarity of thought during the test. During blind review, I caught 4 mistakes - points I really could have used. Examining answers without the pressure of time increases my clarity of thought, but, obviously, I won't have that luxury during the actual test.

J.Y. Ping · May 2013

@wu12345 Um, coffee or cocaine? Sorry, that's a lame joke. Please don't take cocaine unless you're a badass rockstar.

We are error prone. I think Blind Review helps to uncover errors we're prone to and by bringing those errors up to the level of conscious awareness, minimize them. Meditation helps too. But at the end of the day, I think we have to accept that we are going to make errors. I still make errors. "People" who get 180s are actually robots.

@Jackson Yes, please look at Games from the late 50's and 60's. There's no point to emphasize or deemphasize any particular Game. The recent ones are all equally important.

Corina McIntyre · May 2013

Do you suggest re-setting your analog watch after each section so that you can visually see the 35 min countdown, e.g. 12:00 to 12:35? Or just writing start and end time (real time) at the top of each section?

P · May 2013

@Corina McIntyre I would reset my analog watch after each section, to 12:00. I would waste time doing math before the next section, if I were to write the start and end time.

Jason Borer · May 2013

Dang I just took the June 2012 LSAT and bombed it. I scored 7 points under my average... With the LSAT just a few days away, this is kinda unsettling... On games, I messed up because I read 1 rule wrong, and doing so messed up everything on that game and sucked up a lot of time. on RC, I spent too much time in the passages, and ran out of time before I even hit the last passage! I only missed 2 during the first LR section, but then games messed my mojo up so much on the last LR, that i went -6

Hopefully I can learn from this and get back to my average before June 10th! As for everyone else, now is the time to persevere! I once lost a wrestling match because I eased up in the last period when I had a comfortable 10 point lead, lets not let that happen to us!

Justin Giles · May 2013

""People" who get 180s are actually robots." Does this only count for the actual test day or did Deckard let my little secret out?

@wu12345 Even on the few prep-tests I got a 180 on, errors happened. As JY said, realizing when you've made them and minimizing their recurrence is the name of the game.

Doctor Who · May 2013

awesome thanks for the tips Justin and JY!

This might seem too basic for you, but what is your process for minimizing their recurrence? Is this where blind review simply comes into play? I find blind review works better for LG, where it's harder to remember the answers, than LR or RC...

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