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Dumb Question - What's the deal with the T14 threshold?
I understand the importance of getting into a top law school, but why does the 'golden marker' seem to be T14 or higher? What I was hoping would be my 'safe' school (pending LSAT scores), Georgetown, just dropped to #15 on the 2018 list. Are the best, most notable schools really only 14 and above?
Comments
No idea but I don't think so. I don't really believe anything is a golden marker though. Just do your best. And NOTHING is ever a dumb question!:) Good luck with your prep!!
It's become an arbitrary cutoff. In the past, those who attended a T14 had a reasonable expectation of getting a biglaw job, but that is no longer true.
The T14 is based on the US News and World Report Law School Rankings. Since the inception of the rankings, the top 14 schools had never dropped below 14 in the rankings... until this year. So, technically there could now be a "T13" of schools that have never dropped below that rank.
This is correct. The T14 are those schools that remained consistent in the ranking since the inception of US News Reports. They also tend to be the schools where clerkships and big law positions (employment in general) is better. Because they are better funded you are likely to get world renowned professors in their field of study and meet the future leaders of the world.
Thanks @"Alex Divine" this is VERY helpful. Good info to know. My goal was to land a T14 school and after your explanation, I think I will stick to that goal ;-). Thanks again!
@tringo335 thanks for asking this question!! I've wondered this as well but did not even think to ask it on here! This is so helpful.
^ check out the video. Minute 1:05 onwards answers your question directly, I think. The employment prospects plummet, almost drastically, after T15 (especially in big law jobs). I suppose that's why the fixation on the top 14/15 law schools. I believe in previous years, the gap between the 14th and 15th position was also a noticeable amount - and that's why people have traditionally fixated on going to a T14 specifically.
Just because a school is a part of the T13, doesn't mean it guarantees the best outcome for any given situation. Certain schools place better in biglaw outside of the T13 than some schools inside of the T13. This can also be applied to government or regional placement. Make sure to check employment statistics for any given school for whatever market you want to join.
See this website for details on placement : https://www.lstreports.com/national/
@thisissparta THANK YOU! This really added to the thread and helped tremendously. I've read up on the stats re: top schools but it was very helpful seeing it all in one place (and graphics are always a plus :0)
@Mellow_Z you are definitely right, getting into a T13 doesn't guarantee the best outcome, but it certainly does seem to help!
No prob @Ellie0257 ! I just started using 7sage a couple weeks ago and I'm finding the discussions immensely helpful. Glad you found the thread useful!
i guess i'll never be harvey specter
@"theLSATdreamer " Why is that?
@tringo335 I finished college while in the army, my gpa is not exactly T14 material, and honestly the school im going is a good fit because it gives veterans tuition waiver and its number 56, (number 11 for the night program) but its ok
i'll get a 180 and theyll love me at yale haha
I wouldn't write yourself off because of your GPA. If you knock the LSAT out of the park, there are plenty of splitter friendly schools (Northwestern, UVA come to mind primarily - Mich and Duke have shown some love as well as an occasional Penn acceptance). I'm a super splitter myself (sub 3 GPA - have an addenda for that, but the harm is done). We just have to get >75% LSAT's, turn in spotless LoR's, PS's and essays, and apply early. WUSTL is notorious for giving full rides to high LSAT's with low gpas (172+), and that can easily be used to leverage scholarship money at NW/UVA/etc.
I would say the biggest [possible] thing holding you back is that a lot of the T13/T1's don't offer part time programs. If you are going for a Harvey Specter career, are you aiming for corp law? M&A? both of those will be heavily dependent upon where you graduate from (to get into Biglaw). So if that is your goal I wouldn't settle for anything less than T13 or a regional T20 depending on where you want to work; Cali/Chi/NYC/DC/etc
If you don't mind me asking, what range is your GPA in? 2-2.5, 2.5-3, 3-3.5?
Ha! VERY hard to argue with a tuition waiver! Shoot for that 180 and maybe Yale will give you a free ride too. My GPA isn't the best either. I'm shooting for a 'splitter' with an LSAT in the 170s (studying hard for that!). Yale is my absolute DREAM SCHOOL. I would cry a thousand oceans if I actually got in. I know it's a long shot, but hey a girl can dream can't she ;-)
Unfortunately Yale doesn't give out merit based scholarships. They do give some financial based assistance however, but I'm unaware of the scope of what they give out.
Either way, a mid-high 17x LSAT will get you full rides within the T14, so keep studying!
@tringo335 @Mellow_Z oh easy then, i'll get a 178 maybe 179 if I'm not too fatigued lol, and then I will pick and choose which t14 school i will go to, dazzle them with my personality on the letter that describes the level of awesome i could bring to their student body and they will beg for me to stay there.. easy enough Yale here we go..
With the exception of a few lower tier schools like Creighton, almost all of your Supreme Court clerkships come from schools in that range. For the most part, if you go to one of those schools it will be much easier to get into big law as well. Not that people from tier two and three schools don't make it into big law they do but it is much more difficult. That was one of the main things that swayed me towards attending the University of Chicago as opposed to Notre Dame, McKinney in Indianapolis, and other schools.
No dumb questions! As a meta-discussion (since everything here has been answered already lol) I really think we are going to see a rise of the T13. Georgetown has incredible lay prestige but they don't have the best placement even in their own market. The school is in a weird place geographically and there is crazy highway construction going on there for the next four years. And students aren't happy about it either (obviously).
Interestingly enough, I think this is the only the tip of the iceberg and we will see it fall further. But it still doesn't change the fact that Texas and UCLA can't (at least now) make up for the alumni and career prospect GT has had. It's weird. It will take time. But I am a fan of change and there is definitely some in the air.