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"The only" translation "and" "or"

akistotleakistotle Member ⭐ 🍌🍌
edited May 2017 in Logical Reasoning 9382 karma

"The only songs A has written are B songs and PR songs"
(PT73.S4.21. https://7sage.com/lsat_explanations/lsat-73-section-4-question-21/)

I translated the sentence as:
A --> B
A --> PR
(A --> B and PR)

But then I realized it has to be "a song A has written has to be B or PR".

A --> B or PR

I was able to pick the correct answer choice for this question, but I don't know which is the right translation.

Any help will be appreciated! :)

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Comments

  • SamiSami Yearly + Live Member Sage ⭐ 7Sage Tutor
    10806 karma

    So if it was "Or" it could imply that he could potentially not write the other song. Is that what the statement is saying?

    For example: Every morning I eat one fried egg and one toast.
    So we know every morning I eat two things.

    But if I write it as: Every morning I eat fried egg or toast. It's possible that one day I did not eat egg or toast. But according to my first statement I definitely do both.

    I hope that helped see the difference.

  • akistotleakistotle Member ⭐ 🍌🍌
    edited May 2017 9382 karma

    Thank you for your comment @Sami !

    I think the statement means: if it's a song A has written, it's either B or PR (or both).
    A --> B or PR

    "A --> B and PR" implies that every time A has wrote songs, A wrote both B and PR.

  • SamiSami Yearly + Live Member Sage ⭐ 7Sage Tutor
    edited May 2017 10806 karma

    @akistotle said:
    Thank you for your comment @Sami !

    I think the statement means: if it's a song A has written, it's either B or PR (or both).
    A --> B or PR

    "A --> B and PR" implies that every time A has wrote songs, A wrote both B and PR.

    I feel like you are confusing all the sufficient indicators and are thinking it means the same thing. Just because the words "if", "Whenever", "All", etc., imply a sufficient relationship doesn't mean it has the same meaning.

    The original statement is saying:
    The only songs A has written are B songs and PR songs
    So what we know about "songs A has written"---> two things (its B and PR).
    He has written both not one of them. If you say "or both" even with that it leave the possibility open that the other one is not written by him.

    but if you say it like: if its a song A has written? "if" leaves open the possibility that the conditional statement still needs to be triggered. Has he written any songs? We don't know. We are now in the hypothetical of "if A wrote a song". That is not the same thing that the original statement is saying. The original statement, "the only songs A has written", is giving us information about something that happened in the past and its absolute.

    I think you are closer to the correct meaning of the original sentence with "every time". But you have to try to keep the original meaning of sufficient indicators intact.

    I hope this helps more : )

  • akistotleakistotle Member ⭐ 🍌🍌
    9382 karma

    We are now in the hypothetical of "if A wrote a song". That is not the same thing that the original statement is saying. The original statement, "the only songs A has written", is giving us information about something that happened in the past and its absolute.

    Thank you so much for pointing out my confusion!!You're right! "if A wrote a song" is hypothetical, and that's not what the original statement is saying.

    The original statement, "the only songs A has written", is giving us information about something that happened in the past and its absolute.

    Now I think I shouldn't diagram like A --> B or PR. It should be "past B or past PR" (like J.Y. did in the video).

  • SamiSami Yearly + Live Member Sage ⭐ 7Sage Tutor
    edited May 2017 10806 karma

    : ) I am glad that helped.

    and I have not done this particular PT so I can't just go in and check the sentence for you or why exactly JY wrote "past". That would ruin a fresh PT for me. From the first sentence above it's not necessary to write the word "past". But I could be missing what else is stated in the stimulus. I hope what I wrote above helped. If not, you can definitely write down in your next message that you need more clarity on this stimulus and hopefully someone who has done this PT can jump in for you <3.

  • J.Y. PingJ.Y. Ping Administrator Instructor
    14225 karma

    Great discussion you two.

    This is a good question. I should have been clearer in the video. I updated the lesson with a brief write up: https://7sage.com/lsat_explanations/lsat-73-section-4-question-21/

  • akistotleakistotle Member ⭐ 🍌🍌
    9382 karma

    @Sami said:
    and I have not done this particular PT so I can't just go in and check the sentence for you or why exactly JY wrote "past". That would ruin a fresh PT for me. From the first sentence above it's not necessary to write the word "past". But I could be missing what else is stated in the stimulus. I hope what I wrote above helped. If not, you can definitely write down in your next message that you need more clarity on this stimulus and hopefully someone who has done this PT can jump in for you <3.

    It was really helpful! (I'm trying not to do PTs in 70s too but I did this one because I used this for a group study) Thank you <3

    @"J.Y. Ping" said:
    Great discussion you two.

    This is a good question. I should have been clearer in the video. I updated the lesson with a brief write up: https://7sage.com/lsat_explanations/lsat-73-section-4-question-21/

    Thank you for a great explanation!!! ("Beihai or Chibi Maruko" lol)

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