Not improving at all // Need advice

Comments

• 3 Likes

  LSATcantwin Alum Member Sage ⭐

  September 2017 13286 karma

  The LSAT is an unkind mistress to those who don't take her seriously. Progress comes painstakingly, even to those who study 20 hours a week. So let's take a look at your situation.

  1.) Are you ready for the September test? No. I think we can both agree to that. You need work on fundamentals, timing, and strategies. I might even consider biting the bullet and not taking the test at all. One high score might look better than one low and one high score. This is a tough call though and one that people will debate.

  2.) Can you improve on the LSAT? Yes. This could take over a year to accomplish though it's different for every person. The fundamentals are key to this test. They need to become so internalized that you do it without thinking. They need to become second nature to you. I would get a game plan going on how you want to approach this. DO NOT burn PT's before you get a grasp on fundamentals. The PT and timing phase comes AFTER understanding the test.

  3.) Can you rely on your GPA? Not really. The LSAT is the single most important number for admissions to law schools. An extremely low LSAT and high GPA will not get you into schools. You want your numbers to be at or above the schools median score for a chance to get into the school. If your GPA is in the 75 percentile and your LSAT is below the 25 percentile your chances will be pretty low. LSAT>GPA>SOFTS for admissions purposes.

  You are of course the master of your own destiny. As someone who thought the same way, that I could just wing this test, I've learned the hard way that it doesn't work like that. This test takes time, dedication and focus to improve on. Even when you are focused and studying hard gains take time. It's the nature of the beast.
• thisissparta Alum Member

  September 2017 edited September 2017 1363 karma

  @LSATcantwin said:
  The LSAT is an unkind mistress to those who don't take her seriously. Progress comes painstakingly, even to those who study 20 hours a week. So let's take a look at your situation.

  1.) Are you ready for the September test? No. I think we can both agree to that. You need work on fundamentals, timing, and strategies. I might even consider biting the bullet and not taking the test at all. One high score might look better than one low and one high score. This is a tough call though and one that people will debate.

  2.) Can you improve on the LSAT? Yes. This could take over a year to accomplish though it's different for every person. The fundamentals are key to this test. They need to become so internalized that you do it without thinking. They need to become second nature to you. I would get a game plan going on how you want to approach this. DO NOT burn PT's before you get a grasp on fundamentals. The PT and timing phase comes AFTER understanding the test.

  3.) Can you rely on your GPA? Not really. The LSAT is the single most important number for admissions to law schools. An extremely low LSAT and high GPA will not get you into schools. You want your numbers to be at or above the schools median score for a chance to get into the school. If your GPA is in the 75 percentile and your LSAT is below the 25 percentile your chances will be pretty low. LSAT>GPA>SOFTS for admissions purposes.

  You are of course the master of your own destiny. As someone who thought the same way, that I could just wing this test, I've learned the hard way that it doesn't work like that. This test takes time, dedication and focus to improve on. Even when you are focused and studying hard gains take time. It's the nature of the beast.

  Canadian schools work slightly differently. Most of them typically have a preference for high cGPAs. Except U of T, most other ('higher ranked') schools have an average LSAT score of 160-162ish, and an average cGPA of ~3.7. OP's cGPA definitely gives him/her an edge in Ontario.

  That said, @LivePumpkin, I think you should postpone. In order to be competitive at the schools you mentioned, you should be looking at increasing your score anywhere between 8-15 points (preferably more if you're only gunning for U of T).
• LivePumpkin Free Trial Member

  September 2017 270 karma

  Thank you both for the quick responses. I really appreciate you both taking the time to read my post. After seeing no progress on my timed PTs I've just been feeling a general loss of direction. And @thisissparta , because of the rising tuition of UofT compared to other schools, I have been thinking of not applying there at all and just hoping for Osgoode.

  In my PTs I have noticed that majority of the LR questions I get wrong are assumption/principle questions. I read that many people in the past drilled using Cambridge packets; however, they are no longer available. Should I use older PTs and just look for the assumption/principle questions there?
• amedley88 Alum Member

  September 2017 378 karma

  Don't take the September test, you will regret it. I did this last year, was in your same situation and I wish I hadn't. If you're serious about going to law school you will take your time to properly do fool proofing for LG, learn your fundamentals (this many involve doing the whole course agian), and only then doing PTs timed and BRing after to hone in on your weaknesses. It may take over one year but that's why law schools don't give everyone a free ride.
• vanessa fisher Alum Member

  September 2017 edited September 2017 1084 karma

  @LivePumpkin
  Just wanted to add something regarding GPA and LSAT score in Canada. I'm in Canada too, and my understanding is that a lot of how much they weight your GPA and LSAT will also depend on how long you've been out of school and what your other softs are. Of course, I think for UofT especially, LSAT is going to be important. I'd just add that if you are also recently out of school LSAT will likely be even more important because all they have to go off of is your GPA and LSAT score because you don't have much other life experience or accomplishments yet. So either way, I think it is worth waiting, but just to add that if you are also a recent graduate, I think even more important that you kill the LSAT.

  Best of luck!
• Paul Caint Alum Member ⭐

  September 2017 3521 karma

  @LivePumpkin No. It won't help you to just drill questions if you don't have the fundamentals down. You should get some prep material to learn the theory underlying assumption/principle questions. The Powerscore bible is a good foundation, but imo not comprehensive enough. I highly suggest you get 7sage and go through the core curriculum.

  As for your main question, I'm gonna give you some tough love. You just gotta suck it up and STUDY. Do 7sage, do Manhattan, do Blueprint, but DO SOMETHING. Don't just blindly do PTs to hope you get a higher score via exposure alone. You have to learn from them.

  Your approach wasn't working - you have to adapt to improve, or otherwise stagnate. I don't think you're prepared for the September exam if your goal is to get a 160+. That being said, I don't think it would hurt to take it and cancel just to get a feel for the testing environment. But you should be looking for December to be your real exam.
• 1 Like

  thisissparta Alum Member

  September 2017 1363 karma

  @LivePumpkin said:
  Thank you both for the quick responses. I really appreciate you both taking the time to read my post. After seeing no progress on my timed PTs I've just been feeling a general loss of direction. And @thisissparta , because of the rising tuition of UofT compared to other schools, I have been thinking of not applying there at all and just hoping for Osgoode.

  In my PTs I have noticed that majority of the LR questions I get wrong are assumption/principle questions. I read that many people in the past drilled using Cambridge packets; however, they are no longer available. Should I use older PTs and just look for the assumption/principle questions there?

  In that case, a score between 158-162 should make you competitive at Osgoode. I think that improvement is certainly doable - just, not within this coming week's time span. I'm going to refrain from giving you any substantial advice on which route you should take at this point in your prep because (i) I've only ever used 7Sage (and that has worked well for me so far in drills - even for LR) (ii) I haven't started PTing yet. That said, from the research I've done, it seems that both, The LSAT Trainer and 7Sage work well for people for LR. Far better than the PowerScore books.

  Again, to reiterate - don't rush into this test. You have a strong GPA, and your LSAT isn't too far away from your goal. Additionally, the school you're aiming for has a preference for high cGPAs - and you're well above their average. Things are still very much within your reach. Just spend the next few weeks/months solidifying your fundamentals before going back to PTing.

  You've got this!
• thisissparta Alum Member

  September 2017 edited September 2017 1363 karma

  Also, this is a neat site to help you predict your chances in BC and Ontario:
  http://lsutil.azurewebsites.net/Prediction2016

  Data has been collected, compiled and computed from several prior cycles to give a fairly accurate prediction of one's chances - considering you're a regular applicant. Doesn't work too well for regular splitters/mature students etc.
• monkeygod Member

  September 2017 10 karma

  If you prep to write in September you will probably use up all the recent PTs getting ready for it. If that's the case, when you study for December, you won't have any new ones to analyze your thinking. You won't know if you improved your skills or if your score improves because you've already seen the tests. I think this is very important.

  I think you may want to consider changing your test date. I know it's a disappointing decision to make because I came to the same realization and changed my date from September to February already.
• 2 Likes

  NotMyName Alum Member Sage ⭐

  September 2017 5320 karma

  Preparing for this test "the right way" may mean delaying even beyond December because it takes most people between 2 and 4 months to complete the core curriculum. During that time, one isn't taking PTs. Following the CC, many need to focus solely on LG to get that section score to -4 or less consistently; that process can take 2 months or more. Then PTs begin. If, however, your goal score is 160, you could probably just fool proof LG and start BRing the LR and RC.

  No matter the nuances of Canadian admissions, it sounds as if you have quite a lot of work to do before you even know what you are capable of on this test. By setting the bar low and deciding to make yourself a splitter is to consciously decide to disadvantage yourself in your law school admissions and I would advise against that.
• NotMyName Alum Member Sage ⭐

  September 2017 5320 karma

  Also, I subscribed to the same mentality regarding retakes; that if I take it when I'm not prepared, it's ok because I can retake. That was a mistake in my prep. Retakes on your application don't help. It's difficult to say to what extent they're detrimental. Probably depends on the Admissions group for any given school. But just because they accept your highest score, doesn't mean they don't browse at your previous scores and question your test history.