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Related Discussions
Character and Fitness Question
Okay I need an honest opinion from you all. My freshman year, literally my first weekend, I received a citation for drinking on campus, police were not involved, it was only campus RAs. Super dumb, I kick myself for it all the time.
I ended up working in the Dean of Students office during my undergraduate studies. So I asked the Dean if I should disclose that incident when applying to law school and he advised me not to if it's not listed on my official transcript. I ordered an official, sealed transcript and $15 later I realized that nowhere on my transcript does it mark any disciplinary action and lists me to be in good standing after every single semester.
- Should I disclose and write an addendum?38 votes
- Yes, disclose.57.89%
- If it's not on the transcript than it doesn't count.42.11%
Comments
I'm in the same boat, but it is always better to disclose than not to. The bar also does a character/fitness check and if there's a discrepancy between your LS app and their check... well, that's no bueno.
The C&F addendum is like 2 paragraphs and doesn't matter much in the sense of impacting your application for having a "strike" for conduct. If law schools penalized for people being dumb their freshman year, I'd bet that half of all applicants would be disqualified.
This link shows how simple the addendum can be - just state the 5 W's, how you atoned for your massive sin of underage drinking, and what you learned from it: http://lawschooladvice.com/how-to-write-a-law-school-addendum/
It's always better to over-disclose than to under-disclose. It could even look good in a way in that while your official transcript says nothing about any conduct discipline, your going above and beyond by disclosing shows a positive about your character in being forthright and honest.
As long as your disclosures don't show a pattern of questionable behavior (getting written up every weekend, etc.), the admissions team won't care. Everyone slips up. But being honest about it goes a long way to demonstrate that you're an honest person.
@rene4231 I am in literally in the exact same situation. I actually called the office of the school yesterday to confirm that they wiped my "incident" from the record, and they have no record of it anywhere.
@shanedrider 's advice is definitely sound, but it's so tempting to say nothing ?
I seriously don't understand the point of disclosing this, given that the school itself has no record of the incident. I think in general it's a good idea to over disclose - particularly when the cops are involved - but c'mon, should we disclose every single instance of an RA complaining for a party being too loud or issuing a warning for a noise complaint over the weekend? It's like us saying, "Hey look at my great application, but I just really want you all to know about this thing I did that could possibly make you reconsider accepting me. Thanks!" As for a discrepancy between bar C&F and law school C&F, well there wouldn't be one because you wouldn't disclose it on either...
@rene4231
It seems to me that Socrat is probably right that neither the bar nor law schools would ever uncover it if you decided not to disclose this. He is likely even right that a rational cost benefit analysis pitting the very slight chance that your admissions decisions will be effected by disclosure against the miniscule chance of your omission being discovered would favor hiding the truth.
Nonetheless, he is wrong that your interaction was comparable to a noise complaint, may be wrong that there is no record of it (there could be a record not listed on the transcript), and is definitely wrong to imply that the experience was not one of gravity.
If you hadn't remembered it, it wouldn't have had much importance. But you have remembered it and kicked yourself over it for years. It is likely among your most visceral experiences of dealing with authorities doling out punishments for actions which break a code of justice. I'd imagine you are still grateful it didn't somehow end up as an MIP, frustrated with the capricious nature of who is caught and who isn't, and possibly are still somewhat upset with an unjustified or unreasonable rule.
Maybe I've got your mix of emotions somewhat wrong.
I don't know precisely what area of law you are interested in. But, we want to be lawyers. It seems to me that it's probably a good thing if just a couple of us have experienced even a somewhat less serious version og personal interaction with the enforcement of the rules which underguard our society.
In the addendum you get to make that case whether implicitly or explicitly and the admissions committee gets to see that you will advocate for justice.
Best of all, when they admit you, they will have admitted the real you on the basis of all your experiences including the one which pops immediately into your mind as the one thing that you are slightly afraid of having to disclose.
always better to disclose - you never know what silly thing could ruin your professional life after you graduate law school
I agree; it's probably wrong to dismiss this incident as trivial. I also failed to read the part about being on disciplinary probation, so answering no to a question that asks this would be dishonest. Disclosing is probably the right move, and assuming you give an honest evaluation of your thoughts, your addendum will definitely show remorse and transparency, and law schools appreciate that. This incident won't make a meaningful impact on your admissions.
Most of the C&F prompts I've read would seem to require you to disclose this. The language on those is usually pretty clear, so read closely and if there is any room at all for ambiguity, disclose. I got a ticket for an expired license plate after my apps were all turned in, which is a misdemeanor, and I had to contact several schools to tell them. Stupid? Absolutely. Required by their C&F policies? Yep.
Something like this is not going to kill your application. You'll be fine. Write what happened, state that you regret and learned from the incident, and note that there have been no further incidents since. Be concise.
Do you know if this affected your cycle? I recently got a misdemeanor for speeding in AZ
Disclose. Always. There are people who have been fucked over by the bar's C&F due to discrepancies. If you're that worried about it, hire a consultant professional like @"David.Busis" to help you craft an addendum. But absolutely 100% disclose if prompted. I believe almost ALL law schools are pretty clear when it comes to these things.
It likely won't affect your cycle in the slightest. I wish all I had on my record was an RA warning from drinking lol
Disclose imo. They won't care and it won't hurt your applications. If they found out about it and you didn't disclose, then you'd be a world of hurt. It might be worth while to discuss with a consulting company to see how schools would view the incident, but I don't think it will matter much.
@"Cant Get Right" I'm going to ask a follow-up question on this. One of my applications goes into great detail on the C&F, and says that you also should explain any traffic violations, even if minor. So do we have to disclose speeding tickets?? Like not even reckless driving, but I think I've maybe been pulled over twice in my lifetime for going like 5 miles over the speed limit. This would seem extremely trivial to me, but they said even minor incidents.
I already have to write an addendum for a Minor in Possession of alcohol from when I was 19.
I second what @Mellow_Z said. It almost certainly won't affect your admissions decision, and they likely wouldn't find out on their own, but you should disclose.