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Study resource group for ESL and International students?

allison.gill.sanfordallison.gill.sanford Alum Inactive Sage
in General 1128 karma
Hey folks, is anyone here who is taking the LSAT with English as their second language interested in learning together? I've been hearing more inquiries about study strategies for people who encounter a significant language barrier with the test. Let's use this thread for ESL students to connect and see how much interest there is, in addition to sharing helpful strategies with each other.
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Comments

  • allison.gill.sanfordallison.gill.sanford Alum Inactive Sage
    1128 karma
    Anyone? Bueller..?
  • Not Ralph NaderNot Ralph Nader Alum Member Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    2098 karma
    I am struggling with language barrier as well but I am not sure it is significant. I do not read fast enough. Personally I believe subject familiarity provides a huge boost in confidence and speed. Listening to economist audio version each week while replacing TV time with reading classic novels helps a lot. Improvement is definitely possible specially in LG and LR, I started LR -11 untimed to --6 under timed per section in less than six months.I know there is still a lot of room for further improvement for me and other ELS students.

    That is what I did for LR improvement:

    1- Finished the curriculum
    2- Took at least half of PT 1-35 LR sections and BR them
    3- Went back to curriculum master high priority question types for me using 7Sage LSAT Analytic
    4- Slowing down while taking the test, it never helps specially for ESL because if I missed a word the stimulus might not make sense to you

    And give it some time to sink in after finished LR by at least ten days leaving. Meanwhile do the LG bundle and come back to LR later.

    Hope this will help.
  • AlejandroAlejandro Member Inactive ⭐
    edited April 2016 2424 karma
    English is not my first language (moved from Colombia when I was 18) but I think I'm at a pretty solid level of proficiency and don't consider it a barrier. I'm open to meeting with others, helping them, and even getting useful tips from the community as well! @allison.gill.sanford and @nader.parham where are you guys from?
  • Not Ralph NaderNot Ralph Nader Alum Member Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    2098 karma
    @Alejandro I am from Iran it would be great if we could meet over Skype if it is o with you?
  • jennilynn89jennilynn89 Alum Member
    822 karma
    I would love to meet up and talk about the language barrier! I was born and raised in Germany, and moved to the U.S when I was 20. To be fair, I did grow up bilingual, but did not immerse myself into the English language in depth until I made the move and had to take a couple of language and pre-college courses before I attended a University.
    Although I do believe that my English is very strong at this point, I can definitely feel the language barrier becoming a problem within the LSAT, specifically for RC. I love to read, and I read a lot, but I just can't seem to read all four sections and answer the questions fast enough.
    LR is also a problem for me, as I find myself stumbling over parts of the stimulus and questioning my comprehension abilities.
    I have Skype or Google hangout!
    @allison.gill.sanford is English your second language, or what inspired this thread?
  • AlejandroAlejandro Member Inactive ⭐
    2424 karma
    @jennilynn89 I'm in a very similar position! @nader.parham that's awesome. Yeah, let's meet through google hangout or gotomeeting or whatever. I'm free this Sunday to chat.
  • CocoZhangCocoZhang Alum Member
    476 karma
    Hi, English is also not my mother tone. I grew up in China and went to college in the US (and now working in UAE). I do not consider English as an obstacle right now (well I still need to improve vocabulary).

    What I did is to major in International Studies in college (I know this is not helpful)... I got to read a lot of dense papers and books.

    But I do think that, one helpful strategy is to read some English books. The very fact that you are reading English in length can help you gain more confidence. Further, the more English books you read, the easier you will find when switching from your mother tone to English in your mind. And reading some English books that are interesting and not very dense will certainly be easier then just dive straight into LSAT RC passages.
  • Grey WardenGrey Warden Alum Member
    813 karma
    English is my second language, however I do feel improvement in my comprehension abilities as I prepared for the LSAT, still I find myself stumbling in between a RC passage sometimes (the frequency has decreased though). I have been reading lots of articles regularly and it has helped. I will be happy to get together with others and discuss strategies.
  • allison.gill.sanfordallison.gill.sanford Alum Inactive Sage
    1128 karma
    Hey all, I just started the thread to gauge interest (English is my first language) because I've been connecting with some students through tutoring who are frustrated as a result of a language barrier on the LSAT, and I think we could use more resources specifically to equip anyone who is tackling this test without the major advantage of speaking/reading English from a young age. Great ideas on here already.

    @"Nicole Hopkins" can I schedule a community webinar for ESL and International folks? Maybe this can be our first sidebar webinar. What would be a good week for that?
  • jennilynn89jennilynn89 Alum Member
    edited April 2016 822 karma
    @Alejandro I like Google hangout! Sunday works great for me as well. Which timezone are you in?
    Would love for anyone else to join in as well!
  • AlejandroAlejandro Member Inactive ⭐
    2424 karma
    I'm on eastern time. This group seems interesting and I'm curious to hearing what people have to say about this topic
  • Not Ralph NaderNot Ralph Nader Alum Member Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    edited April 2016 2098 karma
    @Alejandro Google hangout is great! lets meet on Sunday
  • runiggyrunruniggyrun Alum Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    2481 karma
    Guys, I'd recommend putting the e-mails in a private message including the people in this thread, so you don't expose yourselves to spam bots trolling websites harvesting emails.
  • allison.gill.sanfordallison.gill.sanford Alum Inactive Sage
    1128 karma
    I'm with @Alejandro, would love to see what comes of this conversation. I'm on pacific time - maybe we can find a time to all get on a call.
  • AlejandroAlejandro Member Inactive ⭐
    2424 karma
    Alright people. How about this Thursday at 8pm EST?
  • Not Ralph NaderNot Ralph Nader Alum Member Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    2098 karma
    I can make it this Thursday at 8pm EST
  • jennilynn89jennilynn89 Alum Member
    822 karma
    Same, I can swing that!
  • AlejandroAlejandro Member Inactive ⭐
    2424 karma
    Awesome. I can lead this and the easiest for me is through GoToMeeting. Please pm me your emails and I'll send you an invite.
  • AlejandroAlejandro Member Inactive ⭐
    2424 karma
    you don't have to download anything in advance. just click my link and follow the instructions.
  • AlejandroAlejandro Member Inactive ⭐
    2424 karma
    Already had a few people send me their emails. I will send an invite tomorrow or Wednesday when more people do!
  • allison.gill.sanfordallison.gill.sanford Alum Inactive Sage
    1128 karma
    I can't make it to this call unfortunately, but here's some input from a friend of mine who also tutors with some very helpful advice pertaining to ESL students:

    "I would advise [ESL students] to focus on English language skills, vocabulary, and reading comprehension, perhaps even setting aside the LSAT itself. SAT and GRE reading comprehension passages can be good tools for English language learners (I think the GMAT ones do more harm than good), and daily reading of periodicals like the New Yorker, Harper's, Science, and other such publications is extremely useful (30 minutes to 1 hour per day of such reading is ideal, with additional time spent writing a summary or giving an oral summary to a friend/tutor). Vocabulary practice is very important, particularly drills on vocab that comes up frequently on the LSAT (this list is extremely exhaustive and can be helpful in helping students separate what they do know from what they do not, although premade lists on Quizlet do save time).

    As unfair as it is, ESL students are at a definite disadvantage on the LSAT, and law school admissions committees seem unwilling to do much to factor in ESL students into their decision-making process. I've also seen that ESL students are at a significant disadvantage in law school itself, because exams are almost exclusively essay-based, and I think ESL students should think about test prep as a valuable way to prepare themselves for law school itself. Generally, I advise at least 6 months for LSAT prep to ESL students, and this is based upon what I've seen in my work with many ESL LSAT takers."
  • AlejandroAlejandro Member Inactive ⭐
    2424 karma
    Thanks for the input. We can do it!
  • AlejandroAlejandro Member Inactive ⭐
    2424 karma
    Session done, thanks @nader.parham for joining! I hope it was helpful.
  • IDontKnowYetIDontKnowYet Member
    5 karma
    I just found the thread. It's too bad I missed it... I should have checked out the forum more often!
  • Not Ralph NaderNot Ralph Nader Alum Member Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    2098 karma
    @Alejandro thanks for the session it was helpful
  • allison.gill.sanfordallison.gill.sanford Alum Inactive Sage
    1128 karma
    @Alejandro could you send me a brief summary of the call via PM? I would love to hear how it went!
  • dennisgerrarddennisgerrard Member
    edited July 2016 1644 karma
    does this group still exist?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Free Trial
    54 karma
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • AlejandroAlejandro Member Inactive ⭐
    2424 karma
    Sean, I was on the same boat! Feel free to PM me and I'll try to help you out
  • ama.kpegbaama.kpegba Member
    edited July 2016 5 karma
    Hey Guys. English is my third language and I am taking the September LSAT. Reading speed is the problem I am facing in LR. Sharing your tips on how to improve that will be so helpful.
  • allison.gill.sanfordallison.gill.sanford Alum Inactive Sage
    1128 karma
    @ama.kpegba one thing you can do is increase your exposure to reading dense materials by reading sources like the Economist, doing that every day can help but it's a long road to actually increase your reading speed.
  • Grace...Grace... Alum Member
    edited July 2016 339 karma
    Hi, guys. I just found out that this group existed! I wish I knew it earlier. I came to the U.S. when I was 16 years old. I am also struggling with the reading speed. I find myself keep going back and re-reading it and it slows me down. It is frustrating as the improvement seem quite slow... Any help or tips would be appreciated.
  • allison.gill.sanfordallison.gill.sanford Alum Inactive Sage
    1128 karma
    The group is still pretty new and largely unstructured, I believe @Alejandro is the natural leader though. We can make it what people want/need so throw ideas out there!
  • AlejandroAlejandro Member Inactive ⭐
    2424 karma
    Hey everyone! I'm glad to set up a call with y'all to go over what I did to get past those difficulties. I got a 167 in June and really want to take the test again for that 170+ but don't know yet since that would be my 4th take and I've heard taking the LSAT 4 times isn't a good idea. Regardless, I'm more than willing to help out in anyway I can :). Let me know if you would like to set up a call, say, this Thursday at 6pm EST and I'll send you over a GoToMeeting invite :).
  • The AviatorThe Aviator Member
    69 karma
    @Alejandro
    Yes, I'd love to join the call, and I think I face more barriers than others since I'm very very ESL, maybe that could make others feel better about themselves?
    Will 7pm EST this Thursday be possible?
  • AlejandroAlejandro Member Inactive ⭐
    2424 karma
    Let's get more people involved. Please pm me your emails and we'll work out a time that is good for all of us!
  • bumdari1222bumdari1222 Free Trial Member
    2 karma
    Hello i just kinda wrap it up all commets if it is okay i would love to join your group and chats however i am not sure about wanting to take a SLAT test but i would really like to give a shot. I came in state when i was 19 still learning english conversation and understanding is okay but reading writing is a really bad i just wanna hang out and see what i can do next
  • Tina ChoTina Cho Free Trial Member
    442 karma
    Hi, I'm also interested in the meeting, is it still open? Is it OK if I just listen to what you guys talk?(are you using skype btw?) Thanks!
  • AlejandroAlejandro Member Inactive ⭐
    2424 karma
    not yet. Please pm me your emails and we will coordinate a day/time that works for all of us!
  • Tina ChoTina Cho Free Trial Member
    442 karma
    Hi! I PMed you, did you get my message? :)
  • AlejandroAlejandro Member Inactive ⭐
    2424 karma
    Just got the emails from @"Tina Cho" and @"The Aviator" . Doors will be closed on Saturday and will likely set up a call for next Monday or Tuesday so more people can join. Keep em coming!
  • AlejandroAlejandro Member Inactive ⭐
    2424 karma
    Got one more. Will send an email to all of you this Saturday to propose a few times to meet early next week. Hopefully I can be of help to you all!
  • diefor170diefor170 Member
    129 karma
    Please count me in!
  • 2017_20182017_2018 Alum Member
    46 karma
    Please also count me in thank you for the initiative!



  • 60 karma
    Hi, I am very glad to have found this thread! I am struggling with language barrier as well as English is not my mother tongue. To be honest, I speak four languages and did not learn English in depth until I decided to go to university in English and had to take few required courses to start my program.

    I love to read, and I read a lot, however, when doing PTs RC sections are where I struggle the most. I run out of time and question my comprehension abilities!

    Please count me in. Thank you!
  • allison.gill.sanfordallison.gill.sanford Alum Inactive Sage
    1128 karma
    @Alejandro please add me to the email about times, not sure I can make it but I would like to be in the loop!
  • Nima....Nima.... Alum Member
    18 karma
    English is my second language, but I don't think it hinders me a whole lot. I've found that I tend to screw up LR questions when I read over the premise super fast. SLOW DOWN when you get to the question. The conclusion/argument, as well as the answers, are easy enough to decipher quickly if you slow down and understand the author's logic and way of thinking. In my first practice test (and only one so far) I was going through the paragraphs way too fast. You lose the time you saved, and then some, by getting bogged down on the wrong answer choices.
  • AlejandroAlejandro Member Inactive ⭐
    2424 karma
    That's right @Nima.... !!
  • Not Ralph NaderNot Ralph Nader Alum Member Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    2098 karma
    @Alejandro Could you please add me to the email list?
  • dennisgerrarddennisgerrard Member
    1644 karma
    me 2
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