Can I have some pity?

terrynicholasj

Howdy folks,

Anyone studying for the December test?

These forums can be encouraging but at the same time disheartening. Supposedly only 2% of people score a 170+ but it seems like everyone on here is angry if they don't get a 174. There's stories on here of people score a 170 on their first exam... I've been studying almost full time for a little over a month, and managed to get my first 163 two weeks ago, and scored 2 more since, but haven't been able to improve AT ALL since. I changed from old tests to new tests (prep test 69 just finished) in preparation for December, but I'm not sure if I'm going to take it. I was getting ROCKED in the old lsat (early/mid 1990's) logic games, so I worked really hard on those and now I only get -4 to -6 wrong on those, but now my logic reasoning has dropped from a -3/-5 to about a -6ish. Does this seem to be the trend on the newer tests v.s. the older ones?

I have until November 18th I guess to decide if I'm going to write or wait until February. I've applied to Western and University of Toronto here up north, and then I will apply to UBC as well. I know I need a 165 at LEAST even for just Western and UBC, especially since my undergrad GPA was only a 3.48. I never thought I would apply for postgraduate school. If I can't get a 170, U of T is out of the question, and it might be anyways even if I got a 180.

Anyways, what do you guys think, is 2.5 weeks going to get me to a 170? hahah I doubt it. If I apply in February, I probably need to score even higher since it's a rolling admission and that's close to the end. Anyone have thoughts? Advice? I'm feeling drained.

10000019

If you've being studying for less than two months, I don't think anyone is going to have pity for you.
Is delaying to another cycle possible for you?

nathanieljschwartz

Yeah i agree with @10000019 on this. For many of us it took months to get to a 163. I would suggest pushing to february if you think you can gain some points between now and then

akistotle

If you’re not getting -0 on LG, I recommend foolproofing games. Are you enrolled in 7Sage? If not, there are still plenty of free LG explanations available.

terrynicholasj

I agree that it took lots of people months, but if I'm not mistaken I think most people do it part time? I've been probably doing 20-30, maybe 40+(for one or two) hours a week on average. It's hard to study for much more than that. In my mind this is similar to people who study for three months on a more part time basis.

I'm not really partial to which exam I write, it's what has a better chance of getting me in. I do think I can get the points, but it is definitely a risk. What if I've just hit a wall and I'm not getting any better? It sure feels that way some days.

terrynicholasj

Thanks akistotle. I have been trying to foolproof games, but it's a challenge. I'll do the same game 5 times, even sometimes the same day, and I still can't make the same key inferences that seem so easy in the video explanations. I can't put my finger on what it is. But you bet, I've been going back and redoing old games over and over until I've mastered them, and I watch all of the 7sage videos. Like many, I wish 7sage had a better marketing strategy and that I had known sooner. When researching LSAT stuff I looked exclusively at books because I had an old school notion about studying for the exam, and then it was sort of too late. If I decide to write in february I will definitely try 7sage for a bit.

nathanieljschwartz

Speaking from experiance, i have been studying 30/35 hrs a week while working, for 14 months. Im just thick lol. But the LSAT doesnt work by cramming, you have to let the techniques soak up like a sponge, so in my opinion doing 35 hrs a week is less efficient than 35 hrs over a longer period of time.
If you wanna see the biggest improvement just kill the LG section. Foolproof as many games as you can and rlly pay attention to the inferences, get as close to -0 as you can, LR is much harder to improve on bc there ar so many variables, i would suggest just getting the fundementals down if your on a time crunch

Alex

@terrynicholasj

Been studying for a month and at a 163 ... no pity for you

Haha! It sucks but progression isn't always linear!

What books/course have you used thus far for studying? What are you section breakdowns?

No, I don't think you'll get from a 163 to a 170 in a few weeks, haha. Each point after a 165 becomes painfully hard to get because there's no more "stupid" mistakes. You know most of the strategy and it's a matter of practice at that point. Don't be discouraged though because I truly believe that with the progress you have already made that you will be able to hit the 170. It's just a matter of time! Keep up the good work!

terrynicholasj

@alexdivine I broke the powerscore books down into my own personal "cheat sheets", and contrary to many found it most useful for the LR section. After each exam, I blind review my wrong answers and use my cheatsheet to take the formulaic approach to the question. For logic games I use 7sage...

@nathanieljschwartz I TOTALLY agree. However, my true dream is to be an air force pilot, but that isn't working out at the moment, and I don't know if I'm going to make it in. It sounded to me for a while that I was, but they still haven't called, and so this is sort of my back up plan. Don't get me wrong, the idea of studying law still sounds AWESOME, not a bad second choice, but I didn't really realize until it was too late that I should start studying. I thought deadlines would be in march, not November for law schools... So I want to get in for the 2018 year which is why I'm cramming.

Seeking Perfection

Maybe wait a cycle? Don't admissions cycles start a little earlier in Canada? If so February might be too late.

I'm pretty sure that as far as 7sage is concerned I tended toward the less high side of the studying because I started out with a good score. I still studied for 3 months full time over the summer(I had a part time job, but studied around 50 hours a week on average).

Additionally, a lot of people here don't have flawless GPAs. But we have realized that the lsat is completely learnable. So if we can compensate by studying(however many hours it takes) we will do it. If 174 were the score which tends to thrill people it is probably because they want to be above median at every school.

I'm not sure I exactly feel pity for you, especially compared to the people who spend years studying similar amounts of hours per week while working full time. But, I will say that the LSAT isn't fair. There are people for whom it comes naturally and people who have to really grind at it. And you are not the most lucky in that department (you also are not the least lucky). That's not fair to you and it's not fair to those who have to work even harder than you to do well at the test. But eventually you are going to get to law school which is going to test some different, but related skills and regardless of how naturally they come to you it's going to be to your benefit that you learned how to engage in a prolonged period of grinding study.

terrynicholasj

@"Seeking Perfection" I agree. I should clarify, I didn't use 'full time' correctly. I still work, and I've had a couple of trips I've had to go on, and looking back 20-40 hours/week is not the right guess, it's definitely closer to 40ish hours or more at least on average, I just don't keep diligent records of how often I study. I wake up, study, hit the gym, study, dinner, etc. Plus, writing an LSAT is a good 2.5 hour process but it always feels like way less. When I'm not working and when do I work and then study. I digress.

I feel like I've hit a wall and I'm quite frustrated, scores aside, I think it's frustrating for everyone at any level when they don't feel like they are improving, whether going from a 150 to a 160 or from a 170 to a 174. I'm taking the advise of people on this forum and others and I'm going to wait for the February LSAT. This will still give me a shot at some of the Canadian schools I applied to even though it's at the end of their rolling admissions, and then I can see what some of the American school deadlines are and see if that makes any sense. I really should have left myself more time.

Thanks everyone, Im feeling a bit better. Time for prep test 70 and beyond... (well, I'll actually go back down to some older ones now that I'm doing it in February and save the last bundle for the weeks before).

mcmlaw36

Fellow Canadian here! Minor fyi: Western definitely doesn't require 165+. I'd say 160+ is safe.

terrynicholasj

@mcmlaw36 Yes, but did you see my GPA? Their website says at least a 3.7....

BD

@terrynicholasj said:
@mcmlaw36 Yes, but did you see my GPA? Their website says at least a 3.7....

They take into consideration both your cGPA and the last 2 years of your undergrad! With the emphasis on the latter.

So with a cGPA of 3.48 (assuming it's on the OLSAS scale) and a slightly higher L2, 160+ will get you in - albeit a bit later in the cycle (March/April).
U of T looks at your best 3 years and UBC uses an index formula (also drops a few of your lowest grades)!

I suggest you write in December as well as February if you want to reach your goal score of 165+. I think it's doable.

Lsatbreakingnews

Put the work in and your scores will reflect. No shortcuts.

Leah M B

Agreed with a lot of the above. Also it seems very common to hit a plateau in the mid 160s. I started with diagnostic 155 in February and studied off and on from then through the summer, buckling down in the last few months and now am pretty consistently 164-166. And from all accounts I've heard, from that point up it's pretty much just a grind. Every point is a battle. I'm taking the test in December, and probably also again in February figuring if nothing else, I can use Feb for scholarship negotiations. But also keeping in mind that I may be better off re-applying next cycle with an even higher LSAT. A similar strategy might work for you, although I know nothing about Canadian schools for acceptance and such.

So really, all you can do is buckle down, keep your nose to the grind stone, and do what you can. I'd recommend probably just taking in December but if you really think you need a higher score to be accepted, consider taking another year to work on the test. You've done really well with a short amount of time, but this test isn't kind to cramming.

jennybbbbb

I honestly think you can do it. Don't feel discouraged. I am PTing 157 average and hoping to bump it upto 163 by December and if not, I will write December and February. A lot of Canadian schools accept February plus they calculate GPA differently. Fool proof the games and work on BR. BR is key in improving your score. Find your weaknesses and drill them down. Sometimes its a matter of taking a different perspective and reviewing concepts. I am also applying to Canadian law schools and I honestly think you have a chance to improve by December! Feel free me to inbox me if you want to talk about this further!

Cant Get Right

For whatever it's worth, you are WAY ahead of where I was after a month. I'm not sure you have an accurate sense of the time lines of many of the top performers on 7Sage. I began studying in 2015 with a high 140's diagnostic. 163 took me about 6 months. Sure, there are folks that 180 it after a few months, but I've never heard of it happening in a little over one month and of the probably thousands of LSAT students I've encountered, I can count on one hand the number of cases I've even heard of breaking that kind of score in less than 6 months.

terrynicholasj

Hi guys,

So I thought the deadline to change was November 18th, but I guess I was wrong? No idea how I screwed that one up. If I write here in December, and score say a 163, and then I write again in February and manage a 170 or something, how big of an effect do you think this will have on my competitiveness with any given school?

chicaryss

Many schools do not take the February exam so if you don't get the score you want in December and get what you want in February, it is a good idea to re-apply the next cycle. As far as west coast schools go, only U of A averages your scores. The others take your highest score, regardless of how many times you write. Hard to say which schools will accept your 170 because acceptance also depends on how they evaluate your GPA. U of A looks at your latest 60 credits and UBC and UVic drop some of your lowest credits. Overall, having looked at acceptances from last year, a 170 still gives you a great shot at some west coast schools.

I'm in the same boat as those who say that one month isn't very long, even with full-time studying. That being said, 40+ hours a week is a lot of studying and has the potential to burn people out. People plateau for lots of reasons and burnout is a huge one.

Habeas Porpoise

@terrynicholasj You can still withdraw until the night before the test and it won't show up on your record -- but you won't get a refund on your registration payment (since you didn't change before the deadline). From the day of the test through the sixth day after the day of administration you can cancel your score, but the cancellation will show up on your record.