Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Categories
- 33.5K All Categories
- 28.1K LSAT
- 17.1K General
- 5.2K Logical Reasoning
- 1.4K Reading Comprehension
- 1.7K Logic Games
- 70 Podcasts
- 191 Webinars
- 11 Scholarships
- 194 Test Center Reviews
- 2.2K Study Groups
- 112 Study Guides/Cheat Sheets
- 2.5K Specific LSAT Dates
- 35 November 2024 LSAT
- 18 October 2024 LSAT
- 9 September 2024 LSAT
- 38 August 2024 LSAT
- 28 June 2024 LSAT
- 4 April 2024 LSAT
- 11 February 2024 LSAT
- 22 January 2024 LSAT
- 38 November 2023 LSAT
- 43 October 2023 LSAT
- 14 September 2023 LSAT
- 38 August 2023 LSAT
- 27 June 2023 LSAT
- 30 Sage Advice
- 5K Not LSAT
- 4K Law School Admissions
- 13 Law School Explained
- 10 Forum Rules
- 641 Technical Problems
- 287 Off-topic
Need advice on next step - after studying for 10 months
eesLSAT2017
Alum Member
So I take the LSAT on September 16. I started studying in late December with a cold diagnostic preptest (1) of 162. Reading comprehension was my strongest subject, I missed no more than three for an entire set (4 passages/complete pt) for the first 6 months of studying. Since December I've studied the logic games bible, the logical reasoning bible, done quite a few drills of logic games and logical reasoning, completed the core curriculum, and taken a number of pts. I'm currently taking a PowerScore in person course and supplementing it with additional pts and drills (I'm struggling to complete all of the homework before each class period, so I may have to cut back on the additional studying). The instructor has told me in class that I'm analyzing myself away from the correct answer in some cases. And sometimes I've noticed that my science background leads me to too critically analyze a science question (for example, I crossed off an answer choice about the virulence of a disease because of an improper assumption that I made from real world application - I know, dumb. But one of my weaknesses is clearly separating every day knowledge from not.) My general trend has been an upward one, hovering around 165-166, then two weeks ago I made a 172 on pt36. It felt great! But must have been fake. Now I've gotten 162 on two preptests in a row and am finding myself increasingly frustrated. My reading comprehension is more around -4 and -6 per pt, and I had been doing great on logic games, rarely worse than -1/pt, then on the last preptest I missed 8 in lg! I feel like I'm trending in the wrong direction at the last second, and running out of time. Obviously I want to be above 172, and looking at t14 schools. I'm terrified I'm only going to hit 162 and wind up at Bart's School of Law because I can't pay for anything else. I'm panicking and I don't know what to do. I've invested the time and the money. I'm highly highly motivated and have genuinely hit the books. I've been humble, paying attention to my lowest sections. It's like the whole thing rotates. One minute I'll make perfect logic games but do poorly on reading comprehension, and then the next I won't miss a reading comprehension and I'll miss an entire lg section. When I started, I rarely missed a paradox question, now I'm missing them frequently. I feel like I'm on a merry-go-round, and I can't pin anything down. Advice anyone?? Am I just destined to be stuck where I am? Not smart enough to break the plateau and hit the next level? Retaking is not an option. I must apply this cycle. With 40 days and <12 hours left I'm seriously panicking. Anyone, please help?!
Hopefully by the time someone responds I'll have the snot and tears cleared from my face.
Comments
@eesLSAT2017
Why do you have to take in September and have to apply this cycle? Usually when people say this it is just because they don't want to wait, and unfortunately, sometimes that's exactly what we have to do in order to reach our potential. If you ever find yourself in a position where you absolutely must go to law school right now, this cycle, it's probably a pretty good sign that your priorities are such that delaying a cycle is exactly what you need. It also doesn't help to have unrealistic expectations of huge score increases with only a little over a month left. It is probably just adding unneeded stress and causing you to burnout.
You got a 172!? That's awesome and as long as you did it under the proper timed conditions, it is not fake at all and says a lot about your potential. You're definitely capable of this score on the real test, so set this as your goal and work towards it, unwavering for anything, especially test dates and man made deadlines. If it takes an extra year to prep and next cycle you get into, say, Columbia law school instead of Bart's Law School, I'm sure you'd agree that it would be worth it.
I am generally a fan of using multiple LSAT companies to prep. I think learning different approaches and perspectives has been a positive, at least in my prep. That said, I think trying to balance them all at once may be causing you some harm.
From what you've described I think you may be doing a bit too much. The 7Sage course, Powerscore in class, and whatever else doesn't seem to be working well for you if your scores are ultimately trending down. Focus on one thing/curriculum at a time would be my advice for now. Perhaps you may want to finish the PS course, focus on the homework, and utilizing their methods if they are working for you. Then maybe afterwards, depending on where you are scoring, you may want to focus on 7Sage's methods and course. (I see you have the starter course, not sure if you've completed it yet?)
As far as LG, I think you might benefit by fool proofing the older games (PTs 1-35)
This can be time consuming, but it will ultimately help you become more consistent. For this I do recommend using 7Sage's videos and fool proof method. Or perhaps since you've said you rarely miss more than 1 per section, is it possible you just made some stupid mistakes or were having an off day?
Really try to dig deep an examine and evaluate why you're missing the questions you get wrong. You had a high diagnostic (162), so it's clear you're a bright and very capable of breaking through the plateau.
Lastly, I think you should lay off the PTs for a bit, especially if you're burning through new ones. Spend the necessary time to thoroughly review the tests and do targeted drilling of any weaknesses. Lack of proper review and drilling following PTs may very well be why you aren't seeing any improvement as of late. I think PTs always make the most sense after you've completed a full class/curriculum anyway. Drills and timed sections are probably your best bet while still in your learning phase.
Good luck!
Hi!
170+ scorer here, hopefully I can shed some light on your situation.
First, consistency with the in/out games often resides in ones dedication to limiting splits within the game boards. If this is something you struggle with, more complex game pieces will be your godsend.
The 170 bar is an elusive one, both mentally and physically. In your situation much will be decided in your logical reasoning--you will live or die there. One technique that is not well-known but nonetheless effective is the "midnight mash." You set your alarm clock for 3 or 4am and start a logical reasoning section within 2 minutes of waking up. This will train your semi-subconscious logical reasoning center of your brain and vastly improve your focus. Used by me and many 170+ colleagues of mine.
Good luck!
The midnight mash....you are sick. And I'm going to try it....
Is this thing for real?
Also interested in this method... Never heard of it, but it does sound interesting to say the least.
It could be burn out as you have been studying a lot. Have you been taking breaks?
Also, have you tried recording yourself and finding out where you are going wrong. It's hard to give person-specific advice about what could account for that big range in section performance without knowing where you are going wrong. I would say a good way to figure that out is to record yourself and break your time down and see where it is you went wrong.
does it have to be 3/4am? or can it be just within 2mins of waking up
Please don't do the midnight mash guys. "Train[ing] your semi-subconscious logical reasoning center of your brain" is the kind of statement that should really trigger your skepticism. From what I understand, our knowledge of the human brain is far from being able to make these types of claims. From what I have experienced and from what common sense tells me, that's not how learning the LSAT works.
@"Cant Get Right"
https://media.tenor.com/images/93e2f56c15be8aca9c350341d4ee7f22/tenor.gif
Now eat your brussel sprouts.
Various reasons dictate that, if I don't apply this cycle, it would be difficult to apply later. I've already taken basically 2 years gap (half of one of those was to complete a second BS degree), and I can't/don't want to wait another year to apply.
Ok, so that makes me feel way better.
That's probably legit.
I've basically completed the starter course. There are a couple RC videos I haven't watched yet, mostly because I thought I was competent enough in RC that I should skip it an focus on the other areas. The PS course goes until the Sept. test date. I'm scared to put all my eggs in that basket, but it sounds like maybe that's what I should be doing?
I've fool proofed, maybe not all of them, but almost all of them. I'm really consistent at games. On blind review, I fixed all of my LG mistakes, and it was weird, because they were mostly stupid mistakes. Like obvious rule errors.
OK! Dig deep how, do you think? I'm totally open to doing some deep digging, lol. And thanks for the kind comments
That sounds legit. I'll focus on this last PT and review it incredibly thoroughly. My BR was 171 (actual 164, I accidentally didn't enter two answers on the grader I guess. Whoops.). BTW.
Thank you!!
When you say limiting splits for in/out games, do you mean like, if the game says four pieces can be in at once, you put four slots on the left? I struggled with that for awhile, but I think I've got it now!
Dude, the midnight mash sounds brutal.
I've taken some breaks... on the advice of family and forum, I'm going to take this Wednesday to go to a water park with family. I feel really lazy doing it, but I think you all are right, the burn out is real.
I haven't done the recording method yet. I may try that.
The semi-subcounscious part does make me a bit skeptical. I guess it would train you to wake up and pay attention pretty quick though!
My response to any skepticism I've noticed in this thread with respect to the "midnight mash" is twofold:
As a psychology major, I am aptly qualified to make statements about the tendencies of the human brain. True, we have much to learn about it, but recent Oxford studies have revealed the malleability of the "semi-subconsious mind", that is to say, the part of the brain that transitions from consciousness to subconsciousness. An apropos example would be hypnosis. The effectiveness of the midnight mash resides in the stimulation of a relatively active semi-subconscious mind only minutes after waking. If this region of the brain is engaged in logical reasoning, vast mental gains are to be had.
Secondly, I was privileged to be a part of an elite study group last year for the LSAT. As a spring-quarter sophomore I was involved in a weekly study group with three junior-year students, each driving an average of four hours to attend a common location. At least once a month we engaged in a midnight mash, and reaped substantial logical reasoning benefits from each. This technique is tested and certified.
Count me as skeptical too.
"As a psychology major, I am aptly qualified to make statements about the tendencies of the human brain."
I assume this is just your run of the mill undergrad psych major. You may be minimally more qualified than the average non-psych major to make statements about the human brain, but you've stretched that really thin here.
As to your claims about the subconscious mind and waking up to study I would say it couldn't hurt except I am pretty sure getting sleep is important to learning. That said, if I was able to set an alarm and wake up at midnight I would obviously have gone to sleep before midnight which would mean I would be getting more sleep than I normally do right now. Finally, I have a plausible mechanism for how your "midnight mash" might work.
"Secondly, I was privileged to be a part of an elite study group last year for the LSAT. As a spring-quarter sophomore I was involved in a weekly study group with three junior-year students, each driving an average of four hours to attend a common location."
Why? How is this a privilege? Shouldn't elite LSAT scorers have the logical reasoning skills to save the four hours a week and spend then studying instead of driving.
Also "elite" study group? Was this some sort of scam? I just can't imagine a group of people intentionally choosing to identify as an "elite study group." I mean, I am studying to retake a 172 and got a 178 and a 177 on the prep tests that I took this Saturday morning. But, I wouldn't say I am commuting down the staircase to study with my "elite" study group of one every Saturday morning.
"At least once a month we engaged in a midnight mash, and reaped substantial logical reasoning benefits from each. This technique is tested and certified."
So for one quarter of one year, once a month you used this midnight mash. That is about three times, maybe four if it was literally a full quarter of the year and not a quarter of the academic year.
By doing logical reasoning problems after setting your alarm for midnight and waking up at least 3 times, the technique becomes tried and certified because you believe that you reaped substantial logical reasoning benefits each time.
Maybe the satire is just going over my head.
You start off in an elite study group. Elite sounds pretty exclusive so I'm going to assume you are at least around the high 160's threatening 170's. If more than 5 or 10 percent of people are outscoring you how elite can your group be? Then you do these 4 hour drive study weekend meetup midnight mash things. How do you assess substantial logical reasoning benefits? At that scoring level it's non trivial to tell if a test was easier for you, you got lucky, or you have genuinely improved.
Dear EesLSAT2017,
I doubt the midnight mash is the best answer to your dilemna.
I can only give so much advice. I started out close to flawless on reading comprehension and logical reasoning so it's hard for me to really give good advice on how to improve on those.
Logic Games was my weakest section and still is my least consistent.
First of all, panicking now, crying, and all of that is fine. It's even fine on the test. You just have to keep fighting your way through it and try to get back to calmly doing the questions as swiftly as possible. I did not finish the Logic Games on my February test. They were the second section. I panicked for a second in the next section got it back together and moved on with the test. I still ended up with a 172. The moral: don't panic and don't cancel.
If you use the 7Sage proctor, you will notice there isn't a lot of time to gather yourself between sections compared to other standardized tests. The LSAT seems like it is designed to test resilience. You can't let one weak section drag you down for the rest of the test, can't let one question on logical reasoning which they might throw out distract you for the whole section.
The opposite is true too, though. Just as you have to be careful not to let the test drive you to a frenzy, there are going to be moments like when you got that 172. Sometimes it all falls together.
I mentioned Logic Games are my weak section. The first time I got a perfect section of games on a timed PT I only missed two questions on the rest of the test. With the curve, that was my first 180. I say first because it's important to stay positive. There will be more.
I think I probably calmed down after finishing the logic games with time to spare early in the test. Since that test, I've tried with some success to court that calm feeling while taking the test. You don't want to feel frenzied. You don't want to feel bored. You don't want to feel angry at the test. Ideally you want taking the test to make you feel calm and controlled as you move swiftly through it.
Obviously none of that is any sunstitute for knowing the material, but your172 was not a fluke. It would be a fluke if you guessed a bunch of times and wound up getting them all right and thus got your 172. But, in all likelihood you did better on the first ones (by chance or because they were a type that were easy for you) and this put you in a good mindset which enabled you to excel on the rest of the test.
If you can attain that mindset without doing well on the first ones, then you don't need the order of the questions or sections on the test to favor you, don't need to get lucky.
I think that my prep testing method is a good way to feel this inner calm on the test.
I take back to back 4 section tests. I score the first and then immediately take the second. If I can ride out the emotional low of seeing unexpected errors pop up, counting them, and then, seeing the low score I would have gotten or conversely the exhileration of a nearly perfect test, it will help me ride out emotions in the real test.
Even if you preserve the value of blind review, by not scoring between the two tests, doing 8 sections in a row means you are spending much more time getting used to calmly riding the emotional waves of the test while fatigued.
You get twice as many chances to gain confidence from staying calm despite a bad section or finding the bliss of a nearly perfect test.
And when you get back to back scores above your target score, you'll be whistling through your blind review.
Good luck,
Seeking Perfection
P.S.
I can't claim back to back PT's are certified, but they are certainly better tested than midnight mash.
Further, I love the back to back PT's because they get me through tests twice as fast. Normally, this is cited as a bad thing. But I have a 172 in the hand and am probably retaking for the last time (since I am a KJD and can't seriously study for December). So I have the15 most recent tests to burn through in the time before the test along with two short vacations to go on and classes to start before Sept 16.
That said, I might retake in December without much additional studying if September does not go as well as I hope and don't see why you couldn't if you had to.
Hey Patrick, sorry if I came across as dismissive at all, I'm just saying that these types of claims shouldn't just be accepted but rather call for justification. Skepticism doesn't mean close-minded, it means needing convincing. Here, the simpler explanation to me is to that MM coincided with improvements derived from hard work, dedication, and an already sharp intellect becoming increasingly well trained over the course of your studies. For me to be convinced that MM directly accounts for any of your improvements, it's going to take substantial, peer-reviewed research. It's an extraordinary claim, and extraordinary claims call for extraordinary proofs.