@ said:

I am currently a Masters student in Bioengineering with a BS in Chemistry (3.75 GPA). I have recently gotten some mixed opinions about the best way to get into Patent Law, and I'm really hoping I could get your advice/experience. I have heard that I should work as a scientist in the field and then go to law school once I have established myself with a company so as to increase my eligibility for an in-house position immediately following law school. I have also been told I should work as a patent agent for a few years after my MS instead and then go to law school.

My question is...How important do you think technical work experience is to law firms when hiring? Thanks in advance.

Hi there. I have a position at a law firm doing patent prosecution in life sciences, and was in your position not too long ago. I disagree with some of the advice you were given, and would like to offer my own thoughts which are the culmination of good advice I also received, and what I learned through my own experiences. Please understand this advice is related to working in patent prosecution, and not very relevant to working in patent litigation.

The most common route for working in patent prosecution, especially in life sciences, is to go directly from graduate school to an entry-level position at a law firm. Law firms need scientists with technical expertise to work in patent prosecution, and offer great experience and a foothold. The work you start doing is substantive patent prosecution, and there's no better way to get started.

Having work experience in industry doesn't hurt, but it certainly is not a requirement. I believe it would be less worthwhile for you to seek out an industry position if you intend to work in patent law, as you may need to accept a pay cut going from industry scientist back to a starting position to begin doing law, and there will be little to gain from delaying your progress in that way. I know plenty of people who did begin in industry, but usually because they only decided later to start in patent law.

I could be wrong here, but I don't think it is very common to land an in-house position as an IP attorney with no work experience in IP, regardless of having passed law school. Those positions are typically filled by attorneys with years of experience in firms who did not wish to continue onto partnership roles. Or at least someone with an IP background who can hit the ground running and do work for the company. It is understandable that companies will want to hire someone with a lot of expertise, and unlike law firms, companies don't usually have the resources or interest in hiring someone to be an in-house counsel who has no expertise and requires extensive training. The only exception may be large corporations with massive IP teams that function like small law firms themselves, who could afford to take you on, but I don't think that is commonplace.

Law school almost certainly is not required to begin in patent prosecution. I would strongly encourage you to consider working as a patent agent first (technically, you would begin as something below patent agent until you get your patent bar registration). First and foremost, law firms are often willing to pay your law school tuition. Secondly, while making a significant sacrifice to your free time, you will be earning a very good salary while doing law school, and should not be taking on any debt. As I mentioned above, the law degree itself is not really key to getting into patent prosecution, it's more of a means to an end once you are advancing in your career. The important aspect in the first few years is your technical background.

Happy to discuss in more detail if you like, but I don't want to make this comment incredibly long!

@ said:

Was the flagging questions function the same?

Yes, there is a flag toggle in the top right of the question, which you can select to place a flag over the question number shown down in the bottom.

@ said:

If you're taking it again, I found a life hack! My proctors handed out those screen cleaning wipes. After I used it on the screen, I laid it out under my tablet and it kept it from slipping. :smile:

I knew I should have requested one of those when they handed them out. I am hoping to never touch another LSAT tablet again, but that is a great tip, thanks!

@ said:

What does this mean -11?

Something like the number of questions wrong to get a 170 score.

https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/what-does-9-10-11-12-mean-when-talking-about-the-lsat-curve-/

Just want to say I was pleasantly surprised by the tablets. Perhaps I got quite lucky, but I did not experience any of the gripes many others reported with the tablet. It seemed brand new, easy to use, the angle was highly adjustable and the screen was responsive. My only very minor complaint is that it was so light that I had to grip it to avoid sliding around the desk, and every now and then I would accidentally highlight the wrong word due to not touching the right spot - something I experienced on my own tablet as often. I am also very happy that the LSAC test interface is almost identical to what I am used to from 7sage, it was a seamless transition to use it.

As you probably figured out, timing yourself is hugely important for studying. Now that you are doing PT timed, you will still have the opportunity to take a deeper dive and scrutinize questions during BR, without a timer. Getting 165+ untimed is a good start, but I'm not sure I would say that demonstrates a firm understanding. It may also indicate over confidence. Ideally, without a timer you should get close to 180 if you have an ironclad understanding of the question types and know how to avoid trap answers - and there's nothing stopping you from getting there with the right strategy to study. All that said, I'd keep on trucking and not set yourself up for disappointment in January.

I am from a country where people drive on the left. The import of American vehicles configured with the steering wheel on the left side is restrictive and expensive, to say the least. Basically, no one does it unless they're importing something like a '67 Shelby. It is not legal to drive any left-side steering wheel car. It is only legal if the car is a coupe or a convertible, and is considered a high-performance vehicle. It must have also been identified as a collector's item in a car magazine or the like, the make must be produced in less than 20,000 units.

Suffice to say, I took answer choice B as being an inherent fact rather than an assumption that is required, and went straight for D. Gotta put my biases aside..

Feigning interest in this passage was just not possible.

@ said:

do you have to pay for CAS before your transcripts are processed???

I didn't see a way to upload transcripts until I purchased CAS. To the best of my knowledge, most law schools require applications through CAS, so I don't believe there's any getting around it.

Happy with my November score, my first and only LSAT test. I got a 9 point increase from diagnostic after only about 2 months of reasonably light studying a few weeknights per week, and doing 5 PTs throughout November. Thanks 7sage!

@ said:

Can anyone tell me what the dimensions are for the scratch paper booklet you are given? It's it the standard letter size (8.5x11)? I want to make sure my diagramming isn't taking up too much space during the actual exam. Thanks!

I found there to be an abundance of scratch paper. It was an A4-sized booklet with several pages, I didn't count but I would guess at least 10 double sided leafs. I probably used about 5% of the space. My efforts to learn to write very small and compact were in vain, in the exam I felt like I could have written obnoxiously large diagrams and still had some breathing room. In fact someone near me was doing exactly that - literally dragging their pencil across entire pages like they were trying to cut the book in half. Not at all what I expected!

There's a little paperback very popular with lawyers and law students called "Plain English for Lawyers." I bought it, but still haven't got around to opening it. It's a short guide on how to write effective sentences, with little exercises at the end of each chapter. That could be something to tide you over if you are looking for study materials before law school, and I'm sure it would be very useful for when you begin writing a lot.

The LWI award states: “Plain English for Lawyers … has become a classic. Perhaps no single work has done more to improve the writing of lawyers and law students and to promote the modern trend toward a clear, plain style of legal writing.”

“[P]robably the most popular legal text today…” — The New York Times, on an earlier edition

“[A] survival kit for the profession. It should be on every lawyer's desk.” — New Jersey Lawyer, on an earlier edition

Aside from studying, I'd suggest you make the most of your freedom.

I chose B under timed conditions and changed to C in blind review. JY almost describes how it would be a correct answer choice, but effectively says "but it's not right because B is right" which doesn't satisfy my confusion here. I am probably in the weeds too much and would love someone to shine some light on this.

To be hyperbolic, say that 3 billion people read this newspaper - we have no reason to assume otherwise - then a sample of 1000 is not an accurate reflection on "a great number of this newspapers readers." If you are going to invoke the outcome of a survey in your argument, you can't ignore fundamental statistics like sample size and confidence intervals. If the survey was flawed it this way, it would render any question about how many of those surveyed picked 1984 moot. But we just don't know how many were sampled, and therefore don't know how valid this argument which draws from the survey is... and without knowing the answer to C - the question posed in B could be irrelevant, and less helpful to ask. #help

Thanks for your responses, all. I guess one month is not unheard of so I'll remain patient.

@ said:

Expect longer time in case LSAC come back and point any concern to your file. Mine took about a month due to an false error that LSAC put in my file but later one cleared out themselves.

Oh I hope not. What kind of error if you don't mind me asking?

@ said:

Sorry if I'm asking a dumb question but just a bit confused here. Since you have your LLM and passed the bar, I'm assuming you already have your JD. So why are you studying for the LSAT?

Also type "7sage predictor" on google and you can see what your chances are with those stats. "Law school numbers" is another good site

My understanding is that you can sit the bar in certain states with only an LLM (and not a JD). It sounds like OP obtained an LLM degree from a top 14 school, and passed the bar in one of those states. It is not required to sit the LSAT to do an LLM. However, now OP wishes to get their JD from a top 14 school, and is required to take the LSAT.

I agree that OP should play around with the law school predictor on the 7sage admission site. I think they would need to aim for the highest possible LSAT score (in excess of 175) with only 3.1 GPA, unless URM. I am no admissions guru, but I could only assume that having passed the bar already would reflect well on an applicant, and would be worth highlighting in personal essay.

You can use the "familiarize yourself" page on the LSAC website prior to doing test if you are concerned about timing, that will ensure your laptop is up to the task and let you see how long it takes to get set up. I did that to install the software and make sure I wouldn't run into any issues - which I did, and resolved.

I did the test at home, and it was really a nothing ordeal. The photo ID verification takes 10 seconds (literally take a photo of your ID with a webcam), same with face ID. Room scan took less than 1 minute. I doubt I spent more than 40 minutes from the point of sitting down to take the test until finishing.

If I am faced with an LG I just cannot work out, I plan to take a few deep breaths, take educated guesses (or even wild guesses if it comes to it) and move on with the test. If my score is not adequate due to failing the LG section I will retake.

> @ said:

> Wow!!! Congrats! That is a dream scenario. I'm 32 and work at a law firm as a paralegal. I absolutely love my job but I'm excited to continue along this career path. The law firm I work for is definitely not offering anything other than kudos and letters of recommendation (which I still greatly appreciate), so good on you not taking such a great opportunity for granted :) Taking the LSAT in January and *hoping* to get in somewhere fall 2020, but plan to reapply the following cycle if needed.

Thank you! I'm scheduled to take the LSAT in November, and plan to retake in January if my score is too low. Good luck with your studies and application!

I'm struggling to understand why E is such a wrong choice for Q17. Phenomenon: "an observable fact or event." Just like lightning, couldn't the non-written autobiographical culture of Native Americans be considered a phenomenon, particularly to scholars in the field? In that vein, wouldn't listing decorated shields and teepees be considered enumerating specific instances of said phenomenon?

#help (Added by Admin)

I did 5 PTs in the month before taking the LSAT, and for better or worse, my scores were very consistent (within 1 point of each other). So I was pretty happy that my real test score was higher than all my PTs (by 1 point). I can't say there was any obvious trick to not dropping on the test day, and maybe it was a fluke, but I did have a plan to replicate test conditions while I studied, which I like to think is why I succeeded in at least in getting higher than my PT score.

To that end, I did all my PTs at a desk with an eraser, pencil, sheet of paper, and using 7sage on a tablet (which is very close to the real thing). I skipped questions if they felt like they were going to drain time or if they made panic creep in, just as though I was in a test. They're always a bit easier on a second pass. I also kept an eye on an analog watch, which made me feel a little more grounded than using the digital timer.

It's not possible to 'not be nervous' on the day, and I was hyperventilating while waiting outside the room. Since I had exposed myself to test conditions repeatedly, I just had to keep reminding myself that the real test was not going to be any different to what I'd done at home, to keep myself relatively in my head. Once I was in the room and they finally let us begin, I just carried on like it was another PT, forgot about my nerves, and got a score that was slightly better than what I expected.

@ said:

@ Thank you for your advice! I am pretty much set on getting some kind of work experience before law school and was hoping to be told industry experience isn't all that necessary. I was/am leaning toward working as a patent agent and getting experience that way, so I'm glad you were able to corroborate that for me! Thanks again.

Very happy to help. Feel free to message me if you want any additional info.

@ said:

Right now I'm dealing with a small problem regarding my Letter of Recommendation. One of my former employers forgot to add anecdotal info to my letter and I'm unsure about how I should tell him he needs to improve the letter. If anyone has any advice, I'm all ears and would appreciate it.

I'm curious to know how you knew what the former employer wrote? Did you sumbit through CAS and waive your rights to access? Is it possible for you to get another recommender instead? If I were you, I'd consider getting another recommender and also waiving your rights, if you didn't already. Unless you are on very good terms with the former employer, I'm not sure how you could ask them nicely to improve their letter, and you probably shouldn't burn any bridges in the process. Also, this kind of massaging of letters between candidate and recommender is the main reason why blind letters are viewed more favorably by law schools.

12:30pm writing? Isn't the writing portion something you can complete in your own time? I'm just asking in case I am unaware that I'm also meant to be preparing for writing in 2 weeks!

31 year old here. I work for a law firm who are generous enough to put up tuition for me, I would be a fool to not take the opportunity! Never thought of myself as an old timer, I prefer to think I'm just very wise.

JY's explanation of why B is wrong is not very clear and he kind of glossed over it, and I would appreciate if anyone could provide a bit more detail. JY seems to strike the answer out on the ground that there is not two species in the stimulus. But the stimulus very clearly describes two species, humans (Homo sapiens) and prehistoric species (A. afarensis). I felt like B was the wrong choice for at least the reason that it suggests a characteristic (coping) belonging to both species was taken for granted. But it is explicit that both species have that characteristic, so it is not being taken for granted (?)

#help

admin. note: added #help