@ said:

Will the relative increase in absolute number of high scorers VS low scorers somehow affect the percentile assigned to each score? Eg. 172 becomes 97.5th percentile VS ~99th?

I was noticing in the Spivey data..that among the test taking pool a 173 is top 0.9%, but among the applicant pool it is only like top 2.75% if my memory serves me right, and I'm sure it would be that way for numerous other scores down and up the scale since those scoring in the 120's/130's/140's aren't submitting apps. Just an interesting thing to note that our test percentile is actually prob watered down among our fellow applicants

@ @ i've been wondering why he thinks that too! if you go back and look historically, once an upswing starts, it's not a one-year affair... and why would the trump bump be only a one year thing?

I took both... then called around to the T20ish schools that were accepting the GRE, and at least a few months ago when I did this, they said they were looking for GRE scores in the top 3-5% on EVERY section V/Q/AWA to be competitive, and they did not express a stated preference for the verbal over the quant section, so take that as you will.

@ I have a major gpa of 3.4

@ haha I also am not a proficient touch typer.. thank you for the in-depth response! Yeah I guess I would say my main re-taking fear would be having a bad day and scoring even say a 170-172 (I had one 174 PT but most were in that low 170's range) and then I just can't believe that wouldn't lessen the luster of my 173 at least a little. I went -4LR/-3RC/-2LG with both LG incorrects being rule substitution q's. I was normally a -0/1LG guy so that did bother me.

On the other hand, I did take a full month off of studying a few months before my test and my PT's had improved like 2 pts on avg from the break so that makes me think another return from break could see another performance step-up.

If I end up not getting T14 admission I will be kicking myself if an extra LSAT point or two could've made the difference. The ( 3.0/)170 data on myLSN is so slim it is hard to gauge, especially when you are just pushing yourself from 3 pts above a 75th line to 4 or 5 pts above.

@ can you walk me through your motivations for re-taking when already at a 172? I have a 173 but a sub 3.0 GPA and so am mulling over a re-take. Also would be interested to hear about your experience starting studying back up, already answering questions at over a 90% clip, what did returning to studying look like? Thanks in advance.

@ said:

Definitely apply early and put extra effort into your PS and GPA addendum. It's always hard to predict splitters, especially as extreme as you, but odds are good you'll get into at least one t14. I would apply everywhere but t6, write every Why School X and optional essay they offer and treat them as essential, because for you they truly are. Since you have an extra year yet, I'd say plan on retaking the LSAT. If you don't feel like you can boost your score, than don't test, but even a single point would be well worth it.

Thank you for the advice.

@ said:

@ said:

Hi all, with a 2.92 GPA / 173 LSAT can I reasonably think about schools in the latter half of the T15 (#7-15) range? Or are those "reaches"? If they're reaches, where would my "targets" be?

Some background: Econ/Poli Sci major from a top public school, rough first 2 years for grades with improvement later on, have been out of school for 2 years now.

If my chances aren't looking good - what should I be doing to buoy them? Re-take for 1-2 more pts?? Take the GRE for another 'good' data point?

Thanks in advance for your input, I really appreciate the noticeably kinder demeanor from this community in comparison with other Pre-Law forums on the internet...

Hey!

So, UPenn, UMich, Duke, Berk, and Cornell will be super reaches. But Northwestern, UT Austin, GT, and UCLA seem like they're in play. Even UVA is known to love a high GPA.

I don't think taking the GRE will help much since your LSAT score will be reported as well. If you're not applying this cycle, retaking for a few points higher would only help.

I think I'd consider working with a professional consultant like @ to get tailored advice on how to navigate your cycle. You'll want to make sure to craft a good addendum to explain your grades and put together a great app to highlight what makes you a good candidate.

As it stands now, however, I think you have a good to moderate shot at NU, UT Austin, and Georgetown. I can't see you striking out of the T14 completely with such a high LSAT. Apply broadly and hope for the best.

Best of luck

Thank you, that was helpful. Best of luck with your cycle as well.

@ said:

Hey! What's up fellow splitter. I'm a 2.83/171 applicant. And right now I've applied and am going through hell....lol but my situation is unique I believe.

That said, I think you'll have a good shot. Apply early, build your resume, make sure your softs are strong, and you'll have a chance!

Hey man I actually have been following along with you once I saw your stats! Hoping they don't look too harshly upon us splitters...good luck the rest of this cycle!!

@ said:

People with your stats have gotten into T15 schools. It’s getting pretty late in the cycle tho

Oops forgot to mention I am not applying this cycle. Thanks.

@ said:

I've switched to a flip phone. It's been a game changer.

haha mannn i've really been contemplating that but then rationalized that sometimes I really do need maps/gps and email on the go for instance

@ update on your cycle? i'll be a splitter applying in the future and wondering how high up I can aim

@ said:

Im a bit higher but still a splitter. Mines almost 18 years old and it can be souls crushing especially with 2 Masters at 4.0... that count for Zero...

The biggest thing is to hit that 75% LSAT number to get in... but so far my experience has been the GPA still costs me 10-40k in scholarship $$$.

I helped tutor someone and they ended up with the same LSAT but they have a 3.8 UGPA so we are great comparisons. Only 1 school didn't penalize me for my GPA compared to him.

so you have had good admission results at schools where you are above the 75th lsat and just not good scholarship results?

@ said:

If you are looking to clerk and teach then I think a strong argument can be made for Virginia. Check my post above Virginia does great with clerkships and it is much easier to break into academia coming from a more prestigious school.

Yeah it does make sense I know haha just in sticker shock.. I guess it comes down to how likely it is that I think I can stay on their LRAP/how generous it is.

@ said:

@ said:

I'm in the same boat @ ! UVA is my top choice but the thought of paying sticker is really stressing me out. I'm interested in clerking/government but I'm not completely opposed to BL either. Are you going to the Admitted Student Open House?

Yup! So excited to see the campus and C'ville

Checking in as I too am weighing UVA @ sticker (250k debt burden upon graduation) vs. WashU with a nice scholly (90k debt burden at graduation) and Wisconsin with 30k debt. Also sitting on 4 T14 WL's FWIW.

I would like to clerk and potentially move into teaching mid-career if I have the right grades so that certainly makes the decision harder. The difference between us is that I do NOT want to do BL, so I need to delve further into the LRAP to see if that makes those $3k/mo. loan payments actually feasible at a severely discounted rate if I do government work (which is what I want to do anyways).

Anyone else stuck in the sticker boat or have any thoughts about it?

@ said:

To clarify, are you basically asking if UCI is a good school to go to? Like, what are your job prospects?

If that's the question, I think UCI will serve you well. Yes, it's a new school. But it already has a very good reputation. Their employment and bar passage statistics are all great. I kinda feel like people who go there now in these early years are getting a bargain, I think it'll continue climbing the ranks.

You should definitely send UCLA a LOCI if you haven't already. The only other option I suppose would be to push back again, keep studying and re-take the LSAT and see if you can crack 170. Splitter cycles are just always really unpredictable. I saw that Spivey said though that he suspects next year's cycle will be less competitive than the current one, so if that's true it could also be in your favor.

Are these the only schools you applied to?

Interesting. Why do you think they think next year will be less competitive? I guess I had been fearing that each successive year would be more and more competitive now that LSAT takers and applications had started rebounding after their nadir, and the "Trump bump" (and throw in GRE applicants)

@ said:

I had a friend who had a ~2.9/177 and got a full ride from UVA.

I'm guessing you could get the same from a lesser-ranked school - somewhere where you are far above their 75th percentile LSAT.

would you consider +3pts over the 75th "far above"?

Is there anything to do besides submit FAFSA inbetween submitting and waiting for decisions? Was wondering that myself the other day.