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katrakkade441

Joined: Apr 2025
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General · Michigan 2L AMA

katrakkade441

Wednesday, Dec 09 2020

@lexxx74569 said:

following up. were you able to get a biglaw summer associateship for your 2l summer?

I did not. I worked at the small local firm that I was already working at part time during the school year. I worked there during the summer, mostly remotely, but going in once or twice a week, I am working there part-time again during this school year. I am very happy there, like the poeple, and given my lack of substantial debt, would be happy to stay there. That said, they have not extended a formal offer yet, so I am applying to other jobs including through our OCI meet-the-employers week which is held through Zoom. However, few of the firms interview 3L's relative to 2L's. The counselors assure me that the number of jobs in smaller firms and public interest opportunities in Michigan that we can apply to through our job board on Symplicity will increase in the Spring relative to now.

I don't have a great sense of how many of my peers have jobs. It was my feeling that the majority who wanted summer positions through OCI got them. However, at least some were cancelled or shortened during the pandemic and so fewer than normal may result in actual job offers after graduation.

LSAT · Logic Games from PT 1-35

katrakkade441

Sunday, Jul 12 2020

I did and it worked. I went from not being able to complete the section to usually getting it perfect, but struggling with time every once in a while after foolproofing 1-35.

I then foolproofed newer games from exams I had already taken and continued to decrease how often I couldn't finish the section.

1-35 took me about two months. After I somewhat improved, I started using the Pacifico method instead of printing 10 games.

I did a section of new games every week day. I'd complete them once trying to finish in 35 minutes, but taking longer if needed. Then I watched the explanation videos. Then I did them again. If that wasn't done within 35 minutes or if I particularly struggled with an individual game, I would watch the video(s) again and repeat.

Then I would retake the section from the last day of LG practice(I did this every week day, did PTs and blind review on Saturdays, and rested on Sundays).

And I would also retake those from the week before.

If in any case I couldn't complete the section in 35 minutes I watched the explanations and took the section again.

I didn't, but you could do games from 4 weeks before too if it takes long enough.

Don't cheat yourself. You will remember some of the correct answers, but you need to be able to prove every answer in the allowed time.

Anyways, this works out to doing a minimum of 4 sections of games a day(1 twice and 2 other sections from a week and month before). So it is basically like a PT of just logic games every day. That takes 45 days of logic games practice with the first and last weeks being lighter. If you do that 5 days a week, it takes 9 weeks.

I scheduled it out ahead of time in an excel document that I printed and checked off when I completed each game. I also printed 4 copies of each game and put them in two massive binders with a plastic sleeve for each game that way I only had to make copies if I was slow on a repeated section (times may have changed for this w/ the digital LSAT).

I wouldn't push it much faster than that to avoid burning out on games. That means August 31st would be cutting it pretty close and wouldn't leave you much time to do anything other than the foolproofing and some weekend PTs.

General · what should be lsat goal score?

katrakkade441

Saturday, Feb 22 2020

@zkgabrielson638 said:

I read a comment on here of someone scoring 172&180 and having a 3.81 and still getting a few rejections (as well as some great acceptances!). I don't know their fully story/application at all of course, just read that one comment. But it definitely feels like there are no guarantees.

That would be me(I assume there isn't another person fitting that description), I have been kind of busy to come back to comment as much as I was for a while, but I just happened to come back and see this comment.

I ended up taking a $150,000 dollar scholarship to U of M(Michigan is my home state where I plan to stay). I also got in to Columbia(Not much aid), Duke(matched U of M), and WUSTL(independently offered $150,000 which was full tuition for them, but not for Duke or Michigan).

Stanford and I think Harvard rejected me. I was waitlisted everywhere else in the Top 14 including Yale. I gave a token effort to get off the waitlist at Yale and didn't try anywhere else.

The waitlists were probably yield protection, but you can get by those if you write letters of continued interest and probably can avoid them better than I did by spending more time writing convincing Why X essays.

And my GPA obviously wasn't above 75th everywhere. MYLSN seemed to be the best prediction resource when I applied. I'd also go to law school numbers and sort by LSAT and look at what percentage of the people with each score/GPA are getting what scholarships.

https://mylsn.info/r/pre-law/admissions/search/

But the overall moral of the story is that you are probably set for getting in with some money if you can get above median and definitely above 75th.

If you do get an above 75th LSAT, then you should to look school by school if you want to see how competitiive the full tuition scholarships, like the Darrow, the Rubenstein, (NYUs list of different ones) etc are. If you can get one of those options they may be a better value than a spot at Harvard, Yale, or Stanford which only give out need based aid and not very much at that.

General · Michigan 2L AMA

katrakkade441

Monday, Nov 04 2019

@luuppeter847 said:

Hi I'm applying to Michigan right now. I wanted to learn more about the school. What is the law school culture like there? How do you like your professors and classmates? How do you like the Ann Arbor? I'm from California, and I've never been to Michigan. In your experience how have students from other states adapted to Ann Arbor?

Sorry for the delay. I'm not on 7 Sage as much as I once was.

I know a few people from California. I think for the most part they like things here. However, some may find Ann Arbor a little small especially if they don't have a car to drive into Detroit. You are busy enough in law school that finding things to do isn't too much of a problem though.

Obviously, the climate takes some people some getting used to. It's cold most of the year. We had our first substantial snowfall Friday and while it didn't really stick, it will within the next month and then things will probably be fairly snowy until April. If you are looking at U Chicago, Northwestern, or Cornell I imagine climate is roughly similar. I'm a native Michigander so its fun to tease my friends a little when they think it's cold. I and a friend from the UP walked out of the Lawyer's Club to get some food from Jimmy Johns during the cold day last year and teased them for thinking it was too cold to go out. My friend from the UP didn't where gloves which I thought was a bit bold.

Most students are from other states. I'd say its about 15-20 percent in-state, but you could probably check that.

I think the environment has been very nice. People are friendly with each other. Like what I have heard about most other schools you tend to make most of your first year friends in your section (since you have all your classes together). Beyond that, if you stay in the Lawyer's Club for 1L you'll probably settle down into eating with basically the same people twice a day except for days where you go to a lunch talk. That and the binding experience of 1L forges lasting friendships quickly. It has actually made it kind of hard to stop living in the Lawyer's Club. I'm commuting from home to save money, but both this summer and even now it feels a little off spending less time with my 1L core group that I was so close to for the first year. It doesn't help that one of them decided not to continue in law school after the summer(despite doing fairly well in the first year as far as I know) and therefore isn't around anymore.

For people who didn't bond as closely to people in their section or through the lawyer's club, student orgs and pro bono are great ways to meet friend.

The professors are brilliant and generally good teachers. A couple have been amazing lecturers. Honestly, if I wasn't paying for law school and was not going to be a lawyer, I would still want to be in most of my classes just for the interesting and thought provoking discussions. In fact, since I'm still not fully sure how long I'll want to be a lawyer and got a great scholarship in a way that is kind of what I am doing. All of them have always been very open and approachable during office hours too although office hours tended to be pretty full of students first semester.

I could go on and on, but long story short, I've liked it.

Admissions · NYU Chances?

katrakkade441

Thursday, Oct 17 2019

https://mylsn.info/zp3qcg/

You can fill in more things if you want to get a slightly better prediction. I just used the default settings and your GPA and LSAT score.

How much did you study for the LSAT? Did you get a perfect score on the logic games section?

Because of your excellent GPA, if you could get a few more points on the LSAT there are a lot of schools where it would make a huge difference to your liklihood of getting in and your liklihood of getting a big scholarship.

https://mylsn.info/nf1z44/

General · Michigan 2L AMA

katrakkade441

Thursday, Oct 17 2019

@lexxx74569 said:

Can I ask what your GPA and LSAT was to get that big of a scholarship at Michigan?

I went straight through. So I had a 3.81 when they admitted me and when they extended the scholarship offer and a 3.84 when I graduated.

I took the LSAT twice getting a 172 initially and then a 180 after foolproofing logic games and blind reviewing almost all of the practice tests.

General · Michigan 2L AMA

katrakkade441

Thursday, Oct 17 2019

@nguyenm1213578 said:

No question but wanted to pop in and say Go Blue! (and good luck!)

Go blue!

General · Michigan 2L AMA

katrakkade441

Wednesday, Oct 16 2019

@53333 said:

Thanks so much for posting this @sjeong291240 ! I've been researching into different law schools' programs and I noticed that Michigan has an extensive list of clinical programs. I know you are just starting your second year so you may not have had exposure to the clinical programs but if you do have such experience I was hoping to hear about them.

I haven't taken a clinic yet, but I do plan on it even though I have the part time job now. If you bid on two clinics for all four semesters after 1 L, you are guaranteed one.

I know many people in clinics and it seems like they are a great way to get very closely supervised experience. Michigan's number of clinics mean you can probably get something in whatever area you want.

My criminal law professor directs the Michigan Innocence Clinic which just had an event a few days ago where someone they had exonerated came and spoke.

General · Michigan 2L AMA

katrakkade441

Wednesday, Oct 16 2019

@31496 said:

3L big law hunting is hard but it's worth a try.

despite bidding the least grade selective firms that I could and focussing heavilly on Michigan firms where my ties should have been appealing

I'd like to point out to future bidders for U of M that limiting yourself to Michigan is not doing yourself any favors. U of M places heavily in NY.

A few questions on your OCI experience:

Did you do mock interviews?

Any thoughts on why you didn't get any callbacks?

How did your classmates do?

How has career services supported you post OCI?

if I wanted Big Law, I would have been better off aggressively applying to lots of firm jobs as a 1L.

No harm in aiming for a 1L SA position but they are extremely difficult to land outside diversity and IP (not to say they are easy to get from either of those groups).

Sorry this is long winded, but I'm a faster typer now and don't have time to edit it.

1L Big Law positions are much rarer.

However, almost everyone counts as diversity for law firms. You can apply to diversity positions if you are a first generation law student, any non-white race, female, gay, certain religions ect. So for me, I'm a first generation law student even though my mom has a PhD and my dad two Master's degrees. My dad is from India, which like most Asian countries is a disadvantage in undergraduate admissions and roughly neutral in law school admissions.

So, it feels awkward because we think of diversity as helping groups that are discriminated against, but firms use it in a much broader sense.

Most 1Ls I knew didn't apply for a lot of firm positions because we knew they were rare and there is no streamlined process like with OCI. However, a surprising number of those who did got one. Many of those who got them got them before grades came out from first semester. That takes almost all of the risk out of it, if you can do it. It's hard to apply to many because you are so busy during 1L, but if you came in with a couple versions of cover letters ready, went over your resume with your counselor earlier than most do and maybe had tried to make a list of firms with diversity positions ahead of time, I think a student at Michigan could probably have a fair shot at landing one. It will be even more plausible now that the start date for applying has changed. At the very least you get more interviewing practice earlier.

On applying mostly in the small market your school is in with ties to the market

There were roughly 30 people in my class aiming for Big Law jobs in Michigan. Of those, maybe 25 had really good ties to Michigan. Most of those have firm positions lined up, but it is hard to tell exactly how many and outside of my super section, I don't have any idea what their grades were.

I think my bidding strategy was fine. However, a couple more big grade unselective New York firms at the top of my list might have been good and I still sould have got most of my Michigan bids.

On OCI

1). I did three mock interviews. I did one with a New York firm that visited during 1L and did mock interviews. They didn't give much feedback though. The other two I did with OCP. They gave a lot of feedback about how to frame different answers and how to structure a response to the situational questions.

As far as why I didn't get call backs, I think there were two main reasons.

First, I don't think I interview very well. My voice tends to get quiet during conversations when I'm nervous.

Additionally, while I don't think I over-practiced for interviews I probably steered things back to me and my credentials and what I was prepared to talk about too much rather than just going with the flow of the conversation. A lot of people I know who got offers talked about rather random things in their interview which led to a job. The hobbies or interests section of your resume definitely better be something you are prepared to start an interesting conversation about. For a single line, it gets a lot of focus.

How did my class mates do? That's always hard to say. I had a really strong small core friend group that I was always going to know what happened with their employment. Of those 5, everyone got a Big Law job except me. One had grades higher than median. One had compable grades to me(a little below median). I don't know about the other two's grades exactly, but don't think their grades were stratospheric. 3 of those got their job through OCI and one shortly after.

I know one person who is still looking for a Big Law job. We were expressing our angst together about not having found a job until I did.

I know a bunch who found Big Law jobs, but don't know if I would have known if they hadn't.

Overall, I don't think the economy is hurting our placement much yet. However, several firms did tell me they were interviewing for fewer spots than the year before.

Post OCI, I have been in regular contact with OCP. They have given me access to some resources and the job I found was through Symplicity, but they haven't been great. If you come in asking for something specific like them doing a mock interview, going over your resume, going over your bid list, reading over a new cover letter, putting you in contact with a 3L or an alumni, they are great. But if you come in sort of uncertain, they don't do as much.

They have continued to have firms come to campus. And I have interviewed for some of those positions with as few as 5 total people from Michigan interviewing when there were more slots available. So my fellow students probably are not generally that desperate.

I also had the bad luck to have three different main counselors because both of my first two found other jobs. I think that was more of a fluke than anything.

As far as 3L Big Law positions, I probably would have some shot at them since I will have some sort of firm experience. However, I wanted a Big Law job because they generally offer their 2Ls real jobs at a higher rate, not because of the money. I have kept my debt really low and this partime job will help keep it lower. So while a Big Law salary would be nice, I'm not going to switch to a job that I probably won't like that much and will voluntarilly or otherwise leave after only a few years if I think I'll be happy at this smaller firm and they give me an offer at the end of next summer. Obviously, I'll have plenty of time to see if I like the people.

General · Michigan 2L AMA

katrakkade441

Wednesday, Oct 16 2019

@nguyenm1213578 said:

Thank you for doing this. I remember reading your posts. Looking back-and hindsight is always 20/20- is there anything you would have done differently going into law school? For instance, there is a debate about what one should try to learn the summer before 1L, substantively, would you do anything differently? What did you do to prep? I believe I remember you saying you read: Getting To Maybe. Do you recommend a 0L looking at any commercial outlines?

I read Getting to Maybe. I also read most of an Examples and Explanations for Torts.

If I had to do it again, I might do more substantive prep and read E and E's or other supplements for all the 1 L subjects. I wouldn't memorkze them or study doctrine or anything, but would just read them so I had a idea of where all my classes were going. I think that could help with outlining and also make it easier to start taking practice exams sooner.

General · Michigan 2L AMA

katrakkade441

Tuesday, Oct 15 2019

@nguyenm1213578 said:

Thanks for this! And congrats on making it this far without a mountain of debt!!!

If you could go back and approach landing a public interest opportunity differently, what would you do? Do you feel like you used all of Michigan’s resources for students interested in pursuing public interest work?

I think it worked out well. I won't be making enough next summer to have to pay back any of the loan. Additionally, not many people get to go on the record in court defending clients their first summer.

I probably could have taken better advantage of resources if I'd known what I wanted to do. I really just wanted to get a taste of litigation though and definitely got that.

However, if I wanted Big Law, I would have been better off aggressively applying to lots of firm jobs as a 1L. Getting one of these early enough insulates you from your grades since they'll probably ask you back for another summer and ultimately hire you unless your grades are truly awful.

Really, I think anyone with a more specific goal in mind than mine which was basically find some way to get a legal job that will make me happy could do better for themselves by gunning for a good position as a 1L before grades matter as much and potentially before any are even in.

If someone wanted to be a public defender or do criminal defense privately my job was basically the best public interest job they could get.

I think figuring out more of what you actually want to do within law before law school could really let someone take advantage of the 1L summer job search.

General

•

Tuesday, Oct 15 2019

katrakkade441

Michigan 2L AMA

University of Michigan 2L AMA

About me:

To make a long story short...

7 Sage and specifically the Pacifico Attack Strategy helped me make a good LSAT score great which enabled me to get a $50,000 a year scholarship to the Top 14 school in my home state of Michigan as a KJD.

https://classic.7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/2737/logic-games-attack-strategy/p1

1L year, I received some fairly ordinary grades which were slightly below median while enjoying learning from some excellent professors and with my extraordinary peers some of whom I consider among my closest friends.

I was not sure if I wanted to pursue a public interest path or seek a firm job. So I applied to some firm positions in a kind of half-hearted way and didn't even get an interview. The first unpaid public interest job that I applied to, a job at the local Public Defender's office, immediately gave me a spot with no request whatsoever for grades or an interview. In part, because you can represent clients on the record in court in Michigan with the Public Defender's Office, I took the job. I financed my summer with a $4000 loan available to all 1Ls that I would only have to repay if I made a certain amount of money combined in my two summers.

At the end of summer, I went through Early Interview Week and despite bidding the least grade selective firms that I could and focussing heavilly on Michigan firms where my ties should have been appealing and interviewing with 25 firms(the max for our EIW), I received 0 call backs.

Since then, I have continued to apply to firms and cold-emailed many with minimal success.

I had only received any further interviews through OCI which has continued to have smaller firms and employers visit our campus.

However, I recently applied to a clerkship position during the academic year with a small firm in the area on Symplicity where employers can post job openings. After sending a follow up email, they immediately offered me an interview later in the week. After the interview which I thought went well, they offered me a position(paid, relatively sparsely compared to Big Law) during the academic year and the upcoming summer. I immediately accepted.

If that eventually turns into a real job, I'll count law school as a success because I have kept my debt pretty low(both through the scholarship and by commuting from my family home now) and will be able to pay it off with even a moderate salary. Within a year or so, I'll have paid off my debt as long as I'm making some money. So, I won't be trapped by debt and will hopefully be a happy lawyer.

That basically brings us to the present.

Ask Me Anything: I'll answer if it doesn't reveal my identity too much more than I already have.

General · Acceptable watch(es) for test day?

katrakkade441

Thursday, May 02 2019

https://www.amazon.com/Casio-MRW200H-7EV-Sport-Resin-Watch/dp/B005JVP0FU/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?keywords=casio+bezel&qid=1556810935&s=gateway&sr=8-4

If you are buying a watch for the LSAT, you want something like this. Mine has a black background and that works fine too.

https://www.amazon.com/Casio-Mens-MRW200H-1EV-Watch-Black/dp/B005JVP0DC/ref=mp_s_a_1_fkmrnull_2?crid=35PWDAVKI914G&keywords=casio+dive+watch&qid=1556811087&s=gateway&sprefix=casio+div&sr=8-2-fkmrnull

The point is that you want one with a bezel around the outside. You turn the bezel and line up the arrow with the minute hand at the start of each section. Then you have till the minute hand gets to the 35 on the bezel. This is a little easier and less stressful than resetting a watch to 12:00. Ideally, the watch should have roman numerals or dots rather than distracting numbers in the center.

Further, most of the cheap watches that have this bezel feature are dive watches. People count on them to keep track of their oxygen supply. So they are both consistent and as a bonus waterproof.

If you already had a usable watch I'd probably go with it. But if you want the absolute best watch for the LSAT, a cheap dive watch will do it.

And when you are done, you'll have a cheap watch you can use to both keep track of the time and time yourself without math when you go to a beach, a pool, or on a run.

Of course, the digital LSAT may render any of those adantages moot if timing is as easy as @yafrcho580 says.

LSAT · Here is how to: foolproof without making thousands of copies

katrakkade441

Friday, Mar 15 2019

@rochishatogare811 said:

Thank you, @ninaleaoishi762 : I hear you! But I guess what I'm asking (and I've tried to post this question about other sections too), does it really matter which PTs we are studying? In other words, why is it better to foolproof Games 1-35, as opposed to Games 36-70? As long as we foolproof a shit ton of games? Anyone?

The main reason to foolproof 1-35 is to leave the newer game sections available for fresh PTs which better predict your actual score and guage your improvement. Since the other sections have changed a little too you would really prefer to take your PTs on the newer tests as much as you can.

When you take a PT you want to use sections entirely from the same test and want them to be fresh if possible so you can look at the score table and find out what your score would have been.

Once you have taken a PT though there is no reason not to foolproof its games.

You want to leave quite a few of these newer game sections for PTs in part because you don't know if you might end up retaking and needing more new PTs available and because they are a really valuable learning tool so you want to take quite a few. Full PTs also better mimic the stress of the test than just practicing one section at a time so you want to take plenty of them.

I'm sure their are old threads on this, but the old games are still similar to new ones. There are a couple more really idiosynchratic older games that don't really fall into a current category. However, games that don't perfectly fit have been popping up again more lately after a long period where it was just the standard game types.

General · Should I retake?

katrakkade441

Sunday, Mar 03 2019

@rominamogtaderi153 said:

@rominamogtaderi153

Thanks! I will be waiting until October 2019 to apply, so I can have the summer to write out my personal statement. I'm hoping for HYS, but I would be beyond thrilled to get in to NYU or Berkeley with good scholarships.

Any advice on the number of schools I should apply to with my stats? I don't want to spend too much money on application fees, but I was thinking to blanket the top 9 minus Chicago (I don't want to go back there....), plus UCLA and UC Irvine, for 10 schools total -- which is still $~800 in application fees. :neutral:

With that score and GPA you should get merit based application fee waivers at pretty much every school below HYS which don't give them out. There is still an LSAC fee each time, but it is $30 or $35. The school fee is the bulk of it.

They generally send the fee waivers automatically, but sometimes it helps to ask for them. You can probably do that near the end of the summer, but research it a little. Googling law school application fee waivers and reading any old tls threads or reddit posts would probably be a good start.

I would apply to all the top 14 if I were you except maybe Cornell and Georgetown since both are a little less likely to give full tuition scholarships. Even if you don't want to go to Chicago you should still apply there for the negotiating leverage. Especially if you have ties, they are probably more likely to let you in and maybe give you a scholarship than comparable schools(since they will think they have a better shot of you actually attending). You could then ask pretty much any school other than HYS to match.

Your making a $150,000+ decision here so while you want to keep fees down you definitely don't want to give up any potential leverage.

There are optional essays that you should probably do over summer too. I know Michigan for example really cares about the optional essays. The NYU scholarships I mentioned also have optional essays. So did Stanford. Yale famously has the short(I think 250 word essay).

I would also recommend getting your recommenders lined up ahead of time and asking them before summer. One of mine took longer than expected which delayed my applications and sometimes being early which you clearly can helps.

General · Should I retake?

katrakkade441

Saturday, Mar 02 2019

@raymondrfang270 said:

Thanks @rominamogtaderi153! I retook in January and scored a 174, and I'm over the moon! I think I have a real shot at T14 schools, and a fair shot at T6 too! Maybe even a realistic shot at HYS?

Congratulations!

It sounds like you should have a shot at every school including HYS, though those are hard to predict.

Perhaps more importantly you ought to have a shot at some pretty nice scholarships at Top 14 schools. I wouldn't be surprised if your decision comes down to something like full ride or near full ride at Michigan, Virginia, Penn, Duke, or Northwestern vs. Acceptance with an excellent LRAP at Harvard, Stanford, or Yale.

You might have to wait until next cycle if you want a shot at the top CCN scholarships, but especially with your academic experience and public interest goals, NYUs named scholarships could definitely be an option.

General · Michigan 1L: Advice Based on 1 Semester in Law School

katrakkade441

Wednesday, Feb 20 2019

Update:

So, I found an unpaid public interest job. I don't want to go into too much detail about it because one of the best parts about this job is I don't have to decide whether or not to take it for several more months.

This is great because it lets me keep looking for other jobs while having a back up option I still would enjoy.

I'm also applying to some part time LSAT tutoring jobs for the summer in the area of the public interest job. That option either before or during law school is another excellent reason (other than maximizing the quality of your legal education and getting scholarships to minimize the cost) to spend a lot of time studying the for LSAT here and to practice by helping teach others for free.

Speaking of unpaid/low paid options, Michigan's clinics need people over the summer too. They take Michigan students first and then usually have extra openings and open up to other schools so they are a pretty safe option if you are worried about finding something. I know a few people who applied to them in case they don't get something soon. Interviews are next week though and after that you might have to make a decision so it can be a matter of whether you want to gamble and wait for something (you personally consider) better or jump on a good thing while you can.

According to the career advisors not too many people end up on the wrong side of waiting too long to lower their standards though. They say that apart from a couple students who are busy and in dual degree programs, everyone at Michigan gets some legal job(often unpaid) for their 1L summer which is what you need to keep pace with everyone else.

General · Michigan 1L: Advice Based on 1 Semester in Law School

katrakkade441

Wednesday, Feb 20 2019

@ezheng811oshun1 said:

Super use useful info in your comment above re $$ and jobs!

Michigan WL’d me, i’m gonna visit at the end of February!

If you private message me when you are coming, I would be happy to meet up if I can.

General · Michigan 1L: Advice Based on 1 Semester in Law School

katrakkade441

Sunday, Feb 10 2019

Everyone's job search is progressing. I know some people with summer clerkships, some with firm jobs lined up, and some of the more public interest dedicated students who already have that type of position lined up.

Most of us however, are moving on from applying to 1L firm sommer associate positions to unpaid public interest positions.

That makes it a good time to discuss summer financial aid.

I think Michigan's setup makes a lot of sense. There are competitive $6000 grants you can apply for if you commit to public interest. If not, everyone has access to a $4000 summer loan. The loan has to be paid back during your third year after your second summer, but is forgiven if you make little enough money over the two summers.

If you make less than $18,000 over the two summers you don't pay anything back. If you make $18,000 you pay back $2,000. There is then a sliding scale with you paying back all $4,000 if you make more than $20,000 over the two summers.

Since most Michigan students work big firm positions 2L summer, most of the loans are paid back. This enables them to keep running the program. They also have an even stronger incentive to help us get those positions.

However, if you decide to go into a public interest position the second summer (and probably for your career) then you don't have to pay it back even if you make a little money over the summer either in your public interest job or in some side-gig.

I'm nots ure what other schools do, but it is certainly worth looking into. Most 1L jobs are unpaid and since you need to get some legal experience during the summer that means there is a very significant chance you will be working without pay. That means you must either have your own savings, work part time at a paid job that is not law related, live on less than your full cost of attendance during the academic year(some schools inflate said number to help students do this) to save money for the summer, live with family, or rely on institutional support.

I'll probably be doing the last two if what I think are my most likely job opportunities pan out.

General · Michigan 1L: Advice Based on 1 Semester in Law School

katrakkade441

Sunday, Feb 10 2019

@acsimon699 said:

Realized I forgot to reply to this. Thanks so much for coming back @simonchin808 and sharing your experience.

I love these stories because they remind you that there is life after lsat and that it is only a test, which is something that gets lost in the frenzy of it.

Good luck this semester, you're gonna kill it. Imo, law school exams are a matter of grasping a new skill set, just like the lsat is. But that could just be my ignorance 😅. Be sure to come back and keep us updated 😁

I think you probably are right about the exams being a skill that is improvable like the LSAT. The difference is that you have exactly the same amount of time to improve the skill as everyone else and are trying similarly hard.

People don't generally put as much time and effort as they should into the LSAT which makes it a unique opportunity. Take advantage while you can.

General · Running a marathon - First semester of law school

katrakkade441

Sunday, Feb 10 2019

@vrendonvasquez562 said:

I'm debating whether I should run a marathon during my first semester of law school.

Is it feasible? Would it interfere with my grades? For those of you who have done it, how did you manage?

I'm a 1l and know someone in my class training for one in the summer. They don't seem like they are being bothered.

I haven't trained for anything on that scale before, but my sense is that with any exercise in law school it is important to make it part of your routine or it just sort of gets lost.

And whether it's the marathon or not some sort of routine exercise is probably healthy for you and will help keep your mind sharp.

General · Michigan 1L: Advice Based on 1 Semester in Law School

katrakkade441

Tuesday, Feb 05 2019

@stewjrickert818 said:

There is not much that makes me feel old, but threads with significant discussion of learning to type is one of them. I guess everyone did not take typing in high school, on actual type writers. Long live the 80s!

Most young people have the opposite reaction and are shocked someone could go so long in the modern world typing poorly and not having taken an effective typing class in elementary, middle, or high school.

Some of us just slip through the educational cracks and then stare at our hands the rest of our lives. But it's a pretty easy skill to pick up so we are not resigned to our fate.

General · Michigan 1L: Advice Based on 1 Semester in Law School

katrakkade441

Monday, Feb 04 2019

@shaw5563 said:

@simonchin808 Thank you so much for this valuable post! I also plan on learning to tough type efficiently for 0L prep. Do you mind sharing your practices/ any websites or tools that you utilized in order to grasp it well? Thank you again!

Sure. I bought a keyboard cover for my laptop and painted over the keys on it with black nail polish so I couldn't see the keys. It wears off eventually, but you can just repaint them on.

Then I used the free lessons at typingclub.com. After I hadthe keys generally down I used 10fastfingers and typeracer.

I also left the keyboard cover on whenever I typed anything although if something really important had come up early on, I always could have simply removed it.

This is the on aspect of my 0l prep that I think definitely was worthwhile. Even if it hadn't made a difference on exams it would still have been worth it. We are going to write a lot in the course of our lives.

LSAT · Help me understand this sentence please!

katrakkade441

Sunday, Feb 03 2019

"But the material costs of hung juries do not warrant losing the benefit to society of the unanimous verdict."

This might be the rare case where a tiny bit of outside knowledge or info from the rest of the passage is helpful.

Requiring a unanimous verdict causes more hung juries than requiring a majority or a supermajority of the jury because if even one juror disagrees with the rest, then the jury will be hung.

When a jury is hung in a criminal trial, there is a retrial unless the prosecution gives up or a plea deal is reached. Trials and retrials cost money which is bad for society(but good for lawyers :smiley: ).

The sentence is saying the benefits of requiring a unanimous verdict (probably mostly avoiding the prosecution of innocent people) are greater/more important than the material costs of paying for the retrials. Therefore, we should require unanimous verdicts.

General · Michigan 1L: Advice Based on 1 Semester in Law School

katrakkade441

Thursday, Jan 31 2019

@yifeiwang926 said:

@ezheng811oshun1 said:

I think the most important question is how are you surviving the polar vortex!!

Jesus you're right. lol. Things to consider before applying to Michigan

I'm a Michigan native so fine.

The university cancelled school here for two days and hadn't cancelled a day since 2015. I think they are just getting caught up in mass hysteria.

The days off are a nice break from readings, but is frustrating because we were supposed to have a Meet the Employers event where people from 60 firms came tonight. That is cancelled and will be hard to make up.