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Related Discussions
7Sage Results on Retake
Victoria14
Alum Member
Hi everyone,
So i'm thoroughly into 7sage now and i'm really feeling like this program is changing the way I originally thought about this test. I took the June exam and got a 154. It was a 10 point increase from my cold and I just self studied with the Powerscore books. I really didn't do that many prep-tests (I think maybe 3-4 in total). I knew I was underprepared.
Now that i'm getting in to this course, which I fully intend on finishing, I'm beginning to wonder who all has been in my shoes before. If anyone has ever done a retake after doing 7sage for the first time, would you mind sharing what type of change in results you experienced? Was it a small jump? A big jump? Did you feel more prepared for the exam? I'm trying to crack 160 with everything in me and i'm putting in as many hours as I can squeeze in to a day and not burn out.
Also if any 160+ people have any tips for cracking 160, please help a sister out!
Thanks everyone!
Comments
Can I ask what your section break down looks like? Lr/lg/RC?
Sure! The one 7sage had me do was 153. Without blind review it was:
LG - 6
LR -10
LR - 9
RC - 10
Well, it's widely held that LG are the easiest to improve on. I would look into 7Sage's foolproof method. If you can gain some points there you'll push yourself up to the higher 150's. I'd then look to see which kind of LR questions are getting you. You probably can nail a few types down and see some gains in that area as well.
That would be what I do to start. Keep an eye on your analytics.
I believe if I really worked at it, I could get my LG's to -2 and bellow. I just make silly mistakes sometimes or leave them behind because i'm worried about time. I do have a question, if i'm working the program should I be doing a weekly timed PT or something? Or should I just follow the program until it introduces a PT?
Depends on your timeline. I really recommend following the CC the way it is set up. The logic sort of builds on itself. Once you have the lessons under your belt then I would start with PT's.
If you are taking the September test, I would defiantly try and take a few more PT's before test day. It can give you a good idea of where you are.
Don't forget to blind review, and explain why answers are right, and wrong. This is how you'll learn what trick answers look like and you'll really start to get a feel for the test.
Thank you so much! I'm trying for September, so I think i'm going to try to squeeze in a PT once a week until I hit PTs after the lessons. Thank you for everything!
At this point, it would be really beneficial to try and shave at least 4 marks off of your LRs. One way is to always make sure you understand argument structure of the stimulus and also how the question stem relates to the stimulus. In your drilling, really focus on that. In fact, along with full proofing for LG, I would substitute doing timed sections of LRs alone (on top of your drilling) in succession and BR them as well. Doing this and really focusing on the questions: which is the conclusion? Which are the premises? How are the supposed to be related? What does the question stem ask and how does it relate to the argument structure? Given this, is there anything that come to mind about what an answer might look like? Etc. I think that the first two questions are the most important and that you should get really good at being able to answer those. There might be other mistakes you're making--like falling for trap answer choices--but those are the biggest. I think if you do that for a couple weeks, then when u got to PT, you'll at least be seeing more -6---4 instead of around -10. These are simply scores that you cannot afford to get on two LR sections and expect to pull off a 160. It is also a chance to really improve your score--think about it, if you moved from averaging minus 10 to minus 6 on LR, that means that (or should mean that) you stand to make an 8 point improvement on the full PTs, which is huge. That's more than getting your minus 6 avg for the LG to -2--something that is a quite impressive improvement for that section. Anyways, just my thoughts on cracking 160. Good luck with journey there!
I didn't retake, but I started off with Powerscore for the first month I studied without feeling like I was making much progress. I've definitely been in your shoes wrt the way you're feeling. BTW, That 10 point increase is great with just a few tests and the PS books, but I am happy to hear that you're retaking and using 7Sage!
My experience with 7Sage was an immediate jump in my understanding of conditional logic. Believe it or not, even as a philosophy minor, I believe it didn't help me all that much even though I learned some pretty advanced logic. 7Sage/JY finally broke it down and explained it in a way that I could understand, conceptualize and apply almost immediately to increase my score in LR. If you look back at my first posts I was missing around -7 on LR when I began 7Sage. After a month it was down to -4/-3 and now I've only gotten better.
With LG, my experience was literally immediate.... For some reason I couldn't figure out grouping games with the Bibles or any other books. Once again, 7Sage's logic lessons paired with JY's techniques of simple and intuitive diagramming lead me to having several breakthroughs during my first few weeks using even. To be honest, the free LG videos are why I signed up to begin with.
All in all, 7Sage has lead to me jumping from the low 150s to the mid 160s. And I'll be honest, I've had relatively little time to dedicate due to working. So it's been huge for me to have everything I need conveniently on my laptop. It allows me to do what I can during my lunch breaks at work and during commutes.
I absolutely feel more ready for the test. Before 7Sage I resigned to the fact that the highest score I'd ever get is a 165. Now I'm not stopping until I hit a 170+
I actually think this community is the most supportive SLAT community on the internet and that manifests in tons of people making great choices to retake and aim for their highest potential.
A 160 is completely possible for you to hit. Tips? Well there's no shortcuts on this test, but I'll say this much:
1) Get your LG down as close to a -0 as you can. It's all about repetition. Utilize the fool proof method, even if at times it can seem like you're never going to get it to get it. I can promise anyone with a college education that you can figure out these games through JY's video explanations and repetition. All you have to do is put in the time and learn to diagram properly.
2) I think LR skills come with exposure and good foundational conditional logic. You can't just get away with knowing the logic. You have to really develop and understanding. I found I was memorizing the logic I needed to know like I was studying for one of my undergrad Philosophy tests. The only thing was, on the test, we didn't really have to apply the logic in the same way. Mostly just explain it. So get your conditional logic down. The lessons on here are the best I've come across.
3) RC I think all comes down to short term memory, learning to trust it, and understanding that there are only so many ways the test makers can trick you. I could write 20 pages on RC alone and what I've discovered about this section. I've put my trust in the memory method and it's worked for me.
Lastly, watch the Webinars on Skipping Strategies and Post Curriculum Study Strategies. https://7sage.com/webinar/
A 160 just means you can get 27 wrong out of a 101 question test. You can do it! Get LR down to at least -4/-5 per section, LG to -3/4, and RC down to -7. There's a ~163 right there. So you can even account for a few misses on test day.
Good luck!
That's the last section I have not been able to crack, and the one section I felt the most confident in when I started my prep. After spending more time than I'd like to admit studying the LSAT, I like to think RC is the most bullsh*t part (to think there was a time when I thought that about LG! HA!) even if it's just a bad way to console myself
We need those 20 pages! I know I can't be the only one who would benefit.
Haha A lot of it would just be me summarizing JY's curriculum on the memory method; I truly believe that memory is the sine qua non behind unlocking RC. Also, I oddly started off strong on RC and don't necessarily think the new passages are harder. Don't let the new passages demoralize you... the BS part are just the same old tricks disguised similar to LR.
Even though I feel strong with RC, I honestly never feel as confident as I do with LG because it's just less formulaic. So once I got out of my own way, and realized I would never feel quite the same because I couldn't "prove out" the answer choice, I started to gain a new perspective and that is definitely realizing that there are only a limited number of ways the LSAC can make something you just read and which you have right in front of you "hard" to answer questions on.
It's simple; they have to make the wrong answers look right. How do they do that? They use similar language to make it seem familiar, and change a word to gimp it up. So I go in armed knowing that these traps are all over and that right there probably netted me a few points. I'm extremely skeptical when I see quantifiers and strong language. Especially when I'm down to 2 answer choices.
I also now keep in my mind all the questions that they are likely to ask about. As I read, I'm actively thinking about the most common questions. Main point/authors viewpoint on X. At the very least, I should be keeping these things in mind anyway, so even if the questions don't come up for that particular passage, I'm keeping the right things in mind as I read. In short, I'm reading with a purpose not just "oh, here's another passage. Let me check it out!"
Lastly, don't get bored or zone out... even for a freakin' second. They want you to get bored which is why the passages are about sand art and not Kylie Jenner; they know you don't care about the damn sand art, lmao. Stay engaged. There's also just something to reading a lot. I read all day at work, read for fun, and always loved books. It's not something you can change, but actually liking to read just makes it less of an annoyance and more of a fun challenge. Where else do you get to learn so much about stuff I'd never know or care about? At the very least you can trick your brain into caring....
I don't think I'm on to anything new here, which is why I don't write the 20 pages, haha. I truly wish I could be more insightful but nothing is going to beat going through the CC and doing passages.
If you have any specific questions on how to approach certain things, I'd be happy to help in any way I can.
ETA: I also find that people just like going RC less, so they improve less. Think of all the man hours put into getting LG down; thousands? We think because we already know how to read that this section doesn't deserve it's due respect. So some of it is just that we don't drill RC as much or like we should.
I was thinking along the same lines! I really want to bring my LR and RC up. I figured that would be most of my battle going in to this second go round. My LGs I can get to -2 with some work, so I think that's something I can address easily. I've done it before, I just had a bad game this go round due to distractions (moral of the story, I need to test outside of my apartment because kittens don't get the LSAT). I really appreciate this! I like that you gave me goals!
No problem.--I also looked back at this and saw that you are at about -10 on RC. For my money, that will improve just through trial and error drilling reading comp sections (because you get faster at going through passages and answering particular sorts of question types, thus leaving a bit more time to look back at the passage on detail questions, etc.). Still, I would say that that might only improve your score on the section by -2 or -3 from where you're at. After that, like @"Alex Divine" said, the memory method is probably the best bet. [I personally haven't really done it because I'm at about -3 to -1 on RC and think that my issues lie with timing--there's usually one passage where I take considerably longer than the 8:45 or so allotted avg--which really squeezes the time I can spend on the other passages. My impression is that the memory method only indirectly assists with this problem].
A good general goal is to aim for getting all your sections to @ -5; that way, there's no way that you'll lose 6 or more points off that score come test day. That means that your test day will be really stress free(...er). Cheers--A.c.S
Your a boss.
You are .... awesome for saying that
I hope some of that can help, haha. Just stay confident and remember, you've got this!
You can for sure improve to a 160+. I've been in your shoes for a long time, so I know how it feels to not do so well and want better. What I did was focus HEAVILY on LR since it is half of the test. You want to be very very very strong in LR because it is half of your score. Go through the CC LR stuff and drill each question type that you go through right after doing its lessons. Don't leave RC aside though, do it once in a while so that you don't completely get screwed with that section. So do RC in between LR and LG lessons/drills as well for sure. Regarding LG, it is in fact the most learnable section of the test. 7sage is extremely well known and respected for their LG content. I personally didn't do the CC LG stuff, I just watched their free vids before I bought a package, but I highly recommend you go through the CC LG stuff! With enough LG practice, a -0 is definitely possible! I can't offer much about RC since it's my weakest section besides just drilling a ton of passages and realizing what methods work for you and which don't.
As a small side note of encouragement though: my cold score, if I remember correctly, was slightly lower than yours and I just recently scored a 170 on a PT. So there's some encouragement, I hope (:
Best of luck!
Seriously, I need to hear it's possible to claw my way up. I'm going through the CC and trying to really let everything sink in. I'm even taking notes and making flashcards trying to retain this stuff. LR is my main focus right now, but i'm going to keep trying to incorporate RC and see if I can naturally improve just with practice. What is sad is my cold RC was higher then my PT RC's these days. I think i'm just overthinking! Thank you so much!
I should not be allowed to type comments after a certain hour in the evening.
You're*
Also, thank you so much for your comments!
What did you find works best for you while studying & how long have u been studying for. I just started studying for the LSAT about two weeks ago and i've been learning the basics and different question types and doing questions. & what exactly does "drilling" mean?
what exactly does "drilling" mean?
Essentially it is ingraining skills and knowledge into habits and memory.
For example, the CC has valid/invalid concepts that are critical to understanding correct answer choices and wrong answer choices. So knowing those concepts and committing them to memory is helpful to learning the test. Also, there are quizs included in the CC that will help with getting used to those concepts.
For Logic Games drilling is doing different games over and over under time to make Logic games a habit.
Other drills could be the flashcards they have where you just essentially practice how to react and recognize logical indicators to assist with "logic translations"
In sum, it is not enough to just learn concepts, but to commit them to habit and memory through various types of drilling, or drills.
Drilling, for the most part, means doing a question type in bulk (LR). So you would do a big bulk of flaw questions after doing some type of lesson on that question type. Or you would do a bunch of logic games that are the same type, or maybe even a bunch of RC passages that are the same subject matter. It slightly changes depending on who is doing the drilling, like you can drill a full LR section if you want and can say it was drilling.
Idk, I've been studying for more than a year and a half already and what I just did was do stuff honestly. You just really need to put the work in, there are no silver bullets besides I guess little tricks and tips, but it takes a lot of practice and that is how you will improve. I know it's not what people want to hear, it def wasn't what I wanted to hear when I started lol, but it is going to take a lot of work and time if you want to see improvements.
You're situation sounds very similar to mine. Although I didn't take the official LSAT in June, the couple practice tests I took during that time period all put me at the 154 mark. I'm using both PowerScore and 7Sage to self study and I found perfecting Logic Games was the easiest way to break 160. Not to hate on 7Sage, because I do think it's the best tool available, but PowerScore does just fine at explaining LG. After going through the Logic Game Bible with PowerScore and taking ~3 PTs, I used 7Sage and watched their videos on how they solved the problems and made note of where 7Sage differed from PowerScore and now I get perfect scores on LG sections or -1 if I run out of time after skipping an especially time consuming question. Additionally, I think some of the most basic advice both 7Sage and PowerScore supply can be applied to RC, i.e. try skipping the middle two games/passages, do the first and last, pick the middle game/passage with the most questions to minimize the chances if you tend to run out of time also bumped up my RC a couple points. I think the biggest place to make strides is committing yourself to the 8:45 time limit and drilling that into your brain.
Anyway, that was the advice of someone with little to no experience, but it worked for me. Good luck!
No problem!
Haha, same. I'm sure every email/test/post I send after 12am has multiple typos. C'est la vie ....
Hey! So I totally agree. The Powerscores LG Bible was more then enough education on 95% of the games for me. I went from missing -17 to -20 because I could never get through the first game to routinely less then -6 and frequently -2. Normally those were questions I ran out of time on or I left behind due to time crunch. I'm going to try improve LR and RC at the moment and just try to maintain my LG skills! Thank you so much for the advice!
I took the June 2017 test and got 154. I began this program early July and had just finished the core curriculum. Did my first PT today and got a 160! I have two months to push for a couple more points. I think you can totally break 160!
154 diagnostic, 166 on my first take in December, 174 on my second take in June. 7sage was critical in getting me above the 170 mark; I'd used powerscore until around November 2016. Huge improvements are absolutely possible with dedicated study.