Reach, Target, and Safety Schools

Comments

• 1 Like

  texvd1988 Member

  January 2017 605 karma

  That's dependent on you. Reach and safety schools are fully dependent on your LSAT and GPA from undergrad. If you have an LSAT of 165 and a GPA of 3.5, you can probably consider a top 10 a reach. A top 14 a possibility. And anything outside of top 30 a safety.
  
  If you have an LSAT of 155 and a GPA of 3.5, you can consider any top 14 program a reach. A top 70 program competitive. And anything outside of top 70 safety.
  
  This is not to mention splitters. If you are a low LSAT/ high GPA or vice versa splitter, it behooves you to have a really high split to compensate for your low end. Though it is better to have a higher LSAT than GPA for a splitter.
  
  For instance, I have a 3.2 GPA- this basically kills my chances for a Top 6 program, but I can still be competitive in a top 14 to 7 program so long as my LSAT hits at or above a 170. This basically applies to a top 20 program. I have seen that anything from top 50 to top 20 will basically let me ride out with an LSAT score between 158 to 165. In my case, a reach would be a t14- 7, I would be competitive in t60 to t 20, and safety would be anything lower than top 70 probably.
  
  You can actually look at this on LSAC. They give you your probability of getting in dependent on your score.
  
  
• 3 Likes

  SherryS1 Member

  January 2017 477 karma

  I think a good rule of thumb is:
  
  Safety: LSAT & GPA at/above 75% percentile
  Fit: ... between 25% and 75%
  Reach: ...at/below 25%
  
  Of course there are many acceptances and rejections that happen outside of this framework. A good number of them occur with splitters which I think @vduran1988 spoke to well.
• 2 Likes

  combsni Free Trial Member

  January 2017 652 karma

  It also depends on the strength of the given year. Right now, most admission councilors I have talked to have claimed that the percentile rule doesn't really apply right now. A lot of them have said that it ultimately depends on the individual circumstance
• texvd1988 Member

  January 2017 605 karma

  @combsni
• texvd1988 Member

  January 2017 605 karma

  can you elaborate please? What do you mean percentiles don't count?
• texvd1988 Member

  January 2017 605 karma

  If that means that many schools aren't necessarily getting great applicants so are shirking their standard 25/75 splits than hurray!
  
  That was one of the things I noticed about my MBA. I got into a really goodt b-school but my numbers were slightly below their averages.
  
  I assumed that the application pool wasn't that strong back then.
  
  I don't mind riding that wave again.
• cam Alum Member

  January 2017 349 karma

  The others have pretty much nailed it, in my opinion.
  
  I think of safety as schools where your GPA and LSAT at or above the 75th, target where the numbers are median, and reach where they are between the 25th and median.
  
  Depending on your specific circumstances, you could have an unpredictable cycle. I know that I will have an unpredictable cycle. I'm going to be a splitter no matter what. I am still finishing my undergrad (graduate spring of next year), but due to messing up around ten years ago, my maximum LSAC GPA is a 2.9-3.0. If I keep the current trend in my grades up, I'll have between a 2.83-2.9 LSAC GPA. LSAT-we shall see how that goes. I'm PTing 160-163. The bonus tidbit is that I'm in the military. Those two factors (splitter plus military) leads to my belief that I will have an unpredictable cycle.
  
  Here's the article that I read on the topic. http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/law-admissions-lowdown/2014/11/03/how-to-apply-to-the-right-number-of-law-schools
• stgl1230 Member

  January 2017 821 karma

  This cycle does appear strange, BUT it is still early in the cycle and most T-14s haven't sent out big rejection waves yet. Things might even out, but the cycle does appear to be moving along slower than usual.
  
  Weirdest cycle I have seen so far is Cornell. They've literally murdered their applicant pool. They have flat out rejected a good number of people that have the numbers for their school, looks like they are trying to raise median GPA. Definitely not splitter friendly right now.
  
  That being said, I would still stick by the safety = above both 75ths rule, fit = within 25-75 (but probably more between 50-75 for top schools), reach = below 25ths. It still doesn't hurt to apply to reaches, especially if you have a fee waiver, but I wouldn't bank on any counter-cycle magic when making your application decisions. Good luck!
• stgl1230 Member

  January 2017 821 karma

  @vduran1988 said:
  If that means that many schools aren't necessarily getting great applicants so are shirking their standard 25/75 splits than hurray!
  
  

  I think I read somewhere that LSAT scores are actually up across the board, but I might be mistaken. I think the issue isn't that schools aren't getting great applicants, but that application numbers are down. Not the quality of the applicants.
• texvd1988 Member

  January 2017 605 karma

  @stgl1230 that works just as well then. And when you say a 25 percent reach do you mean both categories in he 25 percentile?
  
  What if you are below the 25th percentile gpa wise for most schools in the top 50, but in the 50 to 75 percent via lsat score?
• stgl1230 Member

  January 2017 edited January 2017 821 karma

  @vduran1988 Below both 25ths definitely constitutes a reach.
  
  If you're below just one 25th, I'm not sure if that's a reach or not, it depends where your other number is, how competitive the school is, and how your softs are. For example, if you're applying to Harvard and your LSAT is below their 25th and your GPA is between 26 and 50, that's probably a reach. But the same situation at a different school, maybe a regional school, may be less of a reach.
  
  Like @cam said, being in the military, being URM, being international, anything non-traditional, etc. can make a difference on your cycle and what constitutes a reach when you are below 25th for one number but somewhere in between for the other.
  
  As for being below 25th gpa, but in the 50th to 75th for LSAT for some schools, again, it depends on the school. You can definitely get into many top 50s that way. But if you want to be in the T14, you most likely need to be (well) above the 75th LSAT percentile, especially if you want any form of scholarship.
  
  I believe being under the 25th GPA and over the 75th LSAT means you are a "splitter."
• federico.giustini360 Member

  January 2017 62 karma

  @stgl1230 what would you consider around the 25th percentile for LSAT and the 50th percentile or median for GPA? Is that considered a reach prospect? Is there a way to quantify a person's chances in this scenario? I am talking about mainly T14 schools.
• stgl1230 Member

  January 2017 821 karma

  @federico.giustini360 said:
  what would you consider around the 25th percentile for LSAT and the 50th percentile or median for GPA? Is that considered a reach prospect? Is there a way to quantify a person's chances in this scenario? I am talking about mainly T14 schools.
  

  Hi there, I'm by no means an expert on any of this, and I tend to be a bit conservative (as to not get my own hopes up), so take that into account. I would say 25th percentile LSAT and 50th GPA is definitely a reach for T14s. I don't know anything else about you though - if you're URM, that'll boost your chances, but if you're non URM and straight out of undergrad you are definitely at a disadvantage here.
  
  If you haven't looked yet, you can check lawshoolnumbers to see a graph of acceptances (and all sorts of other data) at various schools to see how people with your stats do. Keep in mind though, that law school numbers is all self-reported so the data isn't perfect.
• 1 Like

  federico.giustini360 Member

  January 2017 62 karma

  @stgl1230 that makes a lot of sense, I was leaning towards thinking that way about the situation. Personally, I am 6 months out of school in a finance related Analyst position. I'm hoping that and my essays can put me over the top, even if it happens after being waitlisted.
  
  I have been checking lawschoolnumbers and it seems like getting in through the wait list is the likely way into a T14 school. But I guess I'll just have to wait and see when the decisions are made.
• combsni Free Trial Member

  January 2017 652 karma

  @vduran1988 basically that they are giving more weight to things like personal statements. A lot of school's need more students, even within the second tier.
• texvd1988 Member

  January 2017 605 karma

  @combsni welp. That works for me