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Need assistance with some grammar around sufficient and necessary conditions (noun, predicate verb)

Mr.lopezMr.lopez Legacy Member
in General 172 karma
I hope I can explain this
1)I fully understand how to convert any sentence into Sufficient and Necessary conditions
2)Where I am having problems is identifying whether the sentence is supplying sufficient conditions for something or if it is supplying necessary conditions for something
3)What I am hoping to understand is the actual grammar breakdown for why it is the way it is
4)below are some examples from a book. what makes a sentence a "sufficient sentence" and what makes a sentence a "necessary sentence"... is it based on "what the main subject of the sentence is" is it based on the predicate verb? what is the actual fundamental grammar rules that dictate this. Yes i know if you say it out loud you would figure it out. but I am trying to understand from a pure grammatical perspective. Thankyou


You don’t deserve praise for something unless you did it deliberately
Deserve Praise for something --> you did something deliberately
Necessary condition
Doing something deliberately is a necessary condition for deserving praise for something


If you do something deliberately then you deserve praise for it
Do something deliberately ->you deserve praise for it
It would be saying that doing something deliberately is a sufficient condition for deserving praise for it

Comments

  • brennanbrennan Member
    50 karma
    I don't really understand what you're asking.

    Those sentences mean exactly the same thing.

    "P is a sufficient condition for Q" means exactly the same thing as "Q is a necessary condition for P".
  • Giant PandaGiant Panda Alum Member
    274 karma
    A focus on grammar will defintely pay off, especially when you are doing...almost all difficult level questions.

    What makes something SA or NA depending on the signal condition that the sentence gives. In the 2 examples you give, If is group 1 and what is introduced after is a sufficient condition. Unless is group 3, so that is a negate then sufficient. So pick either one idea and negate it and make it a sufficient.

    If you are asking for what makes something sufficient sufficient, then try to think about this. A sufficient condition guaranteed for the necessary condition to occur. In other words, the sufficient condition is like a hand bomb. Once you pull the trigger, it will just blow up. And the necessary condition is needed but if you pull it away, the sentence logic doesn't fall apart.

    To use an example by using an AK-47. (I am not a gun or military person, but it is just an very good for imagination).

    Sentence: If I pull the trigger of an loaded AK-47, the bullet will fly out.

    So in this case, the sufficient condition is that you pull the trigger. And in this gun, the bullet is flying out. Pulling the trigger is what gives the bullet flying out.

    Is this what you are asking?
  • Mr.lopezMr.lopez Legacy Member
    172 karma
    i dont know how else to explain this and this is right from lsacs book

    If you do something deliberately then you deserve praise for it
    Do something deliberately ->you deserve praise for it
    It would be saying that doing something deliberately is a sufficient condition for deserving praise for it


    you would say that this sentence EXPRESSES " the sufficient conditions for deserving praise for something"........ you would not say that this sentence "expresses necessary conditions for doing something deliberately"


    This is a fine point that I think a lot of people are missing, and I am trying to track down the exact way of knowing this. is it based on where the major subject of the conditional is
  • SamiSami Alum Member Sage 7Sage Tutor
    10721 karma
    @Mr.lopez said:
    If you do something deliberately then you deserve praise for it
    Do something deliberately ->you deserve praise for it
    @Mr.lopez said:
    you would say that this sentence EXPRESSES " the sufficient conditions for deserving praise for something"........ you would not say that this sentence "expresses necessary conditions for doing something deliberately"


    The sentence above both expresses both a sufficient and necessary condition. We have one of the sufficient condition that might lead someone to deserve praise. We also have one of the necessary condition stated in the sentence for doing something deliberately, because as soon as you do it, you deserve praise for it.

    I think a better way to see this is to understand the nature of the relationship between sufficient and necessary condition. There can be many sufficient condition for the necessary condition for deserving praise and doing something deliberately happens to be one of the sufficient conditions for deserving praise. And as soon as you do something deliberately you have to conclude that it deserved praise. Also the contrapositive relationship needs to understood here as well.

    I am not sure If I am missing the question that you are asking me. But I feel like you are stating that you cannot say that the sentence above expresses a necessary condition for doing something deliberately; but it does. That necessary condition is that you deserve praise for it. But its possible that its not the only necessary condition for doing something deliberately.


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