Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In Apply for Membership

Categories

Northwestern Pritzker to accept GRE Fall 2018

2»

Comments

  • LSATcantwinLSATcantwin Alum Member Sage ⭐
    13286 karma

    @cam said:
    The first question that popped into my mind is whether or not schools would require an LSAC GPA vs. degree GPA if the score being submitted is the GRE, or if application will still be completed via LSAC. I'm guessing LSAC GPA will still be used (even though myself and many others would love to be able to use the degree GPA).

    Lol the difference for me would be a 2.7 to a 4.0.....that's pretty dramatic

  • dfletch5dfletch5 Alum Member
    260 karma

    @tringo335 said:

    @dfletch5 said:

    @"Nicole Hopkins" said:
    One of the reasons I've done well is because I'm super fast at assessing arguments and articulating assumptions: two skills you will not get from the GRE on its own >

    @"Nicole Hopkins" @tringo335 Ironically, Nicole's words gave me the kick in the pants I needed to get more serious about LSAT Prep. One of the reasons Nicole is successful in law school today is the 7Sage prep plan we've paid for and have committed our blood, sweat and tears to conquering. Here's to crushing the LSAT!!!

    I agree. I feel the LSAT does better prepare you for actual Law School. Like you said, gives you a better kick in the pants to do well. :)

    So true! -:)

  • TheMikeyTheMikey Alum Member
    4196 karma

    @cam said:
    The first question that popped into my mind is whether or not schools would require an LSAC GPA vs. degree GPA if the score being submitted is the GRE, or if application will still be completed via LSAC. I'm guessing LSAC GPA will still be used (even though myself and many others would love to be able to use the degree GPA).

    I think LSAC GPA's are still going to be what they look at. I would assume that people with a GRE score still apply via LSAC though, since that is the database, and GRE scores will prob just be on your account.

  • OlamHafuchOlamHafuch Alum Member
    2326 karma

    LSAC threatened banning any school that uses other standardized tests from using their data base. Articles about his can be found on Above the Law. Monopolies tend to be very protective of their territories.

  • Seeking PerfectionSeeking Perfection Alum Member
    edited August 2017 4423 karma

    @"Nicole Hopkins" said:

    @"Seeking Perfection" said:
    It seems to me that there are two possibilities here.

    The LSAT is no better than the GRE at predicting law school success. This seems like a stunning failure. A specifically designed test for law school aptitude is no better at predicting law school success than a generic test which basically tests high school reading and math ability. How can this be? Is it our fault? Have people like us ruined the validity of the LSAT by studying for it like a job? Or was it never valid to begin with? That has to be an indictment of the people at LSAC? It is also kind of shocking to me since it feels like thevskills tested on the LSAT would be useful in the study of the law.

    The other option is that the LSAT is better at predicting law school success than the GRE. If this is the case, then Harvard and Northwestern have either just made dramatic mistakes or are deliberately sacraficing the quality of their incoming classes in a sinister play to claw their way back up the rankings.

    Actually, GRE scores as of yet will not be reported to US News. So either they replace all the low LSAT people with GRE people to inflate the rankings (unlikely—NU is quite reverse-splitter friendly as a complement to being splitter-friendly; they need high GPA people to offset low GPA/high LSAT people), to your point, or they (what I think is much more likely) admit candidates on an extremely selective basis without LSAT.

    My prediction is that, unless US News changes its rankings algorithms to account for GRE score, HLS and NU will admit very few GRE-only folks. But the option will be there to make exceptions for exceptional candidates, likely with very high GPA's (again because we need high GPA's).

    "Actually, GRE scores as of yet will not be reported to US News."
    I'm confused as to how this conflicts with what I said.

    The LSAT is still either a better predictor or not.

    If not, that is pitiful and I blame LSAC. They had decades to get their act together.

    If the LSAT is a better predictor, then when Harvard and Northwestern use the GRE as a run around to get people with high GPA's who are not capable of scoring well on the LSAT or unwilling to put in the effort to score well on the LSAT that still diminishes the quality of their entering classes.

    "So either they replace all the low LSAT people with GRE people to inflate the rankings (unlikely—NU is quite reverse-splitter friendly as a complement to being splitter-friendly; they need high GPA people to offset low GPA/high LSAT people), to your point, or they (what I think is much more likely) admit candidates on an extremely selective basis without LSAT."

    It seems likely to me that they will get rid of applicants with LSAT's near median and GPAs near median. They take people as you said with high GPAs and no LSAT (presumably high GRE's which are trivially easy to get). This bumps up their GPA median, meaning that these previously near median GPAs are now solidly below median.

    But, you are right that it could hurt anyone, not just traditional applicants. Basically, Northwestern gets to admit LSAT free high GPAs. They do so as much as they can get away with filling up some of their seats. They then fill the smaller remaining portion of their class with traditional LSAT takers. Basically, they get the selectivity advantage (advantage for law schools; disadvantage for applicants) of shrinking their classes with the revenue stream of admitting a full class.

    "My prediction is that, unless US News changes its rankings algorithms to account for GRE score, HLS and NU will admit very few GRE-only folks. But the option will be there to make exceptions for exceptional candidates, likely with very high GPA's (again because we need high GPA's)."

    I think the number of GRE admits might be small while Northwestern and Harvard wait to see whether the ABA will stop them. They only want so much disruption and embarassment if the ABA does an actual study and rejects the GRE as a less effective predictor than the LSAT.

    But, I don't think they are waiting for US News to count the GRE. They already get high GPA's with no attached LSAT score.

    "(again because we need high GPA's)"
    The law schools certainly do want people who wouldn't do well on The LSAT, but have high GPAs(and no attached LSAT score) to apply, fund them, and help them win the ranking game. For applicants it is usually far too late to control GPA.

    Edit: I'm still not sure what you were getting at. Maybe, you were saying US News won't count the GRE applicant's GPA. If so the effect at Northwestern will be the same, but smaller.

    Northwestern would get to admit people without numbers, charge them full freight and fill the smaller rest of their class with higher quality applicants.

  • TheMikeyTheMikey Alum Member
    4196 karma

    I feel like schools are just low key taking GRE scores now to just let people with high GPAs in to boost their numbers

  • AlexAlex Alum Member ⭐
    23929 karma

    @TheMikey said:
    I feel like schools are just low key taking GRE scores now to just let people with high GPAs in to boost their numbers

    Yup! And like @"nicole.hopkins" said and the Harvard email posted above supports, likely schools will be extremely selective with GRE admits. I'm guessing you'd need a near 4.0 and high GRE score.

  • dfletch5dfletch5 Alum Member
    260 karma

    @"Seeking Perfection" said:

    @"Nicole Hopkins" said:

    @"Seeking Perfection" said:
    It seems to me that there are two possibilities here.

    The LSAT is no better than the GRE at predicting law school success. This seems like a stunning failure. A specifically designed test for law school aptitude is no better at predicting law school success than a generic test which basically tests high school reading and math ability. How can this be? Is it our fault? Have people like us ruined the validity of the LSAT by studying for it like a job? Or was it never valid to begin with? That has to be an indictment of the people at LSAC? It is also kind of shocking to me since it feels like thevskills tested on the LSAT would be useful in the study of the law.

    The other option is that the LSAT is better at predicting law school success than the GRE. If this is the case, then Harvard and Northwestern have either just made dramatic mistakes or are deliberately sacraficing the quality of their incoming classes in a sinister play to claw their way back up the rankings.

    Actually, GRE scores as of yet will not be reported to US News. So either they replace all the low LSAT people with GRE people to inflate the rankings (unlikely—NU is quite reverse-splitter friendly as a complement to being splitter-friendly; they need high GPA people to offset low GPA/high LSAT people), to your point, or they (what I think is much more likely) admit candidates on an extremely selective basis without LSAT.

    My prediction is that, unless US News changes its rankings algorithms to account for GRE score, HLS and NU will admit very few GRE-only folks. But the option will be there to make exceptions for exceptional candidates, likely with very high GPA's (again because we need high GPA's).

    "Actually, GRE scores as of yet will not be reported to US News."
    I'm confused as to how this conflicts with what I said.

    The LSAT is still either a better predictor or not.

    If not, that is pitiful and I blame LSAC. They had decades to get their act together.

    If the LSAT is a better predictor, then when Harvard and Northwestern use the GRE as a run around to get people with high GPA's who are not capable of scoring well on the LSAT or unwilling to put in the effort to score well on the LSAT that still diminishes the quality of their entering classes.

    "So either they replace all the low LSAT people with GRE people to inflate the rankings (unlikely—NU is quite reverse-splitter friendly as a complement to being splitter-friendly; they need high GPA people to offset low GPA/high LSAT people), to your point, or they (what I think is much more likely) admit candidates on an extremely selective basis without LSAT."

    It seems likely to me that they will get rid of applicants with LSAT's near median and GPAs near median. They take people as you said with high GPAs and no LSAT (presumably high GRE's which are trivially easy to get). This bumps up their GPA median, meaning that these previously near median GPAs are now solidly below median.

    But, you are right that it could hurt anyone, not just traditional applicants. Basically, Northwestern gets to admit LSAT free high GPAs. They do so as much as they can get away with filling up some of their seats. They then fill the smaller remaining portion of their class with traditional LSAT takers. Basically, they get the selectivity advantage (advantage for law schools; disadvantage for applicants) of shrinking their classes with the revenue stream of admitting a full class.

    "My prediction is that, unless US News changes its rankings algorithms to account for GRE score, HLS and NU will admit very few GRE-only folks. But the option will be there to make exceptions for exceptional candidates, likely with very high GPA's (again because we need high GPA's)."

    I think the number of GRE admits might be small while Northwestern and Harvard wait to see whether the ABA will stop them. They only want so much disruption and embarassment if the ABA does an actual study and rejects the GRE as a less effective predictor than the LSAT.

    But, I don't think they are waiting for US News to count the GRE. They already get high GPA's with no attached LSAT score.

    "(again because we need high GPA's)"
    The law schools certainly do want people who wouldn't do well on The LSAT, but have high GPAs(and no attached LSAT score) to apply, fund them, and help them win the ranking game. For applicants it is usually far too late to control GPA.

    Edit: I'm still not sure what you were getting at. Maybe, you were saying US News won't count the GRE applicant's GPA. If so the effect at Northwestern will be the same, but smaller.

    Northwestern would get to admit people without numbers, charge them full freight and fill the smaller rest of their class with higher quality applicants. >

    @"Seeking Perfection"
    Don't sweat this. It will take a couple years for all the funky stuff to work itself out. By that time, you'll be in law school anyhow, and who cares what these admin people spend their time debating anyhow? All we should really care about is our acceptance letter and scholarship money.

    My two friends went to Columbia Law. One person scored 165 and had a 3.75 GPA, and the other scored a 170 and had a 2.9 GPA. The one with the 170 LSAT represented Columbia at National Moot Court.

    He is the one encouraging me to take the LSAT seriously because focusing on the test was a game changer for him in law school.

  • Seeking PerfectionSeeking Perfection Alum Member
    4423 karma

    @TheMikey said:
    I feel like schools are just low key taking GRE scores now to just let people with high GPAs in to boost their numbers

    I'm totally in agreement. But, I think it should also be obvious that is bad for anyone without a high GPA or who has taken the LSAT.

  • camcam Alum Member
    349 karma

    @LSATcantwin said:

    @cam said:
    The first question that popped into my mind is whether or not schools would require an LSAC GPA vs. degree GPA if the score being submitted is the GRE, or if application will still be completed via LSAC. I'm guessing LSAC GPA will still be used (even though myself and many others would love to be able to use the degree GPA).

    Lol the difference for me would be a 2.7 to a 4.0.....that's pretty dramatic

    Similar here. My max LSAC GPA is 2.9. I'm 11 classes (one calendar year) away from being done with undergrad, and should be finishing with a 3.7ish degree GPA since I screwed up royally during my first attempt at college (that ended about 9 years ago).

Sign In or Register to comment.