T14 Schools Admissions - Softs

NathanielNathaniel Member
edited November 2017 in Law School Admissions 78 karma

Does anyone have a decent indicator of how much your everything else factors into your apps? I'd have a 3.64 gpa after this semester, with some experiences like campaigns, interning for a district court judge for four months recently, being an Eagle Scout, other Scouting experiences (16 years now), and chairing/leading a strong nonprofit in my community for almost a year

Comments

  • 1000001910000019 Alum Member
    3279 karma

    Depends on the school.

  • samantha.ashley92samantha.ashley92 Alum Member
    edited November 2017 1777 karma

    I've heard that related experience, jobs, and LORs total about 5% of an application, but any of those that are exceptionally great may bring it closer to 10%. Interning for a district court judge would probably be an example of something pushing it to 10%. It could be the difference between being wait listed or rejected.

  • NathanielNathaniel Member
    78 karma

    how much is gpa a factor?

  • NathanielNathaniel Member
    78 karma

    A professor of mine who talks with other admission officers, I think it was Stanford, told me one of Stanford's admission people said 9/10 people who apply with a 180 LSAT and 4.0 GPA do not get accepted, with more people being accepted with lower GPAs/LSATs (170 max) because they have the everything else. Any thoughts?

  • Rigid DesignatorRigid Designator Alum Member
    1091 karma

    @Nathaniel said:
    A professor of mine who talks with other admission officers, I think it was Stanford, told me one of Stanford's admission people said 9/10 people who apply with a 180 LSAT and 4.0 GPA do not get accepted, with more people being accepted with lower GPAs/LSATs (170 max) because they have the everything else. Any thoughts?

    I'm extremely sceptical that that's true. It sounds like urban myth to me. The available data paints a totally different picture. It's self reported data but take this for instance: http://users.lawschoolnumbers.com/gpa-4/lsat-180

  • NathanielNathaniel Member
    78 karma

    sorry, to clarify it's those without really strong letters of recommendation or experiences.

    The Stanford officer person said lower GPA/LSAT scores than a 4.0/180, with strong everything else, are more likely to be admitted

  • NathanielNathaniel Member
    78 karma

    @"Rigid Designator" said:

    @Nathaniel said:
    A professor of mine who talks with other admission officers, I think it was Stanford, told me one of Stanford's admission people said 9/10 people who apply with a 180 LSAT and 4.0 GPA do not get accepted, with more people being accepted with lower GPAs/LSATs (170 max) because they have the everything else. Any thoughts?

    I'm extremely sceptical that that's true. It sounds like urban myth to me. The available data paints a totally different picture. It's self reported data but take this for instance: http://users.lawschoolnumbers.com/gpa-4/lsat-180

    this is a small sample size though. very small

  • Seeking PerfectionSeeking Perfection Alum Member
    4428 karma

    @Nathaniel said:
    A professor of mine who talks with other admission officers, I think it was Stanford, told me one of Stanford's admission people said 9/10 people who apply with a 180 LSAT and 4.0 GPA do not get accepted, with more people being accepted with lower GPAs/LSATs (170 max) because they have the everything else. Any thoughts?

    That is just not true. If you go on law school numbers you can see that of the 24 people who have applied to Stanford in the past ten years with a 3.9 or higher and a 180 and listed their application on law school numbers, 21 got in, 2 got waitlisted, and 1 was rejected.
    http://mylsn.info/63ht8y/

    Now this isn't a random sample, but people post their appplication before they find out their results so unless law school numbers users are doing much better guven the same statistics than the rest of the population of applicants (which isn't born out in the rest of the data) about 80 percent of such applicants get in.

    Stanford is known for placing a premium on GPA and having a slightly stronger desire for strong softs like work experience than other schools. Therefore, they do care less about LSAT score than other top schools, but more about GPA. This is reflected by their GPA stats: 25th percentile 3.75, median 3.87, 75th percentile 3.95. The same figures for their LSAT are168, 171, and173. So yes 25 percent of Stanford's class has LSAT's below 168, but many of these are probably reverse splitters with GPA's above the 75th of 3.95, URM's, or people with truly incredible softs.

    A higher LSAT can only help. Additionally, what makes you think that the people with high LSAT's and high GPA's are likely not to "have everything else"? Your softs sound fine for someone applying from college. However, many law school applicants have worked for a few years so they have a more significant soft than you unless you do the same. I'm applying straight from undergrad, but fully expect my soft factors to be judged as slightly lesser than thise who literally have started careers. I'm hoping my LSAT and GPA are good enough that schools will bite anyway.

    Good luck with your application!

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