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For all those that cannot post-pone the test...
LSATcantwin
Alum Member Sage ⭐
The advice on 7Sage is great. Everyone here genuinely cares about you, your progress, and helping you achieve your goals. People will go out of their way to encourage you and to help fill in your weak links with the LSAT.
Unfortunately advice is not one size fits all. While the LSAT is an extremely important test, and one that requires your dedication and endurance in order to succeed, it is also one step in a much larger game that is life. Not everyone can afford to take time off and devote themselves to the LSAT for years, and not everyone should. If you fall into this group of people with a time constraint, and are frustrated with the advice to postpone the test, just remember you know your situation better than anyone else.
The mentors/sages/guides and users here want you to do the best you possibly can on the LSAT. Many times waiting to take the test is the right answer. It's just not the answer everyone needs to hear.
So if you fall into this camp, and feel frustrated by the fact that no one understand why you need to take the test sooner than later, do not let it get you down. We are here as support for each other --- and we do understand that sometime people's paths and pace differ.
Just a shout out to anyone lurking and feeling pressured by this.
Comments
You read my mind, @LSATcantwin. Wishing everyone in this boat good luck come September! We got this, team!
Yes! Someone needed to say this.
I delayed it one year because I wasn't near a good "target" score for my personal preference. I'm still working on the "target" score now. I already work with attorneys and they told me they don't care what lsat score or law school I attend, as long as I pass the CA bar and i'll have a job with them. That helps with the stress of everyone saying you need X score to get into X schools because then you'll be able to gain employment. I realize my advantage but I'm still striving for a good score.
Thanks for bringing this up, though.
I am feeling greatly pressured by this. I lost contact with friends and family over them not understanding how important this test was.... I lost relationships, left jobs, and gave up quite a lot.
I think this is a really great sentiment and wonderful post. However, I honestly think if you can't devote enough time to the most important test for law school, then maybe you should reconsider law school. Or at least until you're at a different point in your life. I tend to think the advice to wait until you are ready to take this test is one size fits all. I get what you mean though and my plan to take time off to study full timed lasted about 4 weeks before I lost all my money through various bad investments and had to return to the same job. So now I'm working full time again and postponing until I am scoring a 174+ If it takes a lifetime.....
Somethings are too important. I almost think of it like marriage. Sometimes people don't always have good luck finding partners while their young and don't have the luxury of waiting around for whatever reason (usually self-imposed) so they get married to the wrong guy (like going to the wrong law school) because they didn't or couldn't find a way to make it work. Sometimes people want their cake and to eat it too.
If you find yourself in a situation where you need to take the test before you're ready, don't. Short of a gun to your head there is never any good reason why you need to do so. Actually, well if someone offered me a lot of money I guess I'd take it before I was ready. Or several other unlikely scenarios.
So while I agree with your sentiment and completely am feeling the same way, I just wanted to provide another viewpoint. Law school isn't for everyone. It's a hard career to get into and a tough gig to succeed in. Most would say the LSAT is the easiest part....
ETA: I guess I can think of some situations where crazy parents would like kick you out unless you took the test before you were ready. I've heard of that. Fuck those parents, though. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do. So I guess I can see where there could be some situations where you'd "have to take the test" and couldn't postpone. If that was the case, I'd just skip law school altogether
I actually want to host a trip 7Sage meet up in NYC and show you around NYLS, Dozo, BLS, etc and show you where all the grads work. I know many of them and we drink regularly at the local bars. Some drive for UPS, some work at Barnes and Nobles, one is working for free at an internship hoping for a legal job. It's real out there. And I just can never stress that it is not worth putting yourself in any kind of debt for a poor chance at a job you don't even know you'll get or like.
So I agree there are situations that suck and sometimes those circumstances may be god telling you not to go to law school. At least not now.
Hey! I didn't say this to under cut you. Sorry if it seemed that way. 9/10 times I 100% agree with you on waiting to take the test. I just see this advice put on here every day, and I know that there are a lot of users who comment far less frequently than us chatter boxes. I just wanted them to know if they ever feel any pressure/stress that they don't have to worry. They know their own situation and they know if they need to take it asap.
I still agree a move from a 169 to a 172 is worth a year of work. I just want people to know that we do understand their lives are different and it might not be the best fit for them!!
No! I actually 100% agree with your post! And I think it is a great post to make for others who are always constantly hearing retake, take when you're ready, etc., but like gets in the way..... I get it, I really so.
I just wanted to put the other view out there about how important it can be to take all the time. And the unfortunate possibility that law school might not be an option for everyone. Nor should it be. I think it should be accessible to everyone, but that doesn't mean it's for everyone.
A nice lady I worked with at a car dealership in college wanted to be a lawyer. Like more than anything. It became her identity, not her plan in life, and she obsessed over it. The issue was she had to work (she was a title clerk, a busy job at a dealership) and she had 2 or 3 toddlers and was a single mom. She studied a bit. Took the test after maybe 6 weeks of prep. And by prep I mean .... she would do some practice problems when the kids went to bed. Long story short, she ended up getting into CUNY Law. She relocated and left and I recently found her on linkedin and she now works an another car dealership. She graduated in 2015.
I'm not sure if anyone warned her, but some people just need to understand the gravity of the legal field and how much 100 or 200k really is with interest and debt accruing. It's monpoloy money until the bills star coming in. It's a dream job until you can't get it..... Living in the city really opened my eyes to how bad the legal market is. There's thousands of law firms in NYC and still tons of people have JDs and no legal jobs. CUNY should be sued for crimes against humanity in my opinion lol. If people think I'm lying please come visit me and at any given bar 15 people are lawyers and when you ask where they work they say they're actively looking for opportunities or have an interview next week. Or they're drunk and Xanax'd up enough to tell you the truth.... they're unemployed and wish they never went and then spend the next hour telling me all the reasons not to go. It's sad and it's a real buzz kill, lmao.
and I jus think, if only someone told them to retake or wait..... Then I remember that they probably wouldn't have listened anyway. And I pretend to use to bathroom and go out the back door, never to be seen again.......
I agree all the advice is awesome but not a one size fits all. I work in the Philadelphia legal market and truthfully maybe it's been luck, my network, or a bit of both but I have found quite success and am pushed by my peers to get my degree to make the success even larger. It's all about being smart about your path and honest with yourself. I completely agree though going into 100k debt isn't worth it unless you're 1. in a specialized niche where you're guaranteed a job 2. at a school where employment rate is above 40% (even THIS doesn't even account for all of the outliers) 3. have a great network that can secure you something after 4. at a T-14 school but...again I have friends who went to UPENN Law and cannot secure a job. It's seriously about you as a person, a little bit of luck, and at the end of the day for firms --- wtf you can bring to the table for them (advice from my lawyer bosses). Many of my bosses did not go to T-14 schools and have had amazing careers. Only YOU know where you can go, want to go, what career you want, what your network looks like...etc.
So, for my fellow September people... study hard and have some faith. If YOU don't feel you can get into any schools then retake, but if YOU feel you can ...then don't retake. LSATs are very important, but not everything (again advice from my lawyer bosses I cannot confirm I subscribe to this idea considering I stress every single day about the LSAT
You don't need to go to a T14 school to have an amazing career, but T14 schools unquestionably give you the best chance to have an amazing career. There are exceptions to every rule, of course, but the advice @"Alex Divine" constantly gives is sound. If you can afford a gap year, and if that gap year is the difference between a T14 and a non-T14, it's almost always a good idea to take the gap year.
If you can't afford a gap year, that's okay, too. Strong regional schools are good places to go. Debt should be a real concern for everyone, though.
40% employment rates are schools you should absolutely stay away from. 4 out of 10 people getting jobs? Not including their sneaky stats and school funded jobs.... I'd stay the heck away from that school. Even with a full scholarship.
Many of your bosses, if at a law firm, probably graduated before the last recession where going to any accredited law school gave you a decent chance at moving up. There were also less people going into law at the time and competition was therefore lower. So keep that in mind when you see firm bios with Partners who graduated summa cum laude from New England Law in 2004.
Also UPenn Law had a near 99% employment rating for the class of 2016 and it wasn't much lower the years before that. I think like 253 out of 258 found jobs. So sorry to hear about your friends. they must have been like the only ones without jobs... Times is tough! Must have had some bad luck, bad bidding at OCI, not great interviewing skills, or not so hot grades.... Who knows! But that's heartbreaking to hear
I'm sure they will find something eventually.
https://www.law.upenn.edu/careers/employment-statistics.php
This I find a bit of a troubling philosophy: "If YOU don't feel you can get into any schools then retake, but if YOU feel you can ...then don't retake." So just because you feel like you can GET into A school, don't retake? I don't know if that's the right spirit...
Maybe I just read it wrong!
Anyways, you are so right about luck and networking being such a big part of legal hiring! Also, I think everyone should have to work in a legal job before law school. I have a feeling most prospective students don't really know too much about what the work entails. I interned at a legal office for about a year and while I didn't learn much law, I saw the lifestyle and what the work usually entailed. Phone calls. Emails. Reading, researching, writing, and more emails. Little time in court.
Well said my man!
There are great regional schools with high employment. Just make sure you're going for cheap because many of them having starting salaries around $40,000 and paying back full tuition on that is going to be... well... it ain't happening.
Obviously, delaying is not always an option due to the realities of life, but often, the question posed is: "Help, I need a 170+, and I'm 2 months away from the LSAT, and I'm scoring in the mid 150's." Well, a dose of reality is needed with respect to the LSAT score too. It's gonna be awfully tough to go from mid 150's to 170 in two months, even those people have it within themselves to score a 170+. So, most people in that situation have a choice: Give up on the need need for a 170, or delay. But to insist on the 170 and insist on taking the next LSAT is a recipe for stress, disappointment, and failure.
Couldn't agree more. LSAC is big on realistic assessment. ("Assess Yourself Realistically," anyone?) They want to see that you have a good head on your shoulders, that you can handle disappointment, failure, delays, postponements, and most of all that you're able to persevere through these difficult circumstances. The LSAT is tailor-made to test these things. The LSAT and the law admissions process is about so much more than just whipping out an amazing LSAT score. It takes time and patience. It may not seem like it, but the advice you get from most LSAT veterans will be strictly for YOUR benefit, even if it's difficult to hear at first.
No, that's not what I meant. @"Alex Divine". I believe everyone should do what is best for them and what they are aiming for. While I'm aiming high, others may not be because they don't need to. Obviously getting the best score possible is the ideal situation but some cannot afford to take the time they need to get a 170, do not need to aim that high (already "in-network", can afford full sticker price for any school,...etc. Every situation is different and deciding whether to retake/take is a personal choice and is entirely dependent on the person. I would love for everyone to max out at their full potential, but life makes this unrealistic.
I don't know anyone that went to New England Law School by the way. I'm talking schools that around the same caliber as Temple/Nova/Rutgers. In the Philadelphia market Temple is the feeder school for the legal market.
No, I get that and agree mostly with you. everyone's situation is different. I just happen to think a lot of people refusing to retake or self imposing deadlines is the most common issue. Though there are definitely other circumstances. My point is, sometimes if you're not willing to reach your potential on this test, maybe law isn't for you. Also, my N.E. Law example was just to show a point that a TTTT back in the day was a much different place with much different outcomes, that's all.
I totally agree with you though!
Amen to that! Again, This is exactly how I tend to feel about most of these situations. It's self imposed issues like saying you have to take the September test because... you want to.... and you need a 173 and are currently at a 156. Yeah, probably a good time for a reality check or some of that NZT48 Drug from Limitless.
@"Alex Divine" Interesting that NEL was ever reputable haha. It is insane to me when I hear people just apply to law school and take on the debt simply to get a pay raise. Rude awakening.
HAHA, I don't know if I'd say reputable, it certainly wasn't as bad as it is now though. A lot of the legal field just required you to have a JD and pass the bar and you had a job. Maybe not a 6 figure white shoe firm job, but you got something.
And LMAO -- yeah the old going to take out debt for a pay raise. At least sometimes the businesses pay for it, though, I think that is becoming more and more rare because there's already too many damn lawyers.