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# LG problems - In/Out Games

Alum Member
in General 822 karma
Hey everyone!

LG is generally my strength, but when it comes to In/Out games I absolutely bomb them every time (time-and strategy/diagramming-wise).
What have some of you done to improve on In/Out games to improve your accuracy and timing? Just doing certain games over and over again (basically fool-proof method?). I feel like I try to do that, but in the end I just memorize the answers and I don't get anything out of it after a while.

Would love to get your input!

• Member
edited August 2016 611 karma
I think redoing games loses its effectiveness past a certain point (for me, this is around 3 times) for exactly the reason you cite. There's really nothing that beats doing fresh games. If you're almost out, you can look for unofficial games via some LSAT prep course blogs; I know Manhattan has some self-authored games, and I suspect most of the big prep companies do as well.

I was also worse at grouping games than sequencing games, so I made it a point to cultivate good grouping game habits while practicing, such as paying special attention to whether the out group is full or making it a point to make big inferences upfront (e.g. If A cannot be with B and A cannot be with C, and if there's only one out slot, you automatically place B, C in and A out).

I personally think grouping games are more difficult than sequencing games because you need to rely on your working memory for the former more than the latter; a proper diagram makes most sequencing games trivial, but even with a good grouping diagram, you usually still need to remember that if A is in, B is out, and that one of C and D must be in, and so on. Unfortunately, I dunno how to train working memory, and some sources I read suggest that this is just developed in childhood, but maybe you'll have better luck researching this than I have. I think this is why it's important to do big inferences upfront, so that you have fewer pieces to juggle in your working memory.
• Member
10 karma
Because you said you're bombing them diagram wise I would strongly recommend that you go over the material.

They aren't that hard to diagram.

There's conditional logic, you link that together, then you have your inferences (i.e. Or relationship). If you're not doing that together go over the lessons again.

The rest of it is easy you have two groups any time it's just two it's In/Out.
• Alum Member
23929 karma
I find myself messing up with in and out grouping games and they are still my biggest weakness. What I have found that has helped (aside from the Fool proof method) is to review your logic lessons and just the lessons on grouping games in general. J.Y. has a really clean way of doing these with no gimmicks.

Also, it is good if you a memorizing the inferences and answers when you fool proof games! That is part of the reason why it is so effective. You see, many games are so similar that the only thing that changes are little things like names, days of the week, numbers, etc. But by memorizing the inferences and answers you will be able to apply them to new games that are similar which you are bound to run into.

So keep fool proofing!
• Monthly + Live Member Sage 🍌 7Sage Tutor
27529 karma
I've found that recognizing when to split is particularly important for In/Out. If you split when you shouldn't it's going to be a huge mess. If you don't when you should, it's going to be a huge mess. If that's part of your issue, maybe take a look at that and see if you can better identify when and when not to split the board.
• Alum Member
23929 karma
@"Cant Get Right" said:
I've found that recognizing when to split is particularly important for In/Out.
This is so damn true. There are times/games where splitting or not splitting is the difference between finishing the game in 13 minutes or 7 minutes.
• Alum Member
edited August 2016 822 karma
Thank you all so much for your input!!!
@quinnxzhang I'm the same way, if I'm done a game about 3 times, I'm pretty much done and nothing sticks anymore. I'm trying my best to cultivate good grouping habits, and will probably have to refer back to JY's lesson's a couple of times.

@brianabbott1987 I wish the games were as easy for me as they are to you

@"Alex Divine" Thank you for the advice, I'm definitely going to go ahead and review JY's lesson's a couple more times until it sticks. Maybe flash cards will help too.

@"Cant Get Right" Yes, splitting is a huge issue for me! It takes a little too long for me sometimes to recognize when I have to split and how many diagrams I need to create and then the whole ordeal consumes waaay too much time. I think it's that and then also needing to get better at recognizing bigger inferences and adding those to my diagram to make things easier on myself. Anytime I watch one of JY's explanations I end up having a total "duuuuhhhh" moment!
• Free Trial Member
71 karma
I just posted a new idea that is especially intended to help in/out games. Look for my "better than a double not" post.
• Monthly + Live Member Sage 🍌 7Sage Tutor
27529 karma
Yeah, I'd bet that's a big part of your overall struggles @jennilynn89 . I know there's a webinar on splitting by I think Corey. I haven't actually watched it, but probably worth checking out.
• Member
10 karma
@jennilynn89 You'll get there. I spent a couple weeks focusing on them.